CRA verses Warranty

[Buckman]

Thank you as I have far this thread interesting and hopefully I have learnt something which I may be able to pass on.
The wording I mentioned is not in a contract of any form and neither are there any T&Cs for the warranty which is why I think it is open to any interpretation. Perhaps a clever lawyer could pull apart?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you as I have far this thread interesting and hopefully I have learnt something which I may be able to pass on.
The wording I mentioned is not in a contract of any form and neither are there any T&Cs for the warranty which is why I think it is open to any interpretation. Perhaps a clever lawyer could pull apart?

If you have signed to register your product with the manufacture, ( and that is the case with most caravans) you will find that constitutes your acceptance of the manufactures warranty T&C's, and that is your contract.

 

[Buckman]

If you have signed to register your product with the manufacture, ( and that is the case with most caravans) you will find that constitutes your acceptance of the manufactures warranty T&C's, and that is your contract.

The dealer registered the sale of our current caravan and also previous caravans that we have owned.
As far as I am aware registering a unit is not mandatory for a warranty claim and does not constitute a contract between the consumer and the manufacturer?

 

[Buckman]

Not entirely sure what would happen in the event the dealer closes up shop i.e. South Lincs, but your caravan is still under warranty? Obviously you have lost protection of CRA 2015, but if caravan is on finance you may still have some protection?

 

[Hutch]

Not entirely sure what would happen in the event the dealer closes up shop i.e. South Lincs, but your caravan is still under warranty? Obviously you have lost protection of CRA 2015, but if caravan is on finance you may still have some protection?

I had a crack in the rear panel of our Coachman, and when I tried to get back to the dealer, they had ceased trading. I contacted Coachman and they said contact any Coachman dealer and get them to be put on their Data base. In the end Coachman asked me to bring the van to them, for them to replace the rear panel.
Direct leisure repairs, https://www.directleisurerepairs.co.uk were also very helpfull to carry out warranty work.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The dealer registered the sale of our current caravan and also previous caravans that we have owned.
As far as I am aware registering a unit is not mandatory for a warranty claim and does not constitute a contract between the consumer and the manufacturer?

Whether a separate registration of the the product is required will be defined in the Manufacturer's Warranty T&C's. Different manufacturers may adopt slightly different processes about how your interest in the warranty scheme is registered.

However you can be pretty sure that if you were to make a claim under the manufacturer's warranty scheme they will only follow through if they are satisfied the claim is valid.

 

[Buckman]

Whether a separate registration of the the product is required will be defined in the Manufacturer's Warranty T&C's. Different manufacturers may adopt slightly different processes about how your interest in the warranty scheme is registered.

However you can be pretty sure that if you were to make a claim under the manufacturer's warranty scheme they will only follow through if they are satisfied the claim is valid.

We have never made a claim on manufacturer's warranty as left that to the dealer as that is their job and not ours.

 

[ProfJohnL]

We have never made a claim on manufacturer's warranty as left that to the dealer as that is their job and not ours.

When you have a problem with a product and you take it back to the seller and ask for a remedy, the seller/dealer you should tell them under which scheme (Manufacturers warranty or CRA) you want the work to be carried out. Sadly all to often customers do not make it clear which they want, and the seller assumes ( and they shouldn't assume) you want the manufacturer's warranty.

This is usually because with the manufacturer's warranty part of the cost of any repair will be covered by the manufacturer. I say part of the cost because often manufacturers warranty labour rates do not match the full hourly cost of employment. Also if the manufacturer declines the claim, the dealer will often use the customers ignorance of their statutory rights to fob the customer off and decline the work. This is the low cost option for the dealer. Where as if teh work is carried out under the CRA, the dealer is exposed to the full cost of the work with the possibility the manufacturer will not refund parts of part of the cost.

I do feel it should be compulsory for dealers and sellers to remind customer of their option to use their statutory rights, but that is not presently the case.

Edit

I should have added that when you approach a dealer with a manufacturer's warranty job, the dealer becomes the manufacturers representative, and not the dealer. Consequently you are engaging with the manufacturer and not the dealer.

