Covid outbreak associated with G7

[Parksy]

In anticipation of today’s much heralded ( and leaked) announcement.

View attachment 1710

I wonder how many other 'variants' are lurking, ready to keep us locked down or under some form of restriction?
We have to learn to live with Covid in it's various forms, it will be with us forever.
As we are about to discover, it can be difficult to claim back the freedoms we took for granted after they have been taken away by government.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
We have to learn to live with Covid in it's various forms, it will be with us forever.
...

I made that point over year ago.

And it has always been my understanding that as long as the virus is around it will continue to mutate and find easier routes to infect - That is what one of the factors that drove Darwin to his conclusion about "Survival of the Species"

The only way to defeat the virus is to remove all possible routes for transmission, that's 100% isolation of the infected, and or 100% vaccination. And we will never achieve either, becasue there some block heads who do not or will not understand the way a virus works and they think their actions won't matter or affect others.

We currently are not vaccinating some groups for medical reasons, unfortunately those few if they do get infected are likely to have immune deficiencies that enable the virus to collect more DNA/RNA patterns and use them to make themselves more transmissible, and or more infectious.

I am sure we will get to a point where we can consider this virus to be no more life threatening than the common cold or influenza, but we are along way off as yet.

Whilst we may be able to control what happens in the UK,, there are millions more people beyond our borders who will remain at risk at producing a more virulent strain.

 

[otherclive]

I made that point over year ago.

And it has always been my understanding that as long as the virus is around it will continue to mutate and find easier routes to infect - That is what one of the factors that drove Darwin to his conclusion about "Survival of the Species"

The only way to defeat the virus is to remove all possible routes for transmission, that's 100% isolation of the infected, and or 100% vaccination. And we will never achieve either, becasue there some block heads who do not or will not understand the way a virus works and they think their actions won't matter or affect others.

We currently are not vaccinating some groups for medical reasons, unfortunately those few if they do get infected are likely to have immune deficiencies that enable the virus to collect more DNA/RNA patterns and use them to make themselves more transmissible, and or more infectious.

I am sure we will get to a point where we can consider this virus to be no more life threatening than the common cold or influenza, but we are along way off as yet.

Whilst we may be able to control what happens in the UK,, there are millions more people beyond our borders who will remain at risk at producing a more virulent strain.

SARS and MERS have now gone under the radar without vaccines, but they were less infectious so easier to isolate outbreaks, but still there.

 

[Jcloughie]

SARS and MERS have now gone under the radar without vaccines, but they were less infectious so easier to isolate outbreaks, but still there.

The Bubonic Plague has not gone away. Even in America. But it is treatable with antibiotics.

John

 

[Buckman]

They managed to eradicate smallpox in 1978 with the last victim a person from Birmingham. Surely they can also eradicate Covid?

 

[Dustydog]

And we will never achieve either, becasue there some block heads who do not or will not understand the way a virus works and they think their actions won't matter or affect others.

Very true Prof,
maybe we should toughen up on the blockheads .I can’t say it on here but I bitterly resent the blockheads putting our NHS and general populace at risk. If it were down to me I know how I would deal with them😉😉

 

[otherclive]

They managed to eradicate smallpox in 1978 with the last victim a person from Birmingham. Surely they can also eradicate Covid?

The Birmingham death wasn’t a naturally occurring infection and was a result of a leak in the laboratory where she worked. Deja vu perhaps? The naturally occurring infections stopped a couple of years previously. But the Birmingham infection led to the eradication of laboratory stocks apart from one in the USA and one in Russia. Umph!

 

[Parksy]

And we will never achieve either, becasue there some block heads who do not or will not understand the way a virus works and they think their actions won't matter or affect others.

Very true Prof,
maybe we should toughen up on the blockheads .I can’t say it on here but I bitterly resent the blockheads putting our NHS and general populace at risk. If it were down to me I know how I would deal with them😉😉

Many of us have complied with government restrictions, even to the point whereby we avoided contact with close family members.
The government's own statistics suggest that those of us who were considered to be vulnerable have now received both doses of the anti Covid vaccine.
This vaccine either works or it doesn't.
It's supposed to be effective enough to keep recipients out of hospital if they catch Covid.
The blockheads who have refused the vaccine are in the minority in the UK.
If preventative treatment for Covid is refused, so be it.
Their refusal shouldn't affect those of us who have been vaccinated, so if they get Covid - tough.
We can't continue to live our lives under some form of constraint, and in economic terms further restrictions will be disastrous.

 

[GeorgeandAde]

Agree totally with the above 👍👍

 

[Beachball]

Many of us have complied with government restrictions, even to the point whereby we avoided contact with close family members.
The government's own statistics suggest that those of us who were considered to be vulnerable have now received both doses of the anti Covid vaccine.
This vaccine either works or it doesn't.
It's supposed to be effective enough to keep recipients out of hospital if they catch Covid.
The blockheads who have refused the vaccine are in the minority in the UK.
If preventative treatment for Covid is refused, so be it.
Their refusal shouldn't affect those of us who have been vaccinated, so if they get Covid - tough.
We can't continue to live our lives under some form of constraint, and in economic terms further restrictions will be disastrous.

