Disgracefull service

[Steve L]

We purchased a second hand caravan from a dealership in Gloucestershire that has depots in Gloucester and Coleford. We delt with the so called partner in the Coleford branch

Having agreed the price and paying a £500 deposit we were told that the van would be serviced and valeted for the following saturday.

We duly arrived that day together with the balance of the cash in hand, which now meant he'd had best part of 10 K off us.

The van looked fine so we hitched up and left. Then the fun started.

My better half wiped the fridge over to clean it for her satisfaction, as you do, and promptly found the freezer door seal split and mouldy. So the valeting wasn't the best. I rang the partner of the dealership and told him what we'd found. he said he'd get straight onto thetford for a replacement and would post it to me. That was 3 weeks ago. Yesterday a jiffy bag arrived with a badly packaged broken secondhand and dirty door in it.

I the mean time, we were having great difficulty getting the gas to work. I changed the new bottle adaptor they'd supplied to a better calor one. But on doing so, I was horrified to find that the new flexi pipe had not been tightened onto the regulator!! It was barely finger tight. We would of most certainly been leaking gass had we got to use it!!

I realy wonder what the hell these franchised dealers think they are playing at!!

I'm going to contact Thetford myself to see what they do about customer relations and perhaps supporting a no holes barred name and shame of tradesmen who not only soil their reputation but also blame the manufacturer for taking 3 weeks to deliver a part. But the this so called new part turns out to be one from a breakers yard that hasn't even been cleaned.

It's one thing to be full of B S as a dealer, but to malign other industry comrades is realy out of order.

When I had my own firm, I always drummed into the workforce that the 999 jobs done right are always forgotten, but the 1 job you bodge up hoping no one will notice ALWAYS GETS FOUND OUT and you live by that one bodged reputation.

Rant over.

But what do you the caravanning public think?

Steve L.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Steve - that is the trouble with this forum. We are allowed to name and praise as much as we like but when it comes to name and shame the boot is on the other foot. I think that we should have the oppertunity to name and shame so that the company can get their act together and improve the quality of service and also to advise the public what type of service they can expect from such a poorly run company.

In your situation as the van is not fit for purpose and sold to you with defective parts you could either reject the van and demand a total refund of money or threaten them in the small claims court for compensation and also to make good all defects to your satisfaction. Good luck in your quest for satisfaction and hopefully all will right itself soon.

 

[Guest]

But what do you the caravanning public think?⇦br/>

I think, fwiw, that the service you received is pretty much par for the course.

Only a couple of days ago I discovered that a gas pigtail hose, fitted on a new van by a dealer whose name bears more than a passing resemblance to Wandering Homes, had not been tightened up!

Honestly.

I'd noticed a smell of gas from time to time - but thought it was the connection I had made when fitting a Gaslow gauge. I never even thought of checking the pigtail coming from the bulkhead regulator.

Then I went to fit a 'thumb wheel' pigtail hose - and hoped that they hadn't overtightened the original one

I needn't have worried - the useless &*&^'s had only finger tightened it - and that was where the gas had been leaking.

I wouldn't trust Wandering Homes to pick up litter correctly - and, sadly, there are far too many other caravan dealers who are just as bad as them.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

Your adage is quite correct, But also bad news spreads ten times faster than good!

Seems a clear case for Sale of goods and Trading Standards.

Colin,

I think it is sensible approach not to allow negative name and shame on this forum. Basically as the forum is not fully moderated, and the contributors are anonymous, then it would be possible for someone to run an unfair hate campaign against a business or individual, by flooding the forum with negative postings.

Faced with a flood of negative or even defamatory and inaccurate posts may affect the business or individual when in fact there may be no case to answer. The posts may be libellous, and that may also reflect on the site's host, as they vet contributors.

Any one with a genuine complaint should seek resolution through private channels, but may report progress ins a generalised way, such as happens at the moment.

 

[Steve L]

John, I fully understand where you are comming from.

However, if we allow dealers to shout about their wonderfull service to the public when in reality they do quite the opposite, then surely that is just as bad as the shoddy and as both selwyn and I have found, potentially fatally explosive dangerous practices they get upto when our trust has been endowed to them.

What I would like to see is a fully moderated topic on the forum where perhaps 7 to 14 days have elapsed from first notification of customer disatisfaction report, toallow both the offender (the company) and the plaintif (us) to try to resolve the dispute before it then becomes public knowledge. After all you get a "cooling off period" on finance deals/contracts.

That way the companies have time to put things right, but know they are under close scruitany, and risk being exposed for their dastardly deed.

In my case I've found the head office for Thetford which is in the USA, and have E mail'd them.