 

[RogerL]

When you have a problem with a product and you take it back to the seller and ask for a remedy, the seller/dealer you should tell them under which scheme (Manufacturers warranty or CRA) you want the work to be carried out. Sadly all to often customers do not make it clear which they want, and the seller assumes ( and they shouldn't assume) you want the manufacturer's warranty.

This is usually because with the manufacturer's warranty part of the cost of any repair will be covered by the manufacturer. I say part of the cost because often manufacturers warranty labour rates do not match the full hourly cost of employment. Also if the manufacturer declines the claim, the dealer will often use the customers ignorance of their statutory rights to fob the customer off and decline the work. This is the low cost option for the dealer. Where as if teh work is carried out under the CRA, the dealer is exposed to the full cost of the work with the possibility the manufacturer will not refund parts of part of the cost.

I do feel it should be compulsory for dealers and sellers to remind customer of their option to use their statutory rights, but that is not presently the case.

Edit

I should have added that when you approach a dealer with a manufacturer's warranty job, the dealer becomes the manufacturers representative, and not the dealer. Consequently you are engaging with the manufacturer and not the dealer.

Work isn't carried out under CRA - the CRA provides a legal route to obtain recompense for the costs of rectifying a problem - you seem to be describing the situation where the selling dealer accepts his potential liability under CRA and carries out the work as an out-of-court settlement.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Work isn't carried out under CRA - the CRA provides a legal route to obtain recompense for the costs of rectifying a problem - you seem to be describing the situation where the selling dealer accepts his potential liability under CRA and carries out the work as an out-of-court settlement.

That is not exactly what I was trying to describe.

I have use the reference to the CRA as the customer exercising their statutory rites. If more sellers were to fully understand their responsibilities under the CRA, them genuine claims should be dealt with, without any need to progress towards court actions.

 

[Jcloughie]

This link is not helpful in the interpretation of specific terms. However, it does do a good and simple job of spelling out the contractural relationships.

When can I use a manufacturer's warranty or guarantee? - Which?

Guarantees and warranties are sometimes more generous than your statutory rights, and can give you an extra option to resolve problems with a product.

www.which.co.uk

In post #2, I mentioned my present guarantee claim against LG and John Lewis. There is no dispute, and I hope it remains that way. But this thread and the WHICH link above got me thinking.

We have had the Fridge for 10 months now. So out of the initial CRA period. Though, if problems arise the CRA could still be instigated. LG provide a 2 year guarantee (10 years on the compressor). But I admit to not looking at the T&C’s beyond that. John Lewis also provide a 2 year Guarantee. Note, both are guarantees. And registrations have been made. I don’t know if one guarantee would take precedence.

I have found dealing with JL to be excellent. But should there be any dispute or intransigence shown, It could end up as a bit of a nightmare. Often such disputes can be down to interpretation of a word or phrase.

Always a good idea to know your rights.


John

 

[ProfJohnL]

This link is not helpful in the interpretation of specific terms. However, it does do a good and simple job of spelling out the contractural relationships.
...John

Its actually far more helpful than you believe.

 

[Buckman]

This link is not helpful in the interpretation of specific terms. However, it does do a good and simple job of spelling out the contractural relationships.

When can I use a manufacturer's warranty or guarantee? - Which?

Guarantees and warranties are sometimes more generous than your statutory rights, and can give you an extra option to resolve problems with a product.

www.which.co.uk

John

A good link however it does highlight that the route you decide on to get your money back will depend on when you found the fault.

The first six months after taking ownership of the product, it will usually be more straightforward to use the Consumer Rights Act and make a faulty goods complaint.

After the first six months it will be down to you to prove the fault was present at the time of purchase, whether you claim through your warranty or use your consumer rights.

So, after this time, you might be easier to claim on your warranty or guarantee.

The above circumstance indicates that it is better to use CRA 2015 than the warranty.

However it goes on to state that "A warranty or guarantee is a contract between you and the provider, and you’re both bound by what that contract says."

