Dodgy camping EHU leads on Bay

[Christhecaravanner84]

Admittedly this thread is more relevant to campers than caravanners but thought it may be of interest as many of us are ex tent campers.

After reading the article on Sky news about dodgy "plug in heaters" which claim to "warm a room within minutes" with only 500 watts, I took note of the statement from Ebay:

"We take the safety of our users very seriously. We had already removed three of the five listings that Which? flagged to us. One of the two remaining listings is selling a different product and the other one has already ended.
"We use block filter algorithms aimed at preventing unsafe products from being listed. These filters blocked 4.8 million listings in 2022 and are updated on a regular basis.
"On the rare occasion that an unsafe product does make it on to site, we swiftly remove it and provide product safety education to the sellers to prevent relisting."

So out of curiosity today I did a quick search on eBay. Unsurprisingly, there are still many potentially unsafe EHU leads on there, such as: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32379182...uid=6g5gXnYJTJS&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I have to admit to using a lead similar to the above when I first started tenting; just fitted a commando to an existing roll up extension lead I already had. I took the view that you are protected by the EHU bollard RCD, but later bought a proper lead after realising that you need as many layers of protection as possible with mains electricity in an outdoor environment. The C&CC provide a very comprehensive guide as to what is required: https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/advice/equipment/electricity-campers-caravanners/

I tried to report one but there just doesn't seem to be any relevant category to report it under. Not sure how worthwhile reporting is though, if it gets taken down then an another will appear just as quickly. The leads themselves should not be inherently dangerous if used in a dry environment, but they are not generally considered safe for their intended purpose. Ebay is a minefield and full of iffy stuff which gets under the radar. Dodgy goods like this get through, yet they ban vaping equipment!

 

[otherclive]

Admittedly this thread is more relevant to campers than caravanners but thought it may be of interest as many of us are ex tent campers.

After reading the article on Sky news about dodgy "plug in heaters" which claim to "warm a room within minutes" with only 500 watts, I took note of the statement from Ebay:

"We take the safety of our users very seriously. We had already removed three of the five listings that Which? flagged to us. One of the two remaining listings is selling a different product and the other one has already ended.
"We use block filter algorithms aimed at preventing unsafe products from being listed. These filters blocked 4.8 million listings in 2022 and are updated on a regular basis.
"On the rare occasion that an unsafe product does make it on to site, we swiftly remove it and provide product safety education to the sellers to prevent relisting."

So out of curiosity today I did a quick search on eBay. Unsurprisingly, there are still many potentially unsafe EHU leads on there, such as: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32379182...uid=6g5gXnYJTJS&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I have to admit to using a lead similar to the above when I first started tenting; just fitted a commando to an existing roll up extension lead I already had. I took the view that you are protected by the EHU bollard RCD, but later bought a proper lead after realising that you need as many layers of protection as possible with mains electricity in an outdoor environment. The C&CC provide a very comprehensive guide as to what is required: https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/advice/equipment/electricity-campers-caravanners/

I tried to report one but there just doesn't seem to be any relevant category to report it under. Not sure how worthwhile reporting is though, if it gets taken down then an another will appear just as quickly. The leads themselves should not be inherently dangerous if used in a dry environment, but they are not generally considered safe for their intended purpose. Ebay is a minefield and full of iffy stuff which gets under the radar. Dodgy goods like this get through, yet they ban vaping equipment!

I’d agree. Even on Amazon I bought two led wall lights for “ wall washing” effects. the old ones were three wire but I decided to install double insulated lights. What arrived had the double insulated logo plus CE. But when I opened one up it clearly did not meet the required configuration given it had exposed metal parts and inadequate insulation. I reported it to Amazon and got a full refund. I then purchased similar from the Melksham Lighting Superstore albeit at an increased price. But that outlet has been in business for many years and has a large online department. I’ve now got safe lights.

 

[Buckman]

Doesn't CE stand for Chinese Empire?

 

[Raywood]

I would not buy any cheap electrical goods from either Amazon or e bay. Our safety is far too important to take a chance. I do not use e bay at all, and if I bought anything electrical on e bay it would have to be from them and branded. It is hard on the honest sellers but I prefer to pay more if need be and stay safe.

 

[Johnb]

What tells you that item is unsafe?

I can't see anything that rings alarm bells for me!

Cable looks adequate? Plugs and sockets etc look fine!

Not at all sure why how you know that this is an unsafe product and ready to learn

 

[Buckman]

What tells you that item is unsafe?

I can't see anything that rings alarm bells for me!