Now waiting for the S*1t to roll down hill as they say.

Steve L.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Steve

What a pi$$er and what a terrible start to your new toy. Totally unacceptable.

Was it "Apple- man -riggs"? Well similar if you get my drift.

Yes there should be name and shame.

Ok over the years my various Baileys have had minor faults all of which have been corrected quickly by my Dealer, Chipping Sodbury Caravans. They understand what customer service and QA/ QC is all about.

Equally my FiL had no end of problems with "Wide Roads".

So here again it has to be said choose your Dealer and make of caravan very carefully or face disappointment.

This is an open forum and it is only fair that both good and bad comments are made about dealers and manufacturers.

Cheers

Alan

 

[weejock]

I do think this idea of being allowed to post negative comment's after a 14 day consultaion is a very good idea.

This would after all hopefully give us what we want (our vans working in correct order). And equally if the dealer new this was being monitored he will probally sharpen up his act as after 5 or 6 of these cases most people would realise the dealer was not up to much in the first place.

To me this would make thing's a bit fairer because just now a dealer can have praised heaped upon him but no critism. I do accept the point's about mallicious posters and feel that this idea would weed them out.

It may also help the dealers if a customer is being unreasonable in their demands as I am quite sure a few poster's here would tell them thus lending a balance to the report.

Over to you Nigel

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Slowcoach

I too fully agree with Steve's suggestion.

However you will know my previous requests for an article on QA/ QC have fallen on deaf ears.

Why? I'll tell you why. PC cannot afford to upset all the dealers and manufacturers who waste tens of thousands of pounds advertising in the mag. No adverts , no mag? True maybe but then you have to ask yourself why do we read PC at all??

I like the mag but some of the underlying politics do not sit comfy with me.

Cheers

Alan

 

[ed1]

hello selwyn,

ive just picked up my new caravan from wandahome in knottingley, it was a week late due to an electric problem, only identified when we were checking the caravan before leaving with it, they fixed it the following week, and we picked it up on saturday, are you saying i should check my gas connections aswell, as we havent been away yet and are due to go on wedsnesday this week, i think this is a serious matter, did you let them know of your problem, .....as this being the norm nowadays, i think that is sad, we have bought caravans from at least 5 different dealers over 20 years, and gone back to one of them, 4 times to purchase again, not because of good aftercare, but because we liked them, we choose wandahome this time as they had the good deal, and yet its not just caravans is it, ive had worst experiences in car showrooms, (not with my last 3 vehicles though, landrovers), but with luxury sports cars, im not even going to start on that, give me a caravan dealer anyday, thankyou selwyn for the info, regards ED, (heading for the gas locker as we speak)(oh and this is not a name and shame, this is a legitimate message, )

 

[Guest]

Hi Ed,

I can't speak for your supplier - but I can say that Wandering Homes in south Cave are, without doubt, the worst company that I've ever dealt with for caravan or car purchase.

Our van did not have a pre delivery inspection, no water had been put through the system. The gas pigtail was fitted at the moment of collection (so I assume that no gas test had been done previously) the interior had been damaged - and I had to pursue a salesman around the site trying to get the problem sorted. They fitted a leisure battery that I purchased from Waudby's at the time of collection - but failed to fir the holding clamp. If I had not noticed, the battery would probably have fallen out of the side of the van during the journey home.

I also purchased an Alko extended neck ball - which they wanted to bolt on without removing the paint (which would have contaminated the friction pads) Luckily I had anticipated the need to remove the paint, and went to the handover equipped with some wet & dry paper - but left to Wandering Homes the Alko would have been ruined before I arrived home.

Subsequent to collection I found some other faults - Wandering Homes had left out two bolts from the Reich mover, causing slippage. It was easier to get the bolts from Reich (who are very helpful) and fit them myself. I also found that several other bolts on the Reich had not been fully tightened.

The electrical cables for the mover were cut to unequal lengths (recommend that they be the same length) and Wandering Homes had splintered the underside of the floor when drilling through and had hadn't bothered to seal the damaged area.

There were other problems which Wandering Homes could not have been less interested in hearing about - but which were resolved without fuss by Camper UK, who are as good as Wandering Homes are bad.

As for the gas - as I said, Wandering Homes fitted the propane pigtail when I arrived to collect the caravan. I assumed that they had tightened it up.

I noticed a smell of gas from time to time - but put it down to the Gaslow gauge that I fitted myself, and kept trying to tighten the Gaslow more securely.

I just didn't think about checking the pigtail (which, on reflection, I should have done)

The van had a damp test after 12 months (to keep the warranty live, you can do that with some German vans) but I chose not to have a full service carried out due to low mileage - otherwise I'm sure the loose pigtail connection would have come to light.