Surely that indicates that a warranty is between the consumer and the supplier and not between the consumer and the manufacturer?

 

[JTQ]

After the first six months it will be down to you to prove the fault was present at the time of purchase, whether you claim through your warranty or use your consumer rights.

Surely most warranty's cover faults that occur within the valid period quite irrespective of being there at time of purchase, and certainly not up to you to prove the fault was there at the time of purchase?

I most certainly have had products corrected that happened way into the warranty, a car pressure sensor being an example, one that worked for years prior to stopping. I only had to tell them it had failed, not prove against the facts it was faulty before it failed.

 

[Buckman]

Surely most warranty's cover faults that occur within the valid period quite irrespective of being there at time of purchase, and certainly not up to you to prove the fault was there at the time of purchase?

I most certainly have had products corrected that happened way into the warranty, a car pressure sensor being an example, one that worked for years prior to stopping. I only had to tell them it had failed, not prove against the facts it was faulty before it failed.

Take it up with Which Consumer as that was copied direct from their web page.

 

[otherclive]

Surely most warranty's cover faults that occur within the valid period quite irrespective of being there at time of purchase, and certainly not up to you to prove the fault was there at the time of purchase?

I most certainly have had products corrected that happened way into the warranty, a car pressure sensor being an example, one that worked for years prior to stopping. I only had to tell them it had failed, not prove against the facts it was faulty before it failed.

I have recently had an exterior light fail. It was one with an LED array so not just a bulb failure. I emailed the uk manufacturer and sent a photo showing it’s much reduced light output. A replacement was dispatched that day. The failed unit was after 35 months of the 3 year warrant. No registration required just a copy of the original invoice and a photo.

 

[JTQ]

I have recently had an exterior light fail. It was one with an LED array so not just a bulb failure. I emailed the uk manufacturer and sent a photo showing it’s much reduced light output. A replacement was dispatched that day. The failed unit was after 35 months of the 3 year warrant. No registration required just a copy of the original invoice and a photo.

Pertinently though, did you have to prove it was faulty at the time of sale as claimed here in post #38?

 

[otherclive]

Pertinently though, did you have to prove it was faulty at the time of sale as claimed here in post #38?

Certainly not, as the integrated LEDs could not be accessed, and since it worked perfectly for 35 months I had no reason to doubt its performance. It is when it went very dim that I raised the matter with the manufacturer. I don’t know what the outcome would have been had I raised the problem with the retailer. Probably not so positive.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Its always been my understanding that the 6 month point determines whether or not you have to prove the faults was inherent in the manufacturing. I think, as previous posts suggest, that this is not a hard and fast rule and may well depend on the value of the item.

Replacing an LED light is a low cost option for the supplier whereas replacing say a television that dies after 4 years into a 5 year warranty may not be so straightfoward.

Just as an aside, we've just had our eye test and while neither of us needed new lenses or frames, the optician told us that the existing lenses were covered by a two year no quibble warranty and that because there were a few scratches ( which we couldn't see) we could have them changed foc. Which we did.

As they say 'mileage may vary'

 

[Jcloughie]

Surely most warranty's cover faults that occur within the valid period quite irrespective of being there at time of purchase, and certainly not up to you to prove the fault was there at the time of purchase?

I most certainly have had products corrected that happened way into the warranty, a car pressure sensor being an example, one that worked for years prior to stopping. I only had to tell them it had failed, not prove against the facts it was faulty before it failed.

The 6 month rule, which is only a guide I believe, relates to the CRA, not warranties or guaranties.

However it goes on to state that "A warranty or guarantee is a contract between you and the provider, and you’re both bound by what that contract says."

Surely that indicates that a warranty is between the consumer and the supplier and not between the consumer and the manufacturer?

I think you have misread it a bit. For example, it states that a guarantee is:

quote.

• Guarantees are usually free and offered by the manufacturer.They are an assurance regarding quality / lifespan with a promise to repair or replace if the product doesn’t live up to billing. Often, companies require you to fill out a registration card to validate the guarantee.