Cable looks adequate? Plugs and sockets etc look fine!

Not at all sure why how you know that this is an unsafe product and ready to learn

Seems fairly obvious to me why it could be unsafe?

 

[otherclive]

For use within a tent I’d expect the sockets to have splash proof covers, a RCD and miniature circuit breaker also covered to protect from water, or condensation in the tent.

 

[ProfJohnL]

What tells you that item is unsafe?

I can't see anything that rings alarm bells for me!

Cable looks adequate? Plugs and sockets etc look fine!

Not at all sure why how you know that this is an unsafe product and ready to learn

If you cannot see the dangers of these cable sets then I have to conclude you do not have any electrical qualifications, or understand the risks.

If your response was supposed to be humorous, it certainly did not come across as such, When it comes to matters of safety and good practice, I personally do not think any humour should be tried as it might give a wrong steer to novice.

 

[RogerL]

If you cannot see the dangers of these cable sets then I have to conclude you do not have any electrical qualifications, or understand the risks.

If your response was supposed to be humorous, it certainly did not come across as such, When it comes to matters of safety and good practice, I personally do not think any humour should be tried as it might give a wrong steer to novice.

The vast majority of the general public, and therefore caravanners and campers, have no electrical qualifications and few would understand the risks in detail.

It simply doesn't help when the few that can tell the difference then tell the rest of us to avoid poor quality items, which we can't identify.

 

[Hutch]

For use within a tent I’d expect the sockets to have splash proof covers, a RCD and miniature circuit breaker also covered to protect from water, or condensation in the tent.

I fully agree, but It does state in the description that the sockets are for indoor use only. So no little fibs there.

 

[Hutch]

If you cannot see the dangers of these cable sets then I have to conclude you do not have any electrical qualifications, or understand the risks.

If your response was supposed to be humorous, it certainly did not come across as such, When it comes to matters of safety and good practice, I personally do not think any humour should be tried as it might give a wrong steer to novice.

I am fully with John B, the sellers state the sockets are for indoor use only, I would be happy to buy this unit, if on arrival if it was badly made then it would be returned with a bad review.

 

[otherclive]

I am fully with John B, the sellers state the sockets are for indoor use only, I would be happy to buy this unit, if on arrival if it was badly made then it would be returned with a bad review.

I fully agree, but It does state in the description that the sockets are for indoor use only. So no little fibs there.

But only an idiot would attempt to use one outside, and although the description does say indoor use only it describes its use in a tent. Therefore I would not use such an item in a tent where it could be subject to water, or condensation. I would use one of these.

Camping hook up
Phew the link worked. 😱

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Playing Devil’s advocate for a minute, I think it is unlikely you would like to come to any harm using one of these if you are extremely careful about where it is placed and make sure it doesn’t get wet / damp. The campsite RCD should protect you. However, given the elevated risk of things which can go wrong in an outside environment and the the fact any Tom Dick or Harry could buy them, the added level of protection on a proper purpose built lead is very necessary. I therefore think it’s wrong to be advertising something like this as a “camping lead”.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The vast majority of the general public, and therefore caravanners and campers, have no electrical qualifications and few would understand the risks in detail.

It simply doesn't help when the few that can tell the difference then tell the rest of us to avoid poor quality items, which we can't identify.

And that is one of the reasons why it needs those that do understand the issues to raise them.

Specifically about the listing, this device was described as "Caravan Extension Lead Electric Camping Hook Up Cable " and as being suitable " for inside a tent".

The cable could not be used as a caravan extension, as its plugs and sockets arrangements would not be compatible with a caravan.

The device has 4x13A sockets up to a 25M 1.5mmCSA cable terminated with a male CEEForm 16A plug. So it has no over current or RCD protection. If the cable was plugged into domestic type 16A socket ( with no local MCB or RCD) there would be no overcurrent protection except the breaker on the house's fuse board ( usually 32A) , and that would vastly exceed the 1.5MM CSA cable rating.

The sockets have no moisture protection, which is a serious concern in tents or any other outdoor activity

 

[Hutch]

And that is one of the reasons why it needs those that do understand the issues to raise them.

Specifically about the listing, this device was described as "Caravan Extension Lead Electric Camping Hook Up Cable " and as being suitable " for inside a tent".

The cable could not be used as a caravan extension, as its plugs and sockets arrangements would not be compatible with a caravan.

