difference between a 1997 &1995 Caravan

[Paul_374390454]

Hi All

New to the site, but need some advice.

I recently sold our 1997 Elddis Vogue 616 Special Edition 6 berth on ebay. The new buyer is now complaining that it is in fact a 1995 model and wants a refund. I am really sceptical as i bought it 5 years ago as a 1997 and have the bill to prove as such.

What i am wondering is or does anyone know is there any difference between these models and does anyone know how much the value of the elddis as i sold it for £1200 which i thought was cheap!!

mnay Thanks

 

[vernon]

Do you have the VIN number on your original receipt, if so try this:-

SGAS000AVY0001234 SG = Manufactured in UK

SGAS000AVY0001234 A = Make of caravan is Avondale

SGAS000AVY0001234 S = Number of axles (S=Single, T=Twin)

SGAS000AVY0001234 Optional manufacturer's data (eg caravan model?)

SGAS000AVY0001234 Manufactured by AVondale

SGAS000AVY0001234 Year of manufacture (Y = 2000 - see list below)

SGAS000AVY0001234 Optional manufacturer's data (eg batch number?)

SGAS000AVY0001234 Caravan serial number

Year of manufacture codes.

N = 1992

P = 1993

R = 1994

S = 1995

T = 1996

V = 1997

W = 1998

X = 1999

Y = 2000

1 = 2001

2 = 2002

3 = 2003

4 = 2004

5 = 2005

6 = 2006

 

[Lee.C]

Hi Paul

I have all the brochures for Elddis vans from 95 to present day. The 95 brochure does not mention the Vogue range but in the 96 it states it as being in its 2nd year and if I remember I think they came out during 95. In 96 they were known as numbers but in 97 they began to use names and the model range was changed from 10 to 7 models and what was the 616 was deleted in 96.

It is possible that it was a 96 model but not registered until 97 or a dealer special which may still use numbers.

If it is a 616 it will have the entrance door at the front from 97 they were all at the rear.

Hope some of this helps.

Lee.C

P.S.

If anyone else needs any info or spec for Elddis vas from 95 to present just ask

 

[Paul_374390454]

Hi Paul

I have all the brochures for Elddis vans from 95 to present day. The 95 brochure does not mention the Vogue range but in the 96 it states it as being in its 2nd year and if I remember I think they came out during 95. In 96 they were known as numbers but in 97 they began to use names and the model range was changed from 10 to 7 models and what was the 616 was deleted in 96.

It is possible that it was a 96 model but not registered until 97 or a dealer special which may still use numbers.

If it is a 616 it will have the entrance door at the front from 97 they were all at the rear.

Hope some of this helps.

Lee.C

P.S.

If anyone else needs any info or spec for Elddis vas from 95 to present just ask

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[Paul_374390454]

Hi Paul

I have all the brochures for Elddis vans from 95 to present day. The 95 brochure does not mention the Vogue range but in the 96 it states it as being in its 2nd year and if I remember I think they came out during 95. In 96 they were known as numbers but in 97 they began to use names and the model range was changed from 10 to 7 models and what was the 616 was deleted in 96.

It is possible that it was a 96 model but not registered until 97 or a dealer special which may still use numbers.

If it is a 616 it will have the entrance door at the front from 97 they were all at the rear.

Hope some of this helps.

Lee.C

P.S.

If anyone else needs any info or spec for Elddis vas from 95 to present just ask

L

e

e

T

h

a

n

k

s

f

o

r

y

o

u

r

h

e

l

p

 

[Paul_374390454]

Lee

Thanks for info.Mine was a 30SE if that helps at all. I have done some research and by the looks of it a 95 & 97 are identicle models.

Any idea how i can get copys of the elddis brochures for these years to send to the buyer to confirm this?? also any idea odf valuations for these models??

Many thanks & happy Xmas

Paul

Sorry about the glitch earlier on the comments i was sending you a reply and my pc went haywire, Xmas gremlins!!!!!!!

 

[Rioja]

Hi Paul,

How long is it since you sold the van ? Is it still in the same condition etc ?

