Crufts ???
- Thread starter Gumbo
- Start date
appalled at the attitude of those so called breeders!
Upset by the sight of those poor dogs
Despite paying to get one of my dogs KC registered and having gone to crufts and discover dogs, I have always thought the KC was more about making money than real concern over dog breeding.
They should insist of proper screening before allowing breeders to register their litters, all dogs taking part in their shows should be screened also.
Can you beleive the woman that continued to use her dog to sire 20 plus litters AFTER being told he had a serious genentic disease!! and that dog still qualifies for crufts!!??
Upset by the sight of those poor dogs
Despite paying to get one of my dogs KC registered and having gone to crufts and discover dogs, I have always thought the KC was more about making money than real concern over dog breeding.
They should insist of proper screening before allowing breeders to register their litters, all dogs taking part in their shows should be screened also.
Can you beleive the woman that continued to use her dog to sire 20 plus litters AFTER being told he had a serious genentic disease!! and that dog still qualifies for crufts!!??
Couldn't watch it as I cannot bear to watch any form of entertainment whereby animals are suffering. The report on the news yesterday regarding the female ape still clutching her dead baby turned me and I had to look away - why do they put such reports on at meal time? I know it is natural in the wild and quite possibly a human mother would have the same bond with a dead baby if given the chance. In this respect I am a big softie at heart and could not do anything to harm an animal although I do make comments on here regarding dogs - it is just my little way of trying to wind the likes of Lord B. up - honestly it is pure banter and means no harm.
I went to Crufts a few years ago a vowed never to grace its doors again.
We lost count of the number of times owners were repeatedly asked to return to the animals to 'attend' to them. And seeing dogs being paraded around under very hot lighting conditions for what seemed like an eternity was just too much for us.
We had one of our dogs from a so called respected breeder and it was just a business to them (often cash in hand as well) , and they openly admitted to it. They had a total of 16 breeding dogs pushing out litters every month of the year.
When our dog developed a growth on his neck (we'd only had him 6 weeks) the vet asked us to contact the breeder to see if they had any history. The breeder called us a liar and said we never had the dog from them. Soon changed their minds when I told them I'd let the Credit Card company know that their transaction was irregular!!!
We lost count of the number of times owners were repeatedly asked to return to the animals to 'attend' to them. And seeing dogs being paraded around under very hot lighting conditions for what seemed like an eternity was just too much for us.
We had one of our dogs from a so called respected breeder and it was just a business to them (often cash in hand as well) , and they openly admitted to it. They had a total of 16 breeding dogs pushing out litters every month of the year.
When our dog developed a growth on his neck (we'd only had him 6 weeks) the vet asked us to contact the breeder to see if they had any history. The breeder called us a liar and said we never had the dog from them. Soon changed their minds when I told them I'd let the Credit Card company know that their transaction was irregular!!!
Colin
We all know you have a kind heart.
However,
Most dams will reject a pup or pups if the dam senses there is something wrong with it. It's like a sixth sense.
Years ago, a lot of breeders or people with working dogs, would immediately dispose of a pup with an obvious deformity such as a hare lip/ undershot or overshot jaw etc, before the dam had chance to reject it herself anyway.
Unfortunately, today, a lot of people are actually 'saving' pups rejected by their dam or those with obvious deformities. Those pups in a high majority of cases will suffer from defects, normally hereditary and thus, go on to breed (due to ignorant or greedy owners) and the circle continues.
I think it should be mandatory that any pedigree breed of dog used for or intended to be used for whelping or covering, should have had all the relevant health checks specific to that breed and be tested clear. In my own breed, the SBT can suffer from hereditary problems. I'm happy to say that although both the dam and sire were clear, I had my own dog dna tested for L-2-HGA (L-2-hydroxyglutaric aciduria, HC (both tested clear) and he's also PHPV unaffected.
However, the back yard breeders are knocking out SBT's without relevant health testing, are mating crap to crap and causing problems left right and centre. Then there's the problem of some judges preferring certain types, if we could educate the judges, that might assist. However, the KC doesn't write the breed standard so I don't think they should be blamed 100% but they must take some of the blame.
Lisa
We all know you have a kind heart.
However,
Most dams will reject a pup or pups if the dam senses there is something wrong with it. It's like a sixth sense.
Years ago, a lot of breeders or people with working dogs, would immediately dispose of a pup with an obvious deformity such as a hare lip/ undershot or overshot jaw etc, before the dam had chance to reject it herself anyway.
Unfortunately, today, a lot of people are actually 'saving' pups rejected by their dam or those with obvious deformities. Those pups in a high majority of cases will suffer from defects, normally hereditary and thus, go on to breed (due to ignorant or greedy owners) and the circle continues.