Care is needed in understanding terms like ‘customer’ and ‘provider’. As at times, the manufacturer will be the provider and at other times the dealer is the provider. Same with customer. The dealer being the manufacturers customer.

But, when I have taken a new van back to a dealer, I have expected them to undertake the repair. They will pass the cost of that repair onto the manufacturer invoking their contract with them as a customer. That does not prevent me, as the final customer, invoking my guarantee registered with the manufacturer. But it is normally much more straight forward to let the dealer handle things. If disputes occur I will say to the dealer that as my supplier I expect them to fix whatever is the problem. And, of course, I can always invoke the CRA. But often it’s sufficient to demonstrate you would be prepared to do so.

Example.

I discovered in year 1 that any key would open my door lock, the locker locks worked fine. The dealer said that the manufacturer would not accept the claim as the barrel contains plastic parts! so hard luck. I refused to accept that and insisted on them fixing the problem.

In the mean time I contacted the lock manufacturer. (Not my job bot I was interested in their opinion). They were shocked. And said if neither the dealer or the manufacturer would take responsibility, then they would. They them kicked some bottoms and it was resolved.

John

 

[Buckman]

Caravan manufacturers offer warranties and not guarantees? The article also states that in the first six months you would use CRA 2015 for any fault repairs and not the manufacturers warranty. The warranty is to be used after the first 6 months have passed. The article does seem to contradict itself in a some areas although overall a helpful article.

 

[RogerL]

Caravan manufacturers offer warranties and not guarantees? The article also states that in the first six months you would use CRA 2015 for any fault repairs and not the manufacturers warranty. The warranty is to be used after the first 6 months have passed. The article does seem to contradict itself in a some areas although overall a helpful article.

CRA simply uses 6 months to identify whose responsibility it is to prove/disprove that the fault existed at point of sale - up to 6 months it's the retailer's responsibility to prove it didn't exist at point of sale - after 6 months it's the customer's responsibility to prove that it did exist at point of sale.

At any point in time, it's usually much easier to go down the warranty route - with the customer having the added security of being able to use CRA if the warranty route is blocked.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...

However it goes on to state that "A warranty or guarantee is a contract between you and the provider, and you’re both bound by what that contract says."

Surely that indicates that a warranty is between the consumer and the supplier and not between the consumer and the manufacturer?

It's with whoever provides the warranty. The T&C's will state who its with, and in 99.999% of cases that is the manufacturer or the importer.

 

[Buckman]

CRA simply uses 6 months to identify whose responsibility it is to prove/disprove that the fault existed at point of sale - up to 6 months it's the retailer's responsibility to prove it didn't exist at point of sale - after 6 months it's the customer's responsibility to prove that it did exist at point of sale.

At any point in time, it's usually much easier to go down the warranty route - with the customer having the added security of being able to use CRA if the warranty route is blocked.

You are correct in your first paragraph, but fall down in second paragraph as CRA 2015 is what should be used in the first 6 months as per the Which article.
Are you aware that if in the first 30 days if you make a claim, the period is suspended until issue is resolved to the satisfaction of both parties? Three months later you could still be in the 30 day period.
Same applies for the period after the 30 days and within 6 months of date of delivery. Technically when we rejected our 2016 caravan at 11 months it was still in the 30 period.

 

[RogerL]

You are correct in your first paragraph, but fall down in second paragraph as CRA 2015 is what should be used in the first 6 months as per the Which article.
Are you aware that if in the first 30 days if you make a claim, the period is suspended until issue is resolved to the satisfaction of both parties? Three months later you could still be in the 30 day period.
Same applies for the period after the 30 days and within 6 months of date of delivery. Technically when we rejected our 2016 caravan at 11 months it was still in the 30 period.

Then I disagree with part of the Which? article!

For both car and caravan, a fault apparent in the first 6 months is easiest dealt with under warranty. CRA doesn't need to be even mentioned if the supplier/customer relationship is good.

Where a car/caravan has been bought from a distant dealer, it's often not easy to use local dealer for caravan warranty work but it's straightforward for cars.