Although it seems a bit trivial to complain when the price was only

 

[Dustydog]

Paul

Why does the buyer say it is a 1995 model? Where's his evidence?

Cheers

Alan

 

[GeorgeB]

Paul,

if the other party & yourself are "private" citizens & the sale of the van was NOT as part of a business, then I'm afraid he has absolutely NO comeback on you whatsoever.

Its called "Caveat Emptor", let the buyer beware! if you sold the van in good faith & he bought it in good faith then thats as far as it goes, he can huff & puff as much as he likes but he has no legal redress whatsoever!

Unfortunately its a common ploy to try to get some money back from a private seller, just tell him politely to "go away"

 

[Rioja]

That's interesting George. I guess as Paul has an invoice saying the van is a '97 one he has proof of good faith but just how much leeway can be allowed ? What if the difference in age had been 10 years ? The book value would be huge. Not that I'm suggesting for one minute any malpractice in this case, far from it, but couldn't invoices be falsified ? Are you saying the buyer has to check the age of the van indepenantly ?

 

[weejock]

I would not only be checking the age but the cris number as well as evrything else that was described.

If you do not you only have yourself to blame as George has pointed out.

 

[Lee.C]

Paul

You will find it almost impossible to find old brochures but you could try www.elddisowners.co.uk or navigate www.explorer-group.co.uk but I agree with slowcoach the cris number shoul show the year it was built.

Good Luck and Merry Xmas

 

[Paul_374390454]

Hi all

I have had it confirmed that the caravan is in fact a 95/96 by the caravan club they also valued it for me at

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Yeah, tell him to FO.

I doubt you'll hear anything else. You have your proof that you thought it was a 1997 (invoice) & he got it cheap at

 

[Parksy]

Hi Paul

I'm no expert but you sold the caravan in good faith and the buyer agreed to pay the price that he paid.

I'd say that it was up to the buyer to prove that the caravan was 1995/6 at the time of purchase or walk away and not buy the caravan. You didn't deliberately set out to mislead the buyer and they should have had a good look over the caravan before parting with their money.

Caveat Emptor as George B mentioned earlier means 'buyer beware' so the buyer should have done his homework BEFORE buying the caravan unless you had offered to re negotiate the price at the time that the sale took place if the description turned out to be wrong.

Go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau who will tell you how to go about defending yourself in respect of this claim. You will probably be advised to write to the County Court outlining the facts of the matter.

 

[SimonB]

I think that the date it was purchased would be the right date to look into and not the manufacture. It may of been made in december 95 and not sold to the customer until January 97. In which case I would say it was 97. Cars can be standing for a couple of years before being sold and they go on the date first registered.

 

[BobbyBoy_374399080]

Paul

If the 10th character of the Vin number is S then its a 1995 model and should be valued as such.

Just because it was first sold or CRiS registered in 1997 doesnt change the fact it is a 1995 model.

Any caravan dealer will value it as a 1995.

Having said that

 

[ANDREW_374368566]

Hi

Vogue was launched in 95 as a limited editionn range due to Elddis 30th b/day. In 96 it was then made as part of the range.

 

[Quack]

If he is adamant about requiring his money back I would check the van and if all is the same as when you sold it, return his money and resell at the higher valuation you got from the CC.

Double your money??

 

[DJGB]

Sorry, have to disagree with Andrew, the 1997 Elddis Vougue had burgundy striping, the green colouring was for dealer special, ie Ebor, Alfresco, etc.

The 1997 Vogue 616 was show at the Lawns Show in September 1996, however by the time of the Earls Court show all the models had 'wind' namees - the 212 became Whirlwind, 215 - Hurricane, 516 Cyclone. The 616 model was also dropped, however some were produced and sold either as the 616 or Cyclone6. At the time dealers Michael Jordan Caravans and Glossop Caravans had adverts offering these caravans at 'special prices'.

So, your caravan cold be a 1997 model, post a picture and I'll tell you.

Hope this is of some help.

David

 

[Dustydog]

Paul

Is it possible for you to paste the wording of your original advert here?

