Could i sue?

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Yorkie,

I am sure what you have written is true reflection of your side of the story and it makes for a very sorry tale of woe.

Unfortunately as none of us on the forum have access to all the papers and the details of what happened etc, it is very unlikely that any of can offer accurate advice given the circumstances of the case.

There are more theories than answers.
The only accurate advice I can give is to engage a solicitor to whom you can show all the papers and allow them to advise you professionally.

 

[Lutz]

Perhaps someone can fill me in how such a thing can happen, because, being on the Continent, I have difficulty in understanding it. As caravans over here are registered, the registration document is at the same time title to ownership. So, even if there is an invoice stating that one has purchased the caravan, so long as you don't have the registration document, it's not yours. HP companies will withhold the document so long as payments are still outstanding. I know that caravans are not registered in the UK, but is there no equivalent procedure as a safeguard?

 

[DerektheSecond]

If someone "knowingly"sells an item they do not own or lay claim to thats fraud, if its a trader/buisness that sells the item then there are even more safe guards in place for the buyer, if bailifs remove an item without the proper signed and approved paperwork, bearing in mind that the evedence submitted to get that paperwork must be legal and truthfull then that is straight theft with the possibility of a more serious crime.
With regards to the storage owners then thats a civil matter, in Scotland Fraud and Theft are crimes at common law in England I beleive the crimes are the same but they are classed as offences.
In Scotland most recovery firms and even sheriffs officers would notify the local Police station of their intentions when forcing entry etc.

 

[Steve L]

Yorkie, you realy need to engage a solicitor on this to kick some ass at the police and your storage yard. It sounds like they know a lot more than they are letting on!

Having had experiance of the police and their reluctance to do anything at times, or own up to knowledge, a solicitor can become privy to that elusive information and take your case forward.

I experienced lack of co-operation when one of my dogs got out and was run over by what turned out to be an off duty CID officer who was on a special detatchment to the local police. Of coarse the old boys club closed ranks despite there being a 60ft skid mark on a 30Mph road and a dog that had got her rear leg ground off by the tyre. Ok, it was partly our fault for allowing the dog to escape our garden and at the time I was more interested in getting the dog to avet PDQ, which saved her life and she made a good recovery, living for another 5 years. I found out from a neighbor what make of car and a reg number but when I went to the police they did nothing. It was later when a friend of my dad's (the solicitor) made enquiries that the truth came out.

I think it would be most enlightening to us all if you can keep us informed of your progress Yorkie, and I do hope you get a satisfactory result from what is a strange situation to say the least.

Atb Steve L.

 

[Dustydog]

Yorkie
I assume you are insured? What do your Insurers have to say? What has the dealer said?
Did you complete the CRIS documentation at the time of purchase?

With all due respect the details you have given us on this thread are so scant it is extremely difficult to offer any constructive advice.

 

[NickinFrance]

I know that caravans are not registered in the UK, but is there no equivalent procedure as a safeguard?

No, the only system in the UK is the CRiS scheme mentioned but that is voluntary to have your caravan listed & costs for a buyer to make a check.
Likewise for cars, the UK Vehicle registration (V5c) only has the 'Registered Keeper' not the owner.
There is a check for cars called HPI which will show if there is finance owing, if the car has been stolen or written off in an accident but again this costs & I bet that most people don't bother when buying from a reputable dealer, I haven't.

 

[NickinFrance]

if bailiffs remove an item without the proper signed and approved paperwork, bearing in mind that the evidence submitted to get that paperwork must be legal and truthfully

In my experience, Bailiffs & vehicle repossession companies are not normally one & the same.
Again, in my experience, all a vehicle repossession company needs is a signed form saying that you are the owner & that you authorise them to recover the vehicle.

 

[Soozeeg]

I can't understand the Police only saying it's a civil matter.......unless you haven't given them the whole story? Do they know, for example, that the caravan had your possessions in it, or that the hitchlock/wheel clamp (if you had them fitted - did you?) were presumably broken off? And have you had any paperwork from the repo firm? Have you been in contact with them? You still haven't said how they knew where the caravan was kept.

 

[JohnKS]

I love these type of topics. All the amateur legal beagles come out of the woodwork with solutions. As there has been insufficient information posted on this problem, which, I agree, is a bit fishy, nobody can draw any conclusions or offer advice.
See a solicitor and ignore all other solutions.

 

[LMH]

I love these type of topics. All the amateur legal beagles come out of the woodwork with solutions. As there has been insufficient information posted on this problem, which, I agree, is a bit fishy, nobody can draw any conclusions or offer advice.
See a solicitor and ignore all other solutions.

BRAVO!!

That's just what I was thinking.

