Do I really need propane?

[ScouseIan]

Going away to Chirk on 27th december. First time away in winter (only 4th trip actually).

Q. Do I really need to switch to Propane? Also what is involved? I have a 2008 Bailey Pageant. I haven't ordered any propane yet.

Also, what other considerations should I be making? How likely is it that the water will freeze overnight?

If I put the electric heater on 1000 setting overnight I would hope that this would make things warm enough.

Many thanks

 

[JTQ]

If it does not fall below 4 to 6 Degrees centigrade you will limp by with Butane.

If it falls below that and you want the heating on it will not function for long on Butane before the bottle gets too cold to gas off.

 

[RayS]

Yes, change to propane - orange cylinders. If you have a modern van with the regulator fixed to the van this will cope with either propane or butance, although you may need a different connection hose. A 2008 van should be so equipped.

If you are taking water from an aquaroll or other container outside the van, yes there is a risk that the container - or more likely the hose from the submersible pump to the van will freeze. if you have an onboard tank then this should not freeze if the van itself is kept warm, so fill it during the day.

If external container and weather cold then lag the pipes between container and van - old jackets seem to do a good job if not particularly elegant.

As for internal heating, if the site supply is 16 amp then you can use any of the settings on the heater - the thrmostat will sort out the temperature inside - it will just get there quicker if you use the 2000 setting rather than the 1000. You can use the fan to circulate the warm air - this gets all parts of the van warm.

Do the sums - see CC handbook about your total electrical load so that you do not overlaod the supply point.

 

[RayS]

Sorry, should have said you need to change your butane cylinder (blue) for propane - orange or red. Propane is good all the year round, particularly in UK.

 

[Mike_5040866]

Just back after a cold few weeks

Had to change to propane as temp dropped at 8pm one night.

Thinking of changing to the new propane where you can see the level of gas in the bottle.

 

[ScouseIan]

Hmmmmm

Will have to buy some propane this week then.

As I understand it then my 2008 caravan should already be equipped for Propane (its in storage so can't just *** out and have a look).

Ray, you say I may need a hose, but what for? And, I thought it needed a different regulator????? or, have I got it?? where is it???

aaaaaarrrggg

 

[JTQ]

Yes you have it slightly wrong.

With your 2008 van the regulator itself is suitable for either propane or butane so that does not need touching.

However the high pressure hose that connects between the bottle/cylinder and the regulator is gas specific by virtue of its bottle end fitting.

So its of to a caravan accessories outlet to buy the correct propane high pressure hose, as well as get a propane bottle exchange. There is a "Gaslow" made hose that can be hand tightened onto the bottle, in your position I would go for that as opposed to one needing a spanner however its a refinement not an essential. I will see if I can find a link so you know what to look for, Cheers john

 

[JTQ]

Yes you have it slightly wrong.

With your 2008 van the regulator itself is suitable for either propane or butane so that does not need touching.

However the high pressure hose that connects between the bottle/cylinder and the regulator is gas specific by virtue of its bottle end fitting.

So its of to a caravan accessories outlet to buy the correct propane high pressure hose, as well as get a propane bottle exchange. There is a "Gaslow" made hose that can be hand tightened onto the bottle, in your position I would go for that as opposed to one needing a spanner however its a refinement not an essential. I will see if I can find a link so you know what to look for, Cheers john

Its the red plastic handle one featured on this page agianst the blue background;

http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pages/c_s2_4.htm

 

[Happy-Lappy]

Ian,

As your caravan is a 2008 model, then the Regulator will be in the front locker attatched to the Bulkhead.

As for the new Hose (commonly known as a Pigtail), Propane and Butane have diferrent attatchments. Butane bottles have a quick release clip-on end, or normal BSP Threaded Nut. Propane bottles have a Bullnose end on the hose, which has a 'Left Handed' BSP Thread,

hope this helps, Martin

 

[MikeyW]

We had a 2007 Pageant and used propane. You need to replace the pipe from the regulator to the bottle. The regulator is located in the front locker on the bulkhead and is ok to use with propane or butane. You can get the pipe from any caravan accesory shop, we had one with a 'hand wheel' on one end for easy fitting/removal from bottle without the need for a spanner.