Now the bloke has started a small claims court action against you it is essential you start collating all your evidence to demonstrate you never in any way whatsoever attempted to deceive him.

Can you check the e-bay site and see what warning they give to prospective purchasers? Parksy's Caveat emptor point may be contained within e-bay guidelines.

It's good news regarding the CC valuations but I guess that it is not that relevant if this bloke can prove he was deliberately mislead.

Be careful now as the clock is ticking and there are very strict time guidelines. If you breach these it will cost you the case. Be aware to, he who loses will usually have to pay the other sides cost. I have no wish to scarfe you but just make you aware a sensible well constructed defence with supporting documentation is key to you winning.

Glenn's comment is emotional and I would feel the same. Unfortunately telling someone to go to the Foreign Office doesn't help once litigation has commenced.

Do you have any legal expenses insurance that may possbibly cover this matter, eg household or caravan insurance??

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Edward_374399640]

Bob

The only way to tell a model year is by reading the Vin number (forget about colours of the decals ! these could have been replaced at any time by any previous owner)

The Vin numder has 17 characters and was introduced in 1992. All UK manufactured caravans since 1992 have these etched onto every window (bottom right corner) and LAZER etched onto the A-Frame. All these number will be identical so check them - any differences is a cause for concern. Although an odd window or two could mean that these windows were replaced by secondhand units of course. BUT the A-Frame number is the most important - its must be LAZER etched and NOT stamped or altered in any way. Most common is the 0 made in an 8, 6 made into an 8.

The 10th character is the model year and in 1992 is was a N.

There was no O, Q, or U. In 2001 the character became a number, 1, this year its a 9.

The model year starts in Sept and ends Aug.

For example the 1992 model year ran from sept 1992 to Aug 1993.

So a caravan sold in Aug 1993 with the letter N would be valued as a 1992 model.

Dont be fooled by any invoice as proof of model year or date of first CRiS registration, is the Vin number that demotes it. The caravan could have been stood around for years before it was sold.

Check out our Vin. A previous post details how the Vin number character system works.

eg. 4th character is either an S or a T, which denotes Single or Twin axle.

Regards

Eddy

 

[Lisa_374400059]

Hi Paul,

Sorry to hear you're getting hassled by the buyer especially when he got a very good deal.

This is completely off topic but I own a 96 Vogue SE (was told it was a 97 as it was first sold or registered then despite being manufactured in 96). Unfortunately we bought it last summer without a manual and I have been unable to find anyone with the same caravan so maybe you can help me on two queries:

1. Is there any way of making the beds at the back into a double bed

2. On the electric panel there is a control for a fan, which we presumed was for electric heating. It doesn't seem to work - none of the vents are blowing air - someone thought it might be to blow heat from the gas heater? Is there electric heating with this van?

Many thanks, Lisa

 

[Lisa_374400059]

Sorry got mixed up, it is a 96 model which was made in 95)

 

[Paul_374390454]

Hi Lisa

They are great vans arnt they? Ours gave us so many good holidays.

The bed problem is solved by in the cuboard under chest of draws there should be a ladder item, slot it down the runners of the two rear seats and pull it out.

The fan switch does blow the heat around the caravan try changing the fuse, or sometimes they run so quiet that you cannot hear them.Ours always took ages to heat up so we always used a oil filled rad found it was a lot warmer at night and you can leave them on safely as long as you like.

Can ask you a huge favour??? The new buyer is insistant on taking me to court over the year to try and claw some money back which i think is unfair as he has such a bargain and i did not realise the caravan was any thing but a 1997.

If you get time could you email over just a brief email to confirm that you to bought the same caravan in the same circumstances and how much you paid for it, Hopefully it will prove to the court that he did indeed get a bargain, fingers crossed!! In return i will send you back a copy of a valuation for the Elddis model that you have, I bought it as part of my defense but it may come in handy if you ever (god forbid) need to claim off your insurance.

Many thanks for any help you can give me.

Regards

Paul

pdh71uk@yahoo.co.uk