Hi Parksy Totally in agreement

 

[ProfJohnL]

They managed to eradicate smallpox in 1978 with the last victim a person from Birmingham. Surely they can also eradicate Covid?

By the measures I have identified.

 

[otherclive]

Many of us have complied with government restrictions, even to the point whereby we avoided contact with close family members.
The government's own statistics suggest that those of us who were considered to be vulnerable have now received both doses of the anti Covid vaccine.
This vaccine either works or it doesn't.
It's supposed to be effective enough to keep recipients out of hospital if they catch Covid.
The blockheads who have refused the vaccine are in the minority in the UK.
If preventative treatment for Covid is refused, so be it.
Their refusal shouldn't affect those of us who have been vaccinated, so if they get Covid - tough.
We can't continue to live our lives under some form of constraint, and in economic terms further restrictions will be disastrous.

I am really encouraged by the enthusiasm that younger people are showing for the vaccine, which bodes well. Those staff in cared homes not accepting the vaccine for other than medical reasons will probably begin to find that their employment prospects diminish. Particularly as care homes start to insist that agency staff and new employees are vaccinated. Slowly slowly catchee monkey. 🙈🙈🙈

 

[Dustydog]

I am really encouraged by the enthusiasm that younger people are showing for the vaccine, which bodes well. Those staff in cared homes not accepting the vaccine for other than medical reasons will probably begin to find that their employment prospects diminish. Particularly as care homes start to insist that agency staff and new employees are vaccinated. Slowly slowly catchee monkey. 🙈🙈🙈

My Mums home took very strict action last year. Today , there is not one employee who has not received two jabs! 👏👏👏

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
This vaccine either works or it doesn't.

It's supposed to be effective enough to keep recipients out of hospital if they catch Covid.
The blockheads who have refused the vaccine are in the minority in the UK.
....
Their refusal shouldn't affect those of us who have been vaccinated, so if they get Covid - tough.
...

Sadly its not that simple.

Firstly let me make it clear I would like to se restrictions reduced, but only when it is safe to do so , and that should be driven by data not dates.

The vaccine can only blunt the effects of the virus. It does completely not stop people from catching it, nor does it completely stop them from transmitting it, and a very few who have already received the two vaccines jabs have gone on to catch the new delta virus with sufficient vigour to need hospitalisation. (edit)I do need to add that having the vaccine is definitely the best thing to do as it reduces most of the effects.

The block heads are in the minority, but that is where the biggest chance of a new strain will develop and find a new foot hold.

I disagree with your view on if the blockhead do catch it they should suffer the consequences, because the reality is we ALL suffer , firstly from the cost of the NHS treating them and secondly becasue they are the ones who are holding back the reduction of restrictions by catching and spreading more virus keeping the infection numbers high.

The country is now dancing to their tune.

 

[Dustydog]

Your more charitable than me Prof. Why should our NHS be put at risk by the Blockheads? As indeed why should we be at risk? We really need to toughen up. According to You . Gov surveys, 71% of us support the four week delay explained by the PM this evening.

 

[otherclive]

Sadly its not that simple.

Firstly let me make it clear I would like to se restrictions reduced, but only when it is safe to do so , and that should be driven by data not dates.

The vaccine can only blunt the effects of the virus. It does completely not stop people from catching it, nor does it completely stop them from transmitting it, and a very few who have already received the two vaccines jabs have gone on to catch the new delta virus with sufficient vigour to need hospitalisation. (edit)I do need to add that having the vaccine is definitely the best thing to do as it reduces most of the effects.

The block heads are in the minority, but that is where the biggest chance of a new strain will develop and find a new foot hold.

I disagree with your view on if the blockhead do catch it they should suffer the consequences, because the reality is we ALL suffer , firstly from the cost of the NHS treating them and secondly becasue they are the ones who are holding back the reduction of restrictions by catching and spreading more virus keeping the infection numbers high.

The country is now dancing to their tune.

Unless you know the proportions and numbers you have no data to show whether it’s block heads or not. There’s still a lot of people from 18 upwards who haven’t had two jabs and this variant is more effective against those who have only had one jab than the previous variants. So to blame “ blockheads” is ignoring the data and is not the objectivity that you normally display.

 

[Dustydog]

Unless you know the proportions and numbers you have no data to show whether it’s block heads or not. There’s still a lot of people from 18 upwards who haven’t had two jabs and this variant is more effective against those who have only had one jab than the previous variants. So to blame “ blockheads” is ignoring the data and is not the objectivity that you normally display.

According to the National Statistics Office at least one third of London’s over 50s have refused the jab. The % is similar in other “cosmopolitan cities / towns.

 

[Parksy]

There are said to be significant numbers of people who refuse the vaccine for cultural reasons or through superstition.
Their obstinacy has allegedly caused spikes in infection within some towns and cities.
There are currently no available sanction which would encourage the refuseniks to accept the vaccine
Apart from the increased risks from infection the majority of refuseniks suffer no economic consequences from their refusal.
I would support any measure which affected or withdrew the financial support enjoyed by many refuseniks.
Draconian?
Yes, it certainly would be, but so would keeping the rest of us under constraints because of their obstinacy.

