Demise of the car tax disc

[BrianSpratt]

Now the tax disc is being phased out, would it not be a good idea if we used the redundant disc holders to display proof of insurance. I'm sure that would help the uninsured driver problem. Oh yes, and we'd give the police incentives to find uninsured drivers.

 

[PaulT]

The police Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system not only checks that a car is taxed but also checks that the vehicle is insured and tested. Therefore, there is no need to display proof of insurance.

 

[macandy]

Lets not distract the Police from their main job of not doing their job

 

[NigelHutson]

We do over-complicate things in the UK! By far the simplest way of taxing and insuring vehicles would be to include the VED and basic insurance in the price of a litre of fuel. That way, everybody has to pay, and everybody is covered. If you want to upgrade the insurance to fully comprehensive, then by all means pay privately. I suppose doing that would not create "jobs for the boys" at DVLA, and many politicians wouldn't be getting their back-handers from insurance companies profits! Nah, I'm not cynical in the least!

Whilst the current displaying of a tax disc isn't infallible, if we don't have to display any longer, it surely opens up the floodgates for car cloning. For instance, if my dad, my son and I each had an identical blue Ford Focus, and one was fully road legal (with each of us being named drivers), so long as they weren't all parked together, they could display the same registration number and the "false" pair would never get picked up on ANPR. Now, there's a thought! :woohoo:

 

[Parksy]

If road tax and insurance costs were added to the cost of fuel how would this work for tax exempt vehicles such as for those with disabilities?
it would allow unscrupulous fuel companies to rob us even more than they do already if that were possible.

 

[Gozza]

If road tax and insurance costs were added to the cost of fuel how would this work for tax exempt vehicles such as for those with disabilities?
it would allow unscrupulous fuel companies to rob us even more than they do already if that were possible.

No system is perfect but it would at least ensure that people who use the roads more, pay more: My Mum's car does less mileage in a year than mine does in a month - how is it fair that we pay the same VED?
There's already a system which allows vehicles which never go on the road to use tax exempt fuel (red diesel) - it can't be beyond human ingenuity to come up with a scheme that extends this to currently tax exempt vehicles.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

There's already a system which allows vehicles which never go on the road to use tax exempt fuel (red diesel) - it can't be beyond human ingenuity to come up with a scheme that extends this to currently tax exempt vehicles.

You can't put diesel in a petrol engine, can you? hmy:

 

[NigelHutson]

Just to open things up a little more, why should anyone be exempt from paying tax?

Of the vehicles that we have, one costs £485 per year to tax (and does c.7000 miles), another is £30 (and does c.9000), and the third costs £0 and does c.12,000. There just doesn't appear to be any logic to the system, as overall in a single year the £0 rated car will probably churn out more CO2 than the £485 one.

If the system was managed properly incorporating VED and insurance, then it could work. But, unfortunately there are too many vested interests in fleecing us the way that they do.

 

[MichaelE]

If road tax and insurance costs were added to the cost of fuel how would this work for tax exempt vehicles such as for those with disabilities?
it would allow unscrupulous fuel companies to rob us even more than they do already if that were possible.

Lets be realistic its not the fuel companies that rob us is it?
60% of the cost of a litre is tax and vat!!!

 

[NigelHutson]

If road tax and insurance costs were added to the cost of fuel how would this work for tax exempt vehicles such as for those with disabilities?
it would allow unscrupulous fuel companies to rob us even more than they do already if that were possible.

Lets be realistic its not the fuel companies that rob us is it?
60% of the cost of a litre is tax and vat!!!

And only the Government can get away with charging tax on tax (VAT on tax!!)!!!

 

[Gozza]

You can't put diesel in a petrol engine, can you? hmy:

Well you can put it in - it won't work very well afterwards...
What I meant was, there is a well esteblished "Red Diesel" system which seems to work well and is policed and enforced. Extension of the system to include petrol must be possible, if the political will is there.

 

[MichaelE]

I'm gutted that i cant use my nice tax disc holder anymore?