Lisa

 

[Soozeeg]

Indeed. But as Yorkie started this subject off, and has barely come back since with very little further information, everyone's bound to speculate. Let's face it, we all want to know what exactly happened.

 

[JonnyG]

Interesting one johnKS, shall we expand this,and add to the list of things to be Ignored. Any opinion on Any topic on caravans if you don't actually build them or work closely in that industry. Any topics on towcars unless you are an expert on mechanical engineering or sorts.Any topics on camp-sites unless you own and run one!Indeed anyone's opinion on anything unless you are an authority on the subject in question

"Bravo" indeed I call that killing a forum

 

[LMH]

Of course we all want to know more but given Yorkie's sparse replies, then I don't think that will be forthcoming, well perhaps he may elaborate later.

If this is all true, then I guess he's worried to death. I think he needs to get legal help asap.

Lisa

 

[Parksy]

I love these type of topics. All the amateur legal beagles come out of the woodwork with solutions. As there has been insufficient information posted on this problem, which, I agree, is a bit fishy, nobody can draw any conclusions or offer advice.
See a solicitor and ignore all other solutions.

I think that if you read through the topic you'll find that most of the posts are trying to find out the circumstances surrounding what actually happened. The very first line of the topic read:

'To cut a long story short, Bought a NEW caravan from a repretable [sic] caravan dealer'

Yorkie decided to bring this topic into the public domain and if the very few facts that he has revealed on the forum are accurate it's hardly surprising that most forum members would be interested and curious.
Yorkie should seek legal advice but it doesn't stop forum members from discussing the issue, if you don't wish to take part in the dscussion, fine, then dont but don't start casting aspersions about those who do.

 

[LMH]

I experienced lack of co-operation when one of my dogs got out and was run over by what turned out to be an off duty CID officer who was on a special detatchment to the local police. Of coarse the old boys club closed ranks despite there being a 60ft skid mark on a 30Mph road and a dog that had got her rear leg ground off by the tyre. Ok, it was partly our fault for allowing the dog to escape our garden and at the time I was more interested in getting the dog to avet PDQ, which saved her life and she made a good recovery, living for another 5 years. I found out from a neighbor what make of car and a reg number but when I went to the police they did nothing. It was later when a friend of my dad's (the solicitor) made enquiries that the truth came out.

I'm being really good today, I'm not going to comment on this at all Steve.........

Lisa

 

[JonnyG]

Yorkie. A bit of advice regardless of who you get in contact with or if you use solicitors.
Write to both the company who sold you the van, and if you do find out who took the van write to them to telling of your grievances and in both letter explain if/when you do need to use solicitors their costs will effect your claim. this could be important as people do not realise the costs that can be involved,and can effect your claim. I would assume the claim for belongings left in caravan could be sorted under the small claims court and citizens advice should be your first port of call for that one. if you do not get a decent response from the party in question.Any letters you write to them,keep a copy, send them registered post as well.If you do go to the solicitors, make it clear to them as well that your claim amount is subject to low fees otherwise a solicitor talking to you over the phone a few times and writing a few letters can get to a bill of £2000. keep a record of all the dog work you do, this is to stop your nice solicitor from claiming on their bill to do more than they have.
This is a relatively worse case scenario, but be warned and on guard otherwise your payout if any could be halved once your solicitors are finished with you

 

[Philspadders]

" a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing"
i have some corkers on here about baliffs and reposession..

one fella wrote some software for a bailiffs company and is now an expert on repossession law.

I know a court appointed bailiff..... see the first line my post.

Wow.

 

[JohnKS]

JonnyG and Parksy
Point completely missed I am afraid.
As far as I know there is nobody contributing to this particular topic qualified to give any legal advice to the poster who hasn't given sufficient inormation. Correct legal advice costs money!!!
Experienced advice on caravannning is fine and you take the advice on a forum or you leave it. Offering legal advice is a totally different ball game.
Again I say consult a solicitor or the citizens advice bureau.

 

[Parksy]

Rather than me missing the point about the dispensation of advive, legal or otherwise, I rather think that you John are missing the point of what forums are and what they do.
Nobody from what I can see has claimed to be 'qualified to give any legal advice' although some of those who have submitted posts have claimed expertise or experience in certain areas. It's up to Yorkie to decide how much credence to place on advice offered but if you read the thread in the title line of the topic Yorkie asks ' Could I Sue?'

He has asked the question, why would he ask the question if he was not inviting advice or comment?

Yorkie should know that the only place where he will receive the necessary legal advice to allow him to pursue a claim is from a solicitor or a legally qualified person or body, he has been advised of this repeatedly throughout the course of this thread.

Forum members offer advice or comment according to their own experiences more often than not and harsh though it may seem, if Yorkie was not seeking advice, comment or discussion then why write about the situation and ask if he could (or should) take legal action on a public caravan forum?