I then decided to fir a 'thumb wheel' pigtail connection (less than a fiver from BES - great value) to avoid faffing about with a gas spanner when changing bottles.

When I went to remove the pigtail fitted by Wandering Homes I found that it was only finger tight. It hadn't been touched since they 'fitted' it - so that's how they left it.

Your mileage with Wandering Homes might vary - but I'd rather buy my next van from a tinker in a lay-by than have anything else to do with them.

 

[ProfJohnL]

John, I fully understand where you are comming from.

However, if we allow dealers to shout about their wonderfull service to the public when in reality they do quite the opposite, then surely that is just as bad as the shoddy and as both selwyn and I have found, potentially fatally explosive dangerous practices they get upto when our trust has been endowed to them.

What I would like to see is a fully moderated topic on the forum where perhaps 7 to 14 days have elapsed from first notification of customer disatisfaction report, toallow both the offender (the company) and the plaintif (us) to try to resolve the dispute before it then becomes public knowledge. After all you get a "cooling off period" on finance deals/contracts.

That way the companies have time to put things right, but know they are under close scruitany, and risk being exposed for their dastardly deed.

In my case I've found the head office for Thetford which is in the USA, and have E mail'd them.

Now waiting for the S*1t to roll down hill as they say.

Steve L.

That sounds like a sensible approach, though I dont think Haymarket will cough up the necessary spndollies to pay a moderator. and actually that is a role that some magazines play.

There is of course the Consumers Association (Which? magazine) which does just that.

 

[Parksy]

This forum works in as much as we can alert each other to problems with our caravans and sometimes find advice and solutions from the forum.

As John rightly says, one disgruntled customer could have a seriously adverse effect on a business and forum admin and mods have no way of knowing if a complaint is accurately reported so I can't imagine this forum allowing a name and shame policy at the moment. I don't know of any caravan forum which actually names names in a specific way although many allow members to post enough general information in the form of 'clues'.

There are legal mechanisms in place for seeking redress in the case of genuine complaints and all that forums can do is to warn others in general terms.

The message is for us all to check caravans carefully when we collect them from both dealers and private vendors.

By reading of some of the pitfalls on caravan forums buyers will become wiser and much harder to please and one would hope that some of the more common instances of 'sharp practice' that we may read about will dissapear.

The message as ever is buyer beware.

 

[ed1]

Hi Ed,

I can't speak for your supplier - but I can say that Wandering Homes in south Cave are, without doubt, the worst company that I've ever dealt with for caravan or car purchase.

Our van did not have a pre delivery inspection, no water had been put through the system. The gas pigtail was fitted at the moment of collection (so I assume that no gas test had been done previously) the interior had been damaged - and I had to pursue a salesman around the site trying to get the problem sorted. They fitted a leisure battery that I purchased from Waudby's at the time of collection - but failed to fir the holding clamp. If I had not noticed, the battery would probably have fallen out of the side of the van during the journey home.

I also purchased an Alko extended neck ball - which they wanted to bolt on without removing the paint (which would have contaminated the friction pads) Luckily I had anticipated the need to remove the paint, and went to the handover equipped with some wet & dry paper - but left to Wandering Homes the Alko would have been ruined before I arrived home.

Subsequent to collection I found some other faults - Wandering Homes had left out two bolts from the Reich mover, causing slippage. It was easier to get the bolts from Reich (who are very helpful) and fit them myself. I also found that several other bolts on the Reich had not been fully tightened.

The electrical cables for the mover were cut to unequal lengths (recommend that they be the same length) and Wandering Homes had splintered the underside of the floor when drilling through and had hadn't bothered to seal the damaged area.

There were other problems which Wandering Homes could not have been less interested in hearing about - but which were resolved without fuss by Camper UK, who are as good as Wandering Homes are bad.

As for the gas - as I said, Wandering Homes fitted the propane pigtail when I arrived to collect the caravan. I assumed that they had tightened it up.

I noticed a smell of gas from time to time - but put it down to the Gaslow gauge that I fitted myself, and kept trying to tighten the Gaslow more securely.

I just didn't think about checking the pigtail (which, on reflection, I should have done)

The van had a damp test after 12 months (to keep the warranty live, you can do that with some German vans) but I chose not to have a full service carried out due to low mileage - otherwise I'm sure the loose pigtail connection would have come to light.

I then decided to fir a 'thumb wheel' pigtail connection (less than a fiver from BES - great value) to avoid faffing about with a gas spanner when changing bottles.