I think it should be mandatory that any pedigree breed of dog used for or intended to be used for whelping or covering, should have had all the relevant health checks specific to that breed and be tested clear. In my own breed, the SBT can suffer from hereditary problems. I'm happy to say that although both the dam and sire were clear, I had my own dog dna tested for L-2-HGA (L-2-hydroxyglutaric aciduria, HC (both tested clear) and he's also PHPV unaffected.
However, the back yard breeders are knocking out SBT's without relevant health testing, are mating crap to crap and causing problems left right and centre. Then there's the problem of some judges preferring certain types, if we could educate the judges, that might assist. However, the KC doesn't write the breed standard so I don't think they should be blamed 100% but they must take some of the blame.
Lisa
Roger, I'm really sorry to say this but from what you describe, you should have walked away right there and then, NEVER buy from these people, you are adding to their wealth and condoning dogs being used as breeding machines.
Lisa
Lisa
I should point out from the start that I am no expert on dogs, nor am I a traditional 'dog lover'. When I was recently on a CL a couple pitched alongside us with a collie type dog. The dog ( I should say *****) was an incredible, lovely animal. I never heard so much as a whimper from it during the two weeks that we were there, though it was sometimes antagonised by other dogs - and children. I commented to the owner ( as did others ) about the truly good nature of this animal, and he put it down to being the runt of the litter. At the other end of the spectrum, the TV show yesterday ( I only watched about five minutes worth) illustrated the lengths that some people will go to to get one up on the next person regardless of suffering of animals or any thing else. Dogs, cars, clothes..... to them, they are just a product to show off.
Hi Rod
I'd be highly surprised if the dog's temperament was due to it being the runt of the litter. It could however be due to having a dam or sire with good temperaments, it could have been socialised properly to all situations from the inprinting period and beyond. Some dogs are simply 'wired' either in a good way or bad way, clearly that dog was nicely wired and possibly had also a bit of my other comments in there too.
I'm now going to watch the programme.
Lisa
I'd be highly surprised if the dog's temperament was due to it being the runt of the litter. It could however be due to having a dam or sire with good temperaments, it could have been socialised properly to all situations from the inprinting period and beyond. Some dogs are simply 'wired' either in a good way or bad way, clearly that dog was nicely wired and possibly had also a bit of my other comments in there too.
I'm now going to watch the programme.
Lisa
Lisa
This programme was just as bad as watching a Nazi concentration camp experiment carried out bt Herr Dr Megele.
Crufts alone should be ashamed of themselves for encouraging stupid, and I suspect, financially greedy breeders from mating dogs and bitches to enhance defects. The Peke who won should be struck off and be castrated to avoid furtehr development of the defective palate gene.
As for the Kennel Club I'm wild. My Springers are KC registered only because they have a real good mix of Badgercourt and other strains making them excellent gun dogs and two of the most dependable loving , intelligent pets I've had. The KC are allowing or I think even encouraging Crufts to mark up the poor breeders with deformed Dogs.
The KC Chairman and their Directors are a disgrace and need checking out.
Cheers
Alan
This programme was just as bad as watching a Nazi concentration camp experiment carried out bt Herr Dr Megele.
Crufts alone should be ashamed of themselves for encouraging stupid, and I suspect, financially greedy breeders from mating dogs and bitches to enhance defects. The Peke who won should be struck off and be castrated to avoid furtehr development of the defective palate gene.
As for the Kennel Club I'm wild. My Springers are KC registered only because they have a real good mix of Badgercourt and other strains making them excellent gun dogs and two of the most dependable loving , intelligent pets I've had. The KC are allowing or I think even encouraging Crufts to mark up the poor breeders with deformed Dogs.
The KC Chairman and their Directors are a disgrace and need checking out.
Cheers
Alan
Well I've just watched the programme.
Firstly, I'd like to ask, will the BBC be covering Crufts next year????? I wonder.
I think there's been a lot of careful editing on that programme.
Out of 207 breeds in the UK, they covered the health issues of just seven breeds.
I found the way that dogs were being compared to humans highly offensive and totally unnecessary. Who in their right mind would ask a breeder 'would you have a baby with your daughter or grand daughter?' - bloody disgusting question to ask. But in hindsight, it was extremely clever of the BBC to keep comparing and humanising these dog problems, the makers and reporter were really latching onto jo public's human thought chain to provoke outrage. Very clever.
For years and years, I've looked at some of the different types of dogs at shows and whilst out and about, and thought they just look like freaks and no way could they possibily function as a proper dog should - ie, run, hunt, scent, mate, chase, hold, chew, kill, dig, work as a pack etc.