 

[FrintonMike]

I used to think that including car tax in the cost of fuel was a good idea but now I think that if is done how many years would it be before the government think "what can we tax to raise money"." I know what about an annual tax on cars."
We would end up paying twice

 

[Parksy]

I used to think that including car tax in the cost of fuel was a good idea but now I think that if is done how many years would it be before the government think "what can we tax to raise money"." I know what about an annual tax on cars."
We would end up paying twice

I doubt if it would take years, the next budget would do it
The new system should work ok, police officers don't need to see tax disks when there are static ANPR cameras in almost every town and city, on trunk roads, motorways, toll booths etc;

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Just to open things up a little more, why should anyone be exempt from paying tax?

Of the vehicles that we have, one costs £485 per year to tax (and does c.7000 miles), another is £30 (and does c.9000), and the third costs £0 and does c.12,000. There just doesn't appear to be any logic to the system, as overall in a single year the £0 rated car will probably churn out more CO2 than the £485 one.
.

do I detect a hint of clarkson there Nigel :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: I doubt that a zero rated car would churn out more CO2 than a £485 a year one in 5000miles extra the sums dont add up!! unless the zero rated one is disability tax exempt.
which poses another question, why should anyone be tax exempt. simple answer because they deserve it. they have either turned the backs on the fuel guzzlers. or are disabled in which case they need all the help they can get.
one worrying aspect of this reform is the parking duty how to distinguish between genuine disability cars and those who just stick a blue badge on and walk away,
at the moment genuine disability cars are exempt and the disk proves it by having the words [disabled] tax exempt. this allows free parking in many areas where there is still a charge on blue badges.
without the disk how will the Traffic Wardens know the difference in many cases I suspect this concession will be now be removed adding to the cost of living for genuine disabled people who need their cars for mobility.

 

[RogerL]

No such thing as a "genuine disability car", hasn't been for decades.

It's the driver who gets concessions, not the car - at three distinct levels - Blue Badge only / Blue Badge + Lower Level of Disability Benefit / Blue Badge + Higher Level of Disability Benefit.

Where there's a difference in concession between the three levels, it's the driver that provides the proof, not the car - typically toll bridges and toll roads, but not parking.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

No such thing as a "genuine disability car", hasn't been for decades.

It's the driver who gets concessions, not the car - at three distinct levels - Blue Badge only / Blue Badge + Lower Level of Disability Benefit / Blue Badge + Higher Level of Disability Benefit.

Where there's a difference in concession between the three levels, it's the driver that provides the proof, not the car - typically toll bridges and toll roads, but not parking.

not true Roger sorry, just come back from two weeks in Cornwall both there and here in west yorkshire the county council have bye laws that allow cars, with blue badges to park for free, in any car park [providing they are parked in a proper designated bay] and the car is registered as disabled, signified by the tax disk, [ this has the words taxation class (disabled) and the VED (nil) in all other cases the normal fee has to be paid [although other blue badge holders may overstay by one hour after the ticket has expired].
this has nothing to do with the driver as it could be the passenger that is disabled.

 

[RogerL]

Then I stand corrected - it's Motability cars that are VED-exempt but they're regular cars - I've never seen any difference in parking charges between "ordinary" Blue Badge holders and those getting Higher Disability Benefit

Cornwall has some strange by-laws - some of their off-road car parks require the Blue Badge to be the wrong way up, ie showing the photograph not the badge serial number, which can catch out all those who think the display rules are standard throughout Europe, which they are of course for on-road parking.

 

[NigelHutson]

Just to open things up a little more, why should anyone be exempt from paying tax?