The device has 4x13A sockets up to a 25M 1.5mmCSA cable terminated with a male CEEForm 16A plug. So it has no over current or RCD protection. If the cable was plugged into domestic type 16A socket ( with no local MCB or RCD) there would be no overcurrent protection except the breaker on the house's fuse board ( usually 32A) , and that would vastly exceed the 1.5MM CSA cable rating.

The sockets have no moisture protection, which is a serious concern in tents or any other outdoor activity

Prof, you have to look further into the advertisement, it does show a Caravan hook up cable and points out in the advert that it does NOT have a 4 socket extension,on this cable. Like everything on these sites you have to be very careful and read through the whole advert.

 

[otherclive]

Prof, you have to look further into the advertisement, it does show a Caravan hook up cable and points out in the advert that it does NOT have a 4 socket extension,on this cable. Like everything on these sites you have to be very careful and read through the whole advert.

The advert is riven with inconsistencies in the descriptions of the various lengths of cable. Only the 25m is CE/ROHS (Uhm), but Im puzzled as to why you say it does not have a 4 socket extension on the 25m. what does a buyer think they will get? A length of 25m cable with a CEE connector on one end and nothing on the other. I think ChrisThe Caravaner is spot on: it is dodgy.

 

[Buckman]

Prof, you have to look further into the advertisement, it does show a Caravan hook up cable and points out in the advert that it does NOT have a 4 socket extension,on this cable. Like everything on these sites you have to be very careful and read through the whole advert.

That is the issue as few people probably carefully scrutinise the advert for the finer details. They look at the headline and it is what they want so they buy it.

 

[Hutch]

The advert is riven with inconsistencies in the descriptions of the various lengths of cable. Only the 25m is CE/ROHS (Uhm), but Im puzzled as to why you say it does not have a 4 socket extension on the 25m. what does a buyer think they will get? A length of 25m cable with a CEE connector on one end and nothing on the other. I think ChrisThe Caravaner is spot on: it is dodgy.

The advertisement is basically selling 3 different lengths of extension leads, and one 25 meter Caravan EHU cable in one advert, saving the seller the cost of another advert. Nothing dodgy as far as I can see.

 

[Raywood]

The vast majority of the general public, and therefore caravanners and campers, have no electrical qualifications and few would understand the risks in detail.

It simply doesn't help when the few that can tell the difference then tell the rest of us to avoid poor quality items, which we can't identify.

If you do not understand the difference then your only safe option is to buy from a a reputable retailer and avoid the likes of unregulated e bay sellers. Most things on e bay are probably perfectly safe but there are others that are not and if you cannot tell the difference then you are putting yourself and others at risk by buying there.

 

[Johnb]

Not wishing to encourage anyone to buy potentially dangerous electrical equipment I will happily concede that, for example, a 25m mains lead should be 2.5mm cable and not 1.5mm.

However, having said that it is common to see 1.5mm cable still wound around a drum/carrier serving motorhomes and/or caravans when abroad.

My assumption is that most sites do not provide a full 16amp supply and the 1.5mm cable will cope adequately with a lower draw. The wound around a drum situation seems to be often ignored. Again I presume those those happily using electricity for years without issues are fully aware of possible dangers should they hook up to 16A.

Of course it may be argued that the 1.5mm cable should never be sold simply because someone might not understand the constraints and do themselves or others damage. In this world life is not like that. Reminds me of pond where, as a child I would play for hours with friends. That pond now has fencing around it which, I suppose, is there to stop children playing as we did - the poor little beggars might fall in!

Perhaps many of us are fortunate to be here today when we were exposed to so many dangers as chidden!

I have a 1.5mm extension lead at home that comes on a drum. It has a 13amp plug at one end and two 13 sockets at the drum. I don't unwind it completely just in case it should overheat and it never has! But there again I don't expect it to carry a high current for a long time! Perhaps these extension cables should be withdrawn just in case misused and an accident occurs?

I have a 1.5mm extension lead (about 5m) that I use in the awning (In my case mostly a canopy with maybe one side installed). It is used for a fridge (if I hire one when in a hot climate to stand outside). I have also, on occasions, run an electrical slow cooker, lights and so on.

I also have a 2.5mm extension lead which I use at home, mostly for an electrical chain saw, but often take in the van "just in case"!

Problem is my caravan mains sockets are all fed by a 1.5mm cable! There are 6 mains sockets around the van all fed by 1.5mm cable. I've no intention of finding 6 electrical devises to see what happens - because I know what might happen. My assumption is that others have a similar understanding of basic electrical constraints.

I suppose I am saying that for me personally I would not buy a 1.5mm mains hook up cable - but countless thousands use just that.

