Deleted

[Dustydog]

Deleted before this becomes another boring crusade

 

[otherclive]

In answer to your title of this thread …….. you probably will not be around to know, but your children and their children hopefully will.
Wrt the body text…… not taking the lure 🤣

But do you have an answer to todays position?

PS Surely a plot of per capita emissions over the timescale would give a more accurate picture of who is emitting more over the given period since the Industrial Revolution started. But its academic given we are where we are.

 

[Tobes]

Why on earth would we want to go back to coal fired power? It's neither clean nor cheap. We could turn them back on, pay even more for power than we do now, send more money abroad to buy coal and further pollute the planet. Or we could continue to invest in cheap clean renewable energy. Just imagine if it turned out that man made climate change was incorrect (it's not) and we accidentally built an infrastructure that gave us both low cost energy and less local pollution anyway. Does that seem like a bad outcome?

 

[woodsieboy]

We don't know whether modern coal use is cheap or clean relative to other energy scources, the option is there as part of creating energy security now, we would not need to import coal or wood pellets if we develop our own resources, together with fracking, and gas and oil and nuclear. If it did turn out that the idea of man made climate change is incorrect we would still be left with a blend of energy options to ensure our energy security.we would also have the option to prioritise generation, so when the sun didn't shine or the wind didn't blow we could still supply industry and heat our homes. As for polluting the planet, all the reports I read suggest that the UK produces 0.8-1% of global emissions,, so while we are fixating on net zero, China continues to increase their emissions at the same time increasing their manufacturing ability to sell us everything from phones to cars. I doubt Rishi will be putting pressure on China via COP27.So in answer to original question, not a waste of time, on the basis that it is good to talk through problems with others, but questionable whether it is the most effective use of time and resources, did we really need leaders to jet to Egypt, when Zoom is available?

 

[otherclive]

Here you two my comment on coal fired power was treble tic.

Mrs Dusty worked for National Power for years . We knew one of their pollution experts who died three years ago at 92. I was told the multi million pound purification system at Didcot ensured the final chimney emissions were cleaner than standing around at Piccadilly Circus.
Sadly renewables are just not reliable enough nor plentiful enough to supply the UKs current needs. It is a well documented scientific and political fact we closed down the power stations too early. Ten years later I suspect it could all be green . However the sad reality is we are now heading for power disruptions this winter. All because of poor planning and trying to be green too early. Patience is a virtue😉

It is the historic fact comparing the U.K. and China CO2 that is the eye opener

But the Didcot emissions you are referring to are not Carbon Dioxide as to my knowledge Didcot had no means of reducing it other than by trying to be as efficient as possible in its overall process.

 

[Tobes]

But the Didcot emissions you are referring to are not Carbon Dioxide as to my knowledge Didcot had no means of reducing it other than by trying to be as efficient as possible in its overall process.

Absolutely this. And Didcot stopped producing coal fired emissions years ago (2013). At that time standing at Piccadilly Circus would have been bad for your health...
I note that Didcot did have NOx reduction systems (installed 2005 to 2007), but no flu-gas desulphurisation, which was in part why it closed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh Dusty,

I'm not sure what your intention was in posting your opening comment, but it's so misleading, I'm not surprised at some of the comments.

Comparing the UK and China in terms of relative emissions, it's hardly surprising that China's quantity is so much more than the UK's, as simply by the population count, they are so much bigger.

I'm not condoning the levels of emissions, but to be fair China is actually doing a lot to reduce their emissions, and some of their initiatives put the West's efforts to shame - possibly one of the benefits of being a dictatorship, and being able to make draconian changes and restrictions to force some changes. Just look at some of the electrification programmes they have which has spawned so many new EV companies that are preparing to export to the rest of the world.

We all can and should be doing our bit and a bit more to reduce our energy fossil consumption.

 

[otherclive]

Coming out of the pandemic China saw external and inter demand increase sharply whilst at the same time hydro power dropped 8% due to extensive periods of low rainfall, consequently coal fired power increased 12%. Did they have any alternative?

The Chinese are well aware of their impact on global issues and are making big strides in renewables and nuclear. Larger than many in the west give them credit for. To my mind all countries have to make the effort to decarbonise whether large or small, and the wealthier ones who tend to be the major emitters, either directly or indirectly unfortunately have to bear the major costs.
Chinas usage per capita is very close to UK’s but of course they still have proportionally more of their population living in quite basic conditions compared to UK.

 

[Jcloughie]

A statement was made on this morning's politics program to say that out of the G20 countries, the UK has made the greatest reduction in co2 emissions. (I can't find substantiation).

I agree that emissions per capita would be most informative. I found this with recent data. China is not the worst as is often thought.



The UK was 5.95 tonnes in 2021.


John

 

[Parksy]

Oh Dusty,

I'm not sure what your intention was in posting your opening comment, but it's so misleading, I'm not surprised at some of the comments......

......We all can and should be doing our bit and a bit more to reduce our energy fossil consumption.

From reading commentary which reflects varying shades of opinion on "climate change", while not many would disagree that the weather in Britain has changed over the past few years, no real consensus exists among ordinary people that these variations in seasonal weather conditions are a direct result of activity by mankind.
Anecdotal evidence from social media tends to suggest that a great deal of scepticism exists among those who express an opinion, and this spectrum of opinion is also true of this forum.
Most of us would agree that pollution is not a good thing, but of course pollution can be directly and accurately measured, and I'm sure that most of us 'do our bit' to look after the environment by reducing waste and recycling.
The "green" point of view is currently being greatly sabotaged by the eco morons who are blocking roads and motorways, disrupting the lives of ordinary people and alienating many who would otherwise tacitly support the "green" cause.
Whenever I see news reports about these smug faced oxygen thieves gluing themselves to roads and climbing bridges and motorway gantries to halt busy motorways, I have to suppress the urge to burn off a couple of gallons of diesel in my 4x4 by driving aimlessly around the local motorway network, just because I can 😕

 

[Jcloughie]

From reading commentary which reflects varying shades of opinion on "climate change", while not many would disagree that the weather in Britain has changed over the past few years, no real consensus exists among ordinary people that these variations in seasonal weather conditions are a direct result of activity by mankind.
Anecdotal evidence from social media tends to suggest that a great deal of scepticism exists among those who express an opinion, and this spectrum of opinion is also true of this forum.
Most of us would agree that pollution is not a good thing, but of course pollution can be directly and accurately measured, and I'm sure that most of us 'do our bit' to look after the environment by reducing waste and recycling.
The "green" point of view is currently being greatly sabotaged by the eco morons who are blocking roads and motorways, disrupting the lives of ordinary people and alienating many who would otherwise tacitly support the "green" cause.
Whenever I see news reports these smug faced oxygen thieves gluing themselves to roads and climbing bridges and motorway gantries to halt busy motorways, I have to suppress the urge to burn off a couple of gallons of diesel in my 4x4 by driving aimlessly around the local motorway network, just because I can 😕

I like the way this informed man explains the position.

Climate Change - The Facts

After one of the hottest years on record, Sir David Attenborough looks at the science of climate change and potential solutions to this global threat.

www.bbc.co.uk

John