Of the vehicles that we have, one costs £485 per year to tax (and does c.7000 miles), another is £30 (and does c.9000), and the third costs £0 and does c.12,000. There just doesn't appear to be any logic to the system, as overall in a single year the £0 rated car will probably churn out more CO2 than the £485 one.
.

do I detect a hint of clarkson there Nigel :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: I doubt that a zero rated car would churn out more CO2 than a £485 a year one in 5000miles extra the sums dont add up!! unless the zero rated one is disability tax exempt.
which poses another question, why should anyone be tax exempt. simple answer because they deserve it. they have either turned the backs on the fuel guzzlers. or are disabled in which case they need all the help they can get.
one worrying aspect of this reform is the parking duty how to distinguish between genuine disability cars and those who just stick a blue badge on and walk away,
at the moment genuine disability cars are exempt and the disk proves it by having the words [disabled] tax exempt. this allows free parking in many areas where there is still a charge on blue badges.
without the disk how will the Traffic Wardens know the difference in many cases I suspect this concession will be now be removed adding to the cost of living for genuine disabled people who need their cars for mobility.

Clarkson? Moi? Sacre bleu! But as we all know, the Government mpg figures (and hence the CO2) are all a great con. Of our cars, the actual mpg achieved by the £485 per year is regularly above the official combined figure, whereas the £0 rated one tends to be at least 20% below. That being the case, the CO2 emissions are probably a lot closer than you would think, especially considering that the more expensive one is used for longer journeys, so gets thoroughly warmed up, and tends to be driven more gently as it's got lots of grunt.

 

[LizziePope]

The day before the rules change, be sure you're up to speed: click here.

 

[Thingy]

I was telling my neighbour about this the other day, he is disabled and uses a blue badge (and he is a genuine user :cheer: )
Apparently on some car parks, the free parking for him is applicable with a blue badge. On others its only applicable with a blue badge AND a zero rated tax disc. Without a tax disc to display, how are the parking vultures going to know if he is legally parking free? Just a thought.

 

[Damian]

The Blue Badge scheme applies to the PERSON, not the car, so they can be in ANY car and still make use of the privileges that the Blue Badge offers.

As far as I know, all Council operated car parks have Blue Badge entitlement but privately operated parks have their own rules, and many have no disabled allowances.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

I was telling my neighbour about this the other day, he is disabled and uses a blue badge (and he is a genuine user :cheer: )
Apparently on some car parks, the free parking for him is applicable with a blue badge. On others its only applicable with a blue badge AND a zero rated tax disc. Without a tax disc to display, how are the parking vultures going to know if he is legally parking free? Just a thought.

if you read further up the thread I made this very point.

The Blue Badge scheme applies to the PERSON, not the car, so they can be in ANY car and still make use of the privileges that the Blue Badge offers.

As far as I know, all Council operated car parks have Blue Badge entitlement but privately operated parks have their own rules, and many have no disabled allowances.

yes and no Damian this is not always the case, also pointed out further up the thread.

anyone with a disability of any sort can apply for a blue badge, these are issued by the local council, the person who has the badge can use it in any car they are driving or be a passenger in.

But a person with a disability that is entitled to mobility componant at the higher rate can choose to either have a full mobility car. or zero rated road tax for their own car.
likewise a person who received the mobility componant but at the lower rate can have their car registered as disabled and zero rated road tax, but not a full mobility car as they are on the lower rate.
in both instances the road tax disc clearly states " taxation class [disabled] " VED [nil] " stamped on the disc displayed in the windscreen.
it is this disc "clearly marked" disabled that the carpark operators use to distinquish between cars with a mobility componant and others that just display a blue badge,
people seem to assumed their is only one use for the badge but there is not.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,

Damian only referred to Blue badge holders he made no mention of the mobility entitlements so his comment is perfectly accurate..

My wife has a blue badge, and she has numerous hospital appointments often up to 6 per month across a number of West Midland Hospitals, Some like the QE at Birmingham have free blue badge parking, where as many others charge blue badge holders the same as none badge holders.

Although hospitals are obliged to offer reduced parking rates for regular or long term parking, because they are are all local to the particular hospital, it can still cost us upwards of £25 per month.

What ever happened to free healthcare?

Apparently hospitals are making a mint out of parking charges.

 

[Thingy]

Colin

if you read further up the thread I made this very point.

Think you will find my point was about zero rated discs, not the blue badge per se.