I thought the owners of the boxer dog were disgusting. I wonder how long the crew had to wait for the dog to start fitting? Did the lights the crew would have rigged up in the house contribute to the fit? If I had a dog which fitted like that, no way would I allow a camera crew and all their equipment into my house to stress the dog further. Looked liked the vet was making a nice earner from all the drugs.
If what was reported was true about the woman with long blonde hair, using her affected dog to cover 26 bitches, then she is nothing more than a sewer rat. I don't know anything about that condition but if it is hereditary, then stop using affected animals.
I think the KC made themselves look complete idiots, they were ill prepared for questions, however they do do some good things like the Good Cizs Awards, Discover Dogs, Acredited Breeders Scheme, to name a few.
I know the KC has put out a press statement as a direct response to the programme but I haven't read that yet.
That's it, I'm off my soap box. At the end of the day, it all comes down to fashion and money, I don't care what anyone says.
Lisa
Firstly, I'd like to ask, will the BBC be covering Crufts next year????? I wonder.
I think there's been a lot of careful editing on that programme.
Out of 207 breeds in the UK, they covered the health issues of just seven breeds.
I found the way that dogs were being compared to humans highly offensive and totally unnecessary. Who in their right mind would ask a breeder 'would you have a baby with your daughter or grand daughter?' - bloody disgusting question to ask. But in hindsight, it was extremely clever of the BBC to keep comparing and humanising these dog problems, the makers and reporter were really latching onto jo public's human thought chain to provoke outrage. Very clever.
For years and years, I've looked at some of the different types of dogs at shows and whilst out and about, and thought they just look like freaks and no way could they possibily function as a proper dog should - ie, run, hunt, scent, mate, chase, hold, chew, kill, dig, work as a pack etc.
I thought the owners of the boxer dog were disgusting. I wonder how long the crew had to wait for the dog to start fitting? Did the lights the crew would have rigged up in the house contribute to the fit? If I had a dog which fitted like that, no way would I allow a camera crew and all their equipment into my house to stress the dog further. Looked liked the vet was making a nice earner from all the drugs.
If what was reported was true about the woman with long blonde hair, using her affected dog to cover 26 bitches, then she is nothing more than a sewer rat. I don't know anything about that condition but if it is hereditary, then stop using affected animals.
I think the KC made themselves look complete idiots, they were ill prepared for questions, however they do do some good things like the Good Cizs Awards, Discover Dogs, Acredited Breeders Scheme, to name a few.
I know the KC has put out a press statement as a direct response to the programme but I haven't read that yet.
That's it, I'm off my soap box. At the end of the day, it all comes down to fashion and money, I don't care what anyone says.
Lisa
Lisa.
NO!!
They do all the retrieving with dummys and balls. They don't mind bangs. I admit they are excellent at springing rabbits and pheasants but they never catch anything. The truth is I don't even like fishing never mind shooting. It's just I live in the country and the dogs "springing" is what comes natural to a gun dog.
They have loads of stamina and enjoy a two good hourly walks a day.
And before you ask I hate fox hunting!
Cheers
Alan
Lisa
The people who follow the disgraceful practice of "disfigurement is best" are clearly morons with no hearts. In fact at the turn of the century they would have been the supporters and providers of such abominations as:-
The Elephant Man
The Fat Lady
The Bearded Lady and so on.
How un pc and definately not allowable today. So what gives these disfigured pet owners the licence to carry on with their Frankenstein hobby?????
Chers
Alan
The people who follow the disgraceful practice of "disfigurement is best" are clearly morons with no hearts. In fact at the turn of the century they would have been the supporters and providers of such abominations as:-
The Elephant Man
The Fat Lady
The Bearded Lady and so on.
How un pc and definately not allowable today. So what gives these disfigured pet owners the licence to carry on with their Frankenstein hobby?????
Chers
Alan
Hi Alan
It's probably best if we halt this cyber conversation now then, as I am pro hunting.
Lisa xx
Hi Alan
They're not pet owners though Alan, that's the root of the problem, say for an example, tomorrow a particular bassett got its third CC and was made up to a CH. There would be a long line of people making bookings for it to cover their bitches. Hence, these 'deformaties' or to use its correct term 'over exageration' (sp), just carries on.
The world of dog showing is very clicky, believe me.
As I say, in my opinion, it's down to fashion and money and 'fame' for want of a better word. Personally I couldn't breed to or from such freaks. I like a dog which is capable of doing what it's supposed to, I have two of them right here beside me now.