When I went to remove the pigtail fitted by Wandering Homes I found that it was only finger tight. It hadn't been touched since they 'fitted' it - so that's how they left it.

Your mileage with Wandering Homes might vary - but I'd rather buy my next van from a tinker in a lay-by than have anything else to do with them.

hello selwyn,

i do know the feeling, and that is why we double double check things now, but it does stem from car dealers and not caravan ones, although the one i never thought of coming across was a caravan dealer who went bust, and ayear after we bought our caravan from them, (cash payment), we received a letter from a solicitor asking for us to pay for the caravan or face court proceedings, luckily i save everything, (we run 2 businesses)and unfortunately they were not getting a penny, as we still had the receipt, when i asked about complaining about the accusation i was told i couldnt do anything, as it was probably an error, yeh right, me thinks my cash went in thier pocket.....checked the pipe and fittings and so far so good....regards ED

 

[RayS]

while I have some sympathy with Steve's point about a fully moderated forum with a time delay to permit reconcilliation, this would introduce the same time lag into all posts, since all would have to be read to check for legal complications etc. and would require "professional" moderators rather than the present band of happy amateurs. The "professionals" would, presumably, have to be employed by Haymarket, whereas we are not.

So on the basis of the greatest good for the greatest number perhaps things are better as they are ?

As my colleague has said, there are remedies available and some of these e.g. Trading Standards and Small Claims Courts are much more user friendly than in the past. Sometimes the formal notification that these are about to be invoked is sufficient to cause a rapid change in attitude by the "offender".

At least one of the major clubs offers a legal advice service to members.

I appreciate that all this is of little comfort in the circumstances, but as they say "don't get mad, get even"

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Parksy,

Ok we have to be politically correct but only because Lord Hezza doesn't want a libel action taken out against him!.

The reality is , and you partly say this, a lot of us hard working tuggers want to suck each others brains for as much info as possible before parting with our hard earned cash.

Now even you with all the electronic tools you have can smell a forum rat, trouble maker a mile away.

So on the basis you , I, and everyone else is "known" why can't we tell the truth who's rubbish?

For example it must be obvious to a child that the purchase of an "Avonlady" product , at the moment , may be fraught with danger.I can see spare parts becoming as rare as rocking horse s??t.

And then we have had no end of serious complaints from a number of individuals about their "Swallow" products.

Equally of course it must be noted there are just as many compliments.

During World War 2 people like Michael Foot fought for freedom of the press, Surely we can have open freedom of view on this forum some 60 years on?

Cheers

Alan

 

[KnL]

John, I fully understand where you are comming from.

However, if we allow dealers to shout about their wonderfull service to the public when in reality they do quite the opposite, then surely that is just as bad as the shoddy and as both selwyn and I have found, potentially fatally explosive dangerous practices they get upto when our trust has been endowed to them.

What I would like to see is a fully moderated topic on the forum where perhaps 7 to 14 days have elapsed from first notification of customer disatisfaction report, toallow both the offender (the company) and the plaintif (us) to try to resolve the dispute before it then becomes public knowledge. After all you get a "cooling off period" on finance deals/contracts.

That way the companies have time to put things right, but know they are under close scruitany, and risk being exposed for their dastardly deed.

In my case I've found the head office for Thetford which is in the USA, and have E mail'd them.

Now waiting for the S*1t to roll down hill as they say.

Steve L.

Steve,

Along with the other responders to your post I am sorry that you are having problems and wish you a speedy conclusion.

On another note, can you post Thetfords head office Email address please.

I have been in consultation with the company over safety issues around one of their cleaning products and I think that GB and EU Customer Services have lost interest as they are no longer responding.

I thought I was dealing with the parent company when I started Emailing Europe and I'm about to contact Trading Standards, but I'll give head office a chance to respond first.

Thanks,

Ken.

 

[Parksy]

Hi Alan

I'm all for freedom of view but to actually name names when complaining on the forum is i.m.h.o. open to abuse. (it's not up to me anyway) As I mentioned, there are many ways of leaving clues and I hate to see anyone be short changed and swindled when buying a caravan.

I don't know what the legal position is where actual names are mentioned but I'll try and find out from forum admin where we all stand.

I love the bit about the 'electronic tools' b.t.w.

If this forum had those smiley thingy's there'd be a long row of them absoulutely p- ing themselves on this post.

I've had occasion to praise Swifts on another thread today as it happens but nobody's going to sue me for praising them are they?

I'll do my best to find out what's what and report back.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Parksy

Ultimately Lord Hezza rules so I guess that's that. As you say we can "hint". A shame because loads of other forums don't pull their punches but I do understand your point re the salaried Mods. That would be too big brother for me.