I already use extension cables under a canopy style awning but don't leave them on the ground in case of a storm nor leave them hanging in an exposed position. They are perfectly safe. I would have no hesitation in buying the lead with a 4 socket socket that some are suggesting should never be sold.

Again arguably such extensions should be banned "just in case!" Really!

As for my limited understanding of electricity I've coped so far. As a young man I completely rewired a 3 story Edwardian house plus cellars installing everything including a new distribution board. The work was inspected before re-connection by Yorkshire Electricity and passed.

Like many on this Forum I do understand risk and I do not take silly chances. However, I hesitate to condemn something just in case it "MAY" be dangerous if used in a dangerous way. Many things in life are like that (my pond for example) but you can't ban all items just because someone may use them unsafely can you?

PS. Please don't think I'm belittling caution - I'm NOT. Nor am I suggesting there are no safer ways to carry electricity whilst camping. There are!

I can't agree though, that all E-Bay merchants who sell anything that "COULD" be dangerous if misused should be banned. Life isn't like that although countless "snowflakes" would argue that it should be.

 

[Anseo]

If you do not understand the difference then your only safe option is to buy from a a reputable retailer and avoid the likes of unregulated e bay sellers. Most things on e bay are probably perfectly safe but there are others that are not and if you cannot tell the difference then you are putting yourself and others at risk by buying there.

Ray, I understand the difference between 2.5mm and 1.5mm cable and the respective performance criteria.

My preference for pretty much anything is 2.5mm cross section, for any extension cable, however short or long it may be.

Take a look around sellers of camping \ caravan etc. extension cables and I think you will find that there are is a very large number of 1.5mm cables being offered for sale from many (most perhaps) of the major name retailers (I deliberately avoid naming them).
All of the retailers I have in mind are "reputable retailers". Unless one knows their onions, how would most buyers differentiate between what is offered on say Amazon or Ebay.

 

[Johnb]

Seems fairly obvious to me why it could be unsafe?

Ha Ha Ha!

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Deary me, I seem to have a nak for stirring up controversy on this forum. Lets keep things pleasant and not doubt each other's intelligence.

I think all my sockets in my caravan are wired with 1.5mm flex other than the extra sockets I have installed which are 2.5mm. However they are all on 10 amp breakers. I too often run a coolbox in the awning for my beers. I have a short extension lead which I shut in the window, I always make sure it's hanging and not laid on the ground. I think the leads advertised are not necessarily dangerous to a person who knows what they are doing and takes the appropriate precautions, however I worry that these leads are marketed to thee general populace who may be ignorant to the hazards of electricity in an outside space. Therefore, if your average Joe asked me what to buy for EHU for their tent, I would always direct them according to the recommendations of a club such as CC&C.

I installed some sockets in my gran's conservatory when I lived there . I won't go into the existing setup but it was not very safe. It was an old conservatory and a sometimes damp environment. Although standard sockets would probably have been OK, I installed new sockets in less vulnerable areas with in-build RCDs. To me, it was about assessing the risk and mitigating as much as possible. I think that is the correct approach when it comes to things like mains electricity in tents.

When it's someone like Jon or I who has a reasonable knowledge of electrics, the risks are lower. When it's a lead being sold mass market then they really do need to be as idiot proof as possible. I should also note that once when using my own DIY lead I felt a bit of a tingle whilst handling plugs. Could have just been static, but it made me think time to buy a proper lead!

 

[otherclive]

Three of the four leads are designated for use in a tent. In a full family size tent there could like be ab entry point, but for example in my three man there is not. So the lead would have to come in via the door by sliding it under the front groundsheet then rear wards into the inner tent. Like you I would use one with splash proof socket covers and a splash proof cover on the breaker and rcd as it’s invariably raining when you arrive on site 😂

My tent rarely gets condensation in the inner tent or front area. But there are many pop up or single layer tents that like some caravan awnings do suffer condensation from the roof, or they have lower rated HH and will get rain ingress at times.

 

[Beachball]

I would not buy any cheap electrical goods from either Amazon or e bay. Our safety is far too important to take a chance. I do not use e bay at all, and if I bought anything electrical on e bay it would have to be from them and branded. It is hard on the honest sellers but I prefer to pay more if need be and stay safe.

Well i have brought from Amazon or e bay Caravan 25m CE/ROHS hook up cable 100% copper approved cable 2.5mm
Orange
Connects to the standard splash proof site electricity supply socket 16A Round 3 pin then plugs into caravan socket
Conforms to all appropriate regulations
230V