Lisa
They're not pet owners though Alan, that's the root of the problem, say for an example, tomorrow a particular bassett got its third CC and was made up to a CH. There would be a long line of people making bookings for it to cover their bitches. Hence, these 'deformaties' or to use its correct term 'over exageration' (sp), just carries on.
The world of dog showing is very clicky, believe me.
As I say, in my opinion, it's down to fashion and money and 'fame' for want of a better word. Personally I couldn't breed to or from such freaks. I like a dog which is capable of doing what it's supposed to, I have two of them right here beside me now.
Lisa
The cause of inbreeding with the inherent problems are obvious, the law allows the s***bags to get away with it. It's so easy to continue breeding because it isn't regulated, anyone can do it and it's a nice little tax free earner.
The area that is worse for this is the puppy farms of West Wales. Every week there are adverts for dogs of all breeds in our local paper, infact this weeks paper had an advert for the breed we have, Miniature Schnauzers, offering all black, black-silver and pepper-salt and they will even deliver. The place was Carmarthen. The cost of a pup is
The area that is worse for this is the puppy farms of West Wales. Every week there are adverts for dogs of all breeds in our local paper, infact this weeks paper had an advert for the breed we have, Miniature Schnauzers, offering all black, black-silver and pepper-salt and they will even deliver. The place was Carmarthen. The cost of a pup is
Yep, agree with you there LB, when the 'breeder' leaves the room and comes back with one at a time, it's usually bad news.
You only have to look on ezypup (or whatever it's called), there's hundreds and hundreds of adverts which are quite clearly puppy farms or drongos with no mention of health testing. They think if the pups are wormed, they're free from any defects.
But, buyers are partially to blame too for keeping these people in business. When walking Gaylord out, I get many people (mainly men) stopping me to ask about him and the breed. The first thing I tell them is about health testing, byb etc.
A family came to my house last year to ask me if I knew of any red SBT pups in the area. After telling them about health testing and advising them not to consider buying a 'rare blue' at the over inflated price of
You only have to look on ezypup (or whatever it's called), there's hundreds and hundreds of adverts which are quite clearly puppy farms or drongos with no mention of health testing. They think if the pups are wormed, they're free from any defects.
But, buyers are partially to blame too for keeping these people in business. When walking Gaylord out, I get many people (mainly men) stopping me to ask about him and the breed. The first thing I tell them is about health testing, byb etc.
A family came to my house last year to ask me if I knew of any red SBT pups in the area. After telling them about health testing and advising them not to consider buying a 'rare blue' at the over inflated price of
i watched it last night and it made me feel sick. the poor pug, the king charles im sorry i would have my dog put down if it was in that much pain and there still breeding from them passing it on. it makes me sick.
what about the poor ridgebacks killing the ones that are perfectly healthy just because the dont have the ridge back but they never used to. that evil cow that said she has them put down.
as some of you know i maybe expecting my first litter in october. my staffords will be KC reg but most important my storm and the pups will be HC and L-2 HGA clear by birth so no problems that will be passed on. no i dont show her before any of you ask.
jo-anne
what about the poor ridgebacks killing the ones that are perfectly healthy just because the dont have the ridge back but they never used to. that evil cow that said she has them put down.
as some of you know i maybe expecting my first litter in october. my staffords will be KC reg but most important my storm and the pups will be HC and L-2 HGA clear by birth so no problems that will be passed on. no i dont show her before any of you ask.
jo-anne
I didn't see the programme. After the warning about dogs in distress before it started Her Ladyship wouldn't put it on.
Personally I'm glad I didn't see it because it wouldn't have been any good for my blood pressure. It makes me feel so helpless and frustrated when I see these puppy farms operating with impunity or deliberate, selfish cruelty .
Personally I'm glad I didn't see it because it wouldn't have been any good for my blood pressure. It makes me feel so helpless and frustrated when I see these puppy farms operating with impunity or deliberate, selfish cruelty .
the whole programme has just demonstarted that a KC registered dog is worth no more than a pup from a backyard breeder - you get no extra securites that your pup will be in good health as there is no requirement to health screen.
even the accredited breeders are using dogs with genentic diseases and still getting the support of the KC (one even winning a place at Crufts?!)
So the point of KC is what exactly?
yep they do some good educative stuff, but unfortunately its not enough, their main aim is supposed to be good breeding of dogs and it clearly aint working!!
That's why you shouldn't believe all you hear on documentaries, they do not write the breed standard.
Lisa
Lord B. you and your good lady seem to have the same soft heart as myself and countless other people when it comes to animal suffering - as I said previously I had no intention of watching it because it would have probably upset me - my previous comments regarding dogs have just been a wind up to start you off - I do enjoy a good friendly banter with you when you are on your soap box.
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