You have reiterated what was written previously, that Yorkie should consult a solicitor or qualified legal advisor such as the C.A.B. but this will not prevent forum members from discussing the situation whether you agree with what they write or not.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello JohnKS,
It is a common failing of all forums where anonymity is afforded by the site, that you cannot actually trust 100% what anyone says they are, including me, so no one should take advice from a a forum like this without having some other way of checking the validity of any claims or assertions, or being prepared to accept that some advice may be wrong.

For that reason i fully concur with you that Yorkie should seek professional legal advice.

 

[NickinFrance]

one fella wrote some software for a bailiffs company and is now an expert on repossession law.

If you can read, read what I said:
But having:
...
Employed a repossession company to recover a car for me
Written software for bailiffs that churns out very carefully worded, extremely legal looking but meaningless documents.
I have some idea how these companies work in practise.
And having worked in bailiff offices for a couple of years, I know some of the tricks they get up to.
I have never claimed to be an expert in repossession law, just corrected comments others have made.
And, of course, Yorkie should get good legal representation (if he already hasn't done so), that pretty much goes without saying.

 

[Surfer]

Sounds very strange as the caravan shoul thave had at the very least wheelclamps and hitchlock on it. Repossesion order or not, if ti was a repossesion company they would have been notified by the HP company who should have notified the new owner that the caravan had an outstanding loan on it.. If a third has been paid on the caravan a court order is required to remove the caravan.
I agree with most posters that something does not seem right and that there are too many gaps and very sparse info from Yorkie. Maybe Yorkie was in arrears which si why the caravanb has been repossessed!
If it is all genuine then a case needs to opended against the dealer.
BTW if this is genuine, it is not a civil matter in this case and the police should have taken action as in essence the caravan has been stolen. The police are too ready to deny responsibility if they think they can palm it off as a civil matter.

 

[Soozeeg]

As I said in a previous post, perhaps the police haven't been told the full story. Again, as has been said, we're all just speculating in the absence of any further information from Yorkie, who seems somewhat reluctant to provide anything further or to answer questions. Who knows, he might now be kicking himself for starting this topic off. Whatever the truth of the matter, I hope it's resolved to his satisfaction. And I hope we find out what happened!

 

[Dustydog]

Hello JohnKS,
It is a common failing of all forums where anonymity is afforded by the site, that you cannot actually trust 100% what anyone says they are, including me, so no one should take advice from a a forum like this without having some other way of checking the validity of any claims or assertions, or being prepared to accept that some advice may be wrong.

For that reason i fully concur with you that Yorkie should seek professional legal advice.

Prof John and John KS
All of us who have posted so far, have concluded Yorkie needs the services of a good solicitor.

Unfortunately Yorkie has NOT given any of us a sensible , intelligent explanation, sequence of events etc as they actually happened.

However , if Yorkie is insured and is making a claim he must do nothing without his Insurers full approval. Firstly he needs to get his Insurers to accept policy liability. If they do accept, fingers crossed, then there is aboslutely no need for Yorkie to employ a solicitor. Under the Law of Subrogation , the Insurers will persue any recovery against any party whom they deem to be liable but using Yorkie's name as the Plaintiff.
Conversely if there is no insurance or the Insurers refuse him an indemnity then yes , go for the Solicitor option.

Come on Yorkie , please give us more detail without mentioning names.

 

[Parksy]

Unfortunately Yorkie has NOT given any of us a sensible , intelligent explanation, sequence of events etc as they actually happened.

Obviously this situation is terrible for Yorkie, perhaps when he can sort things out in his own mind he will let us know more.
From what he DID tell us:

To cut a long story short, Bought a NEW caravan from a repretable caravan dealer, But it was not theres to sell as it still had HP on it, I know i should have done a CRIS check on it but with it been NEW i thought it was OK, Anyway im now sueing the trader.

It would appear that the trader may not have actually owned the caravan, it was advertised and invoiced to Yorkie as being new but this is clearly not the case. Yorkie appears to have been misled, he believed the caravan to be new as he wrote:

Yes it stated new on the invoice & you could tell it was brand new even down to the toilet in carboard under a seat, Plastic coating still on the windows etc.

'the toilet in carboard under a seat', hmm, why would the toilet be under a seat? Was the caravan a continental model with no fitted toilet?

What puzzles me is Yorkie's statement:

A guy wanted to buy it so he had a engineer down to go over it & also a CRIS check thats when it all came to light, The report came back as HP owing on it so i guess he contacted the HP company and bingo......

Was the 'guy' considering buying it from Yorkie or from the dealer before Yorkies involvement?
The prospective buyer who had the CRiS check and the engineers inspection was obviously aware that this caravan wasn't brand new.