Hope this helps

Mike

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

As you have a 2008 caravan, you already have the necessary regulator - it should be a 30mBar device. This will be fitted to the front wall of your caravan. There is now a common regulator pressure for both Propane and Butane

To change to propane, you will need to obtain and change the short length of pipe (pig tail) that goes between the bottle and the regulator. This comes with the necessary bottle connector already fitted. Your caravan dealer should be able to supply.

If you are unsure of what is needed or how to fit and test the parts, I strongly suggest you have your dealer fit them for you. It is a relatively quick job,and they will have all the necessary tools, and test gear to check the system afterwards.

Whilst Propane may cost a little more, you can use it all year round.

If you currently have a Calor gas butane bottle, your regular gas supplier should exchange the butane bottle for a propane for just the cost of the refil.

You may also use bottles from other suppliers who might be cheaper.

 

[ScouseIan]

Many thanks. All clear now.

Off to discovery tomorrow. I still have 1 of my 7kg Butane containers that I 'bought' when I got the caravan in June. The other one still has gas in it but don't know how much. I will ask Discovery if they would just do an exchange with the completely full one for a full propane one. I won't hold my breath though as there are probably some 'health and safety issues'.

 

[WilliamLX]

We attended the Caravan Club Christmas Party Rally two weekends ago and the temperatures fell to -6oC overnight and was no higher than 1oC during the day. Many of the other caravans had trouble with their gas due to the butane bottles freezing. Strangely on van even had this problem with propane. For some reason despite using Butane our bottle never froze. I assume we were not drawing as much gas as these other vans. However as you have been told it is not hard to switch to butane (which we have now done), either a new regulator (about

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello William,

Technically the butane does not "freeze" it simple cannot vaporise, to maintain the pressure as there is insufficient heat in the bottle to boil the liquefied butane.

The caravan that was on propane, may have had difficulties because of a problem with the regulator.

All regulators have a diaphragm, ones side is exposed to the low pressure gas outlet, and the other side breathes air through a small hole in the casing. If the hole has been exposed to rain or another source of water, the action of the diaphragm can suck in the water, so the air void becomes partially filled with water.

If the water becomes frozen, this prevents the diaphragm from responding to changes in the gas demand and atmospheric pressure. Depending on the predisposition of the diaphragm when the water freezes, it may prevent gas flow or it might allow unregulated gas flow.

This problem is exacerbated, because as the high pressure gas passes into the regulators low pressure plenum it has to expand, and thus it will tend to cool the regulator body, so this could happen with propane gas.

I have actually come across this in a number of instances. Solution was to protect the regulator or reposition it so the hole was not exposed to water.

I have also found on three occasions that a manufacturers self adhesive inspection tab had been stuck over the hole. This also impaired the performance of the regulator giving variable gas pressures until the tab was removed.

 

[Steve L]

We are full timing in our van and currently use butane gas. So far it has not refused to work. I think that could be down to two things.

1/ We have the van facing the sun so the locker does get a little warm from that.

2/ The heating is on 500 watts 24/7 which does allow natural permiation of heat to the locker.

As for the water freezing we had that happen and your right it is in the pump pipe where it takes place. I tried household foam pipe insulation, but that failed as there was still a small gap in the insulation at the bend in the pipe.

However, my local charity shop came to our aid in the form of a size 20 quilted puffa jacket in an appropriate pale brown colour as well. I turned one sleeve inside out to conceal it in the jacket and fed the pump hose through the other one. Then I inserted the pump into the water hog and wrapped the jacket around the barrel. Even managed to zip it up. the sleeve provides full cover of the pipe right upto the side of the van. This bit of thinking outside the box cost a massive