 

[otherclive]

According to the National Statistics Office at least one third of London’s over 50s have refused the jab. The % is similar in other “cosmopolitan cities / towns.

That totally is at odds with the mid April figures where across the various boroughs of London the percentage of over 45S who have had their first jab is generally above 80%, so it’s reasonable to assume they will have their second jab.

https://www.itv.com/news/london/202...ll-other-areas-in-england-for-vaccine-take-up

 

[Dustydog]

Third of over 50s in some London boroughs have refused a Covid-19 jab

Up to a third of over 50s living in some London boroughs have refused a a coronavirus jab, it has been revealed.

www.standard.co.uk

And the same from the NSO last month. Clearly there is a problem . Why should decent law abiding citizens be put at risk due to the “blockheads” ? Medical reasons excepted of course.

 

[otherclive]

Third of over 50s in some London boroughs have refused a Covid-19 jab

Up to a third of over 50s living in some London boroughs have refused a a coronavirus jab, it has been revealed.

www.standard.co.uk

And the same from the NSO last month. Clearly there is a problem . Why should decent law abiding citizens be put at risk due to the “blockheads” ? Medical reasons excepted of course.

The Standard publication date is 2 April whereas the ITV is 18 April some 16 days later that’s why figures have improved. Wonder what they are now that’s the most relevant dat as we are some two months onwards and in addition to the over 45s the initial numbers of the “ youngsters” coming forward have exceeded predictions both in London and the NW. They know that if life is to recover our normal freedoms then vaccination is important for them too.

Could the current delayed implementation of more freedom be down to someone’s reluctance to Red list India three weeks later than Red listing Pakistan and Bangladesh both of which had lower infection rates. A trade deal at what price?

 

[Dustydog]

No smoke without fire Clive. Something is wrong but short of Legal Enforcement not much any of us can do

 

[ProfJohnL]

Unless you know the proportions and numbers you have no data to show whether it’s block heads or not. There’s still a lot of people from 18 upwards who haven’t had two jabs and this variant is more effective against those who have only had one jab than the previous variants. So to blame “ blockheads” is ignoring the data and is not the objectivity that you normally display.

On this occasion I do not need to know the proportions as I am not being that specific. But we all know there are more than just a handful of people who have for other than good medical reasons refused the vaccinations, we also know there are plenty of people who are now ignoring the face mask and social distancing advice. Its those who are ignoring good sense approaches to managing the virus that I'm calling blockheads - I could have used far worse descriptors but I'd be banned.

The remarks so far from the ONS and medical watchdogs confirm the majority of new hospitalisations are for people who have not had any vaccine, and the slightly more worrying aspect is there are a few who have been vaccinated, suggesting the vaccine is not quite as universal as it might have been, but its still a massively better bet than not having it. The Delta varient has seen an exponential growth of positive tests for the last two weeks - despite the present measures.

We are fighting a battle with time. The longer it takes to remove the means of transmission for the virus the greater the chance that a more virulent strain evolves.

I'll predict ( and I hope i'm wrong ) if we don't get the whole of the adult and teenage population fully vaccinated by the autumn and we don't get proper control of our borders re other variants coming into the UK from abroad we will see a fourth wave.

 

[otherclive]

On this occasion I do not need to know the proportions as I am not being that specific. But we all know there are more than just a handful of people who have for other than good medical reasons refused the vaccinations, we also know there are plenty of people who are now ignoring the face mask and social distancing advice. Its those who are ignoring good sense approaches to managing the virus that I'm calling blockheads - I could have used far worse descriptors but I'd be banned.

The remarks so far from the ONS and medical watchdogs confirm the majority of new hospitalisations are for people who have not had any vaccine, and the slightly more worrying aspect is there are a few who have been vaccinated, suggesting the vaccine is not quite as universal as it might have been, but its still a massively better bet than not having it. The Delta varient has seen an exponential growth of positive tests for the last two weeks - despite the present measures.

We are fighting a battle with time. The longer it takes to remove the means of transmission for the virus the greater the chance that a more virulent strain evolves.

I'll predict ( and I hope i'm wrong ) if we don't get the whole of the adult and teenage population fully vaccinated by the autumn and we don't get proper control of our borders re other variants coming into the UK from abroad we will see a fourth wave.

It’s only to be expected that the majority of hospital cases are people who have not had the vaccine, or have only had their first jab. The vaccines are less effective against the Delta variant fir those who have only had the first jab, but much better when they have had two jabs. But no vaccine is 100% percent effective whatever the disease. Even with the original variant in UK and the Kent variant there were cases and hospitalisations using both Pfizer and AZ vaccines. But fortunately the cases were far less severe than would have occurred without vaccination

 

[Dustydog]

Blockheads have no concept of the real stress and anguish of lockdowns. My 95 mum recalls vividly the six years “lockdown “ of WW2. Leave your mask behind and risk gassing. No different today.