And I also thought they gave you mods electronic acess to everything!! smiles

Cheers

Alan

 

[weejock]

Well Parksy and Ray it is nice to at least get an acknowledgment from you guy's about this issue. Are you listening the club that allows tent's.

What I meant by the delay was to allow the outline of an a grievances to be posted and then after a certain period the full details made public.

I feel that this would achieve a number of goals.

1 hopefully genuine complaints would be resolved.

2 A complaint for a manufacturer need not necessarily be a bad experience or bad publicity as witnessed by many on this forum as I believe one mover company in particular gets great reports about it's terrific after sales even though it could be viewed that these are product faults.

3 Manufacturers would get greater cover from rogue posters who could as some one has suggested use a name like swallow and make numerous false complaints completely anonymously. By going for a set period it could be stipulated that there detail are made public at the end in fairness to all.

I do appreciate that you mods do just that and moderate but surely someone listens to suggestion's you make for taking the site forward.

 

[Damian]

If I may, I would like to add to this topic and say that I would dearly love to see a Name and Shame section in the forum.

I would have quite a few candidates to add to the list.

But, and this is the big but, any complaint is purely subjective by the complainant, and as such cannot be verified and proven, even though it may well be truthful.

There are people who would use the forum to misalign dealers simply on vindictive reasoning and not as the result of a genuine grievance, and it is those postings which could lead to problems.

It is also not a requirement for any company to justify their stance on a public forum, and indeed Swift and Bailey have taken a very brave step in contributing to the forums directly, but they didnt have to.

The other problem is that contracts are between the seller and buyer, not including the wider public or trial by forum, and disputes must follow the laid down complaints procedure.

At the end of the day, no matter what is said on a forum it is not binding, unlike the remedies available to the purchaser in the form of the Sale and Supply of Goods Act and Trading Standards as well as the Small Claims Court.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The big problem with the idea of posting an outline an then following it up with details, is that it would need some compulsion to get the parties to actually follow it up.

Humans are notoriously lazy, and it is quite likely that the follow up would be forgotten, so the forum would be littered with incomplete events.

The reason it would need a paid moderator, is that it would take a considerable amount of time to monitor the posts, and to ensure that fair and reasonable answers were forthcoming from both sides of the complaint. How can the forum offer a balanced and accurate review of a situation if the other party simply refuses to reply?

There are usually two sides to any argument, and sometimes both sides can have elements of right, and of course sometimes both sides can be very wrong. So who is the arbiter?

It has also been correctly pointed out that if a customer has an issue with a purchase; it is subject to a contract. It might be considered a breach of contract if the details were publicly aired without the consent of both parties.

 

[Parksy]

Forum Admin have replied today to my question about naming and shaming the companies that our members feel have given less than satisfactory service.

The answer refers to rule 4 of forum etiquette and Admin point out that although as a forum we might sympathise with our members we have no way of establishing the exact nature of any complaint.

Facts could be disputed and firms who are named might suffer without having the opportunity to defend themselves on the forum as the caravan manufacturers who take part in this forum can.

Forum Admin's legal eagle is about to let us know if there are any legal issues that we're not yet aware of so the whole things a bit of a minefield I'm afraid.

This is a caravan forum so imho for those with issues that can be proven or with supporting evidence to back up complaints perhaps it might be better to do as was s*gest*d earlier ;0)

 

[weejock]

Thanks for trying Parksy. I am sure you will keep us posted of any updates.

 

[Surfer]

Why not keep it simple and do a "Right to reply". Dissatisfied customers write in listing complaints. This is done on a pre-formatted form requesting dates, nature of repair, with whom they spoke, any action taken, etc.

This is not published on a forum at this stage. PC then forward the letter onto the dealer asking them to reply to the allegations but advising that if there is no reply within a specified time the letter will be publish because obviously there may be some truth in the allegations.

The dealer is also advised that if they do respond the response may be published therefore it would be in the their best interest to resolve any problems or to explain the reason for the delays.

If the OP is exagerrating then this may be exposed when the dealer replies so theer are soem safeguards built in. Points are awarded against a dealers name allowing others to see if they are good or poor at responding and whether theri servcie is up to scratch.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

Its nice idea, but as I pointed out before, it would need some one to be given the specific responsibility to monitor and administer it. It would be unreasonable to expect any of the forums voluntary moderators to take on the role, as it would not only require the time to do it but it also needs someone to who is prepared to to make judgments about specifics, and that could leave them open to litigation.

I don't see it happening, unless Haymarket are prepared to appoint someone, with the necessary legal backing and a salary