Dog attack

[LMH]

That's a good article you posted.

Not sure I totally agree with this bit though:

'they see them as littermates or puppies that may need to be put in their place by a "***'.

Lisa

 

[marlot]

That's a good article you posted.

Not sure I totally agree with this bit though:

'they see them as littermates or puppies that may need to be put in their place by a "***'.

Lisa

I tend to agree. I've only seen that behaviour with collies!

 

[LMH]

Not many people realise that some collies love to round up small children. LOL!

Lisa

 

[cara89]

Icemaker. The camp sites we go to state in the rules dogs musnt pee on pitches and playparks. I see that as separate from `natures animals`. We rarely compain about anything so dont judge.

 

[Zafiral]

Caroline

Firstly, the comment you are talking about does belittle the very serious issue the OP is referring to.

If I read things correctly and you are complaining about dogs weeing on the pitch they are currently staying on then perhaps you should only visit 'no dogs' sites. Then everyone will be happy.

 

[Zafiral]

Lisa (LMH)

In my opinion if a dog attacks a child that goes near it in a communal place like a campsite, then that dog needs to be kept in a cage or at home when ever it is unattended, not left outside on a lead. If the child came into an awning then the child is overstepping the mark, but if the dog is outside (even near the awning / caravan) in a communal area then the dog owners are completely in the wrong and the RSPCA should ensure that they are never allowed to own a dog again.

 

[cara89]

I will go where -I- choose thank you very much

 

[Zafiral]

I will go where -I- choose thank you very much

Granted, but perhaps you should start your own thread, as this issue is rather different to the thread title and what happened to the OP's poor son.

 

[cara89]

I didnt be-little the topic at all if you look back. The one thats got you hot and bothered was a p.s. opinion that someone picked up on rather than just accept it.

Anyway, my apologies. I found the forum great at the beginning but i think this is a sign I have gained all I can from it. I am normally an easy-going person! Thankx to everyone I have had constructive, positive conversations with. All the best caravvaners and sorry about the experience of dog attack I really hope your wee boy is ok, John.

Bye

 

[LMH]

Zafiral

But none of us witnessed this incident, including the father.

If a full grown rottie 'attacked' a five year old, sorry but I doubt the child would simply have the alleged superficial wounds.

I might be wrong but you are implying that if the child had gone into the other persons awning, then the child is at fault but he's not at fault for approaching a large dog when he'd already been told to stay away.

In a dog's mind, being tied up outside the caravan or on the loose in the awning is no different and it would be impossible for it to differentiate. Rotties are a guarding breed first and foremost.

Maybe the dog shouldn't have been outside on its own. Maybe the children teased it. Maybe the dog jumped up and knocked the boy over and scratched the boy with its paws (10-12 stone of dog to three stone of child). Several other children 'rescued' the said boy yet the owners were unaware of all the commotion. And if this was a real 'attack' - with biting, barking, growling and pulling on its tether, those other children would have sustained injuries too. Someone, I can guarantee, would have got caught up in its tether. How come the owners didn't hear anything? Or howcome no other adults heard anything? We'll never know.

Lisa

 

[Zafiral]

I at all times was blaming the owner, not the dog. Sorry but campsites are public places and I stand by my comment that if any dog is nervous around small children then it should never ever be left alone in public.

 

[ShadySadie]

I would be concerned about the dog and the owners leaving it unattended.

But.

We have three 5 year olds in our group at the moment. There are cars and caravans and motorhomes moving on site and solo cars, motorcycles, bicycles, tractor, mowing machine and waste and other contrators vehicles.

For those reasons our five year olds would not be wandering around alone, so would not get near a dog.

Shoot me down if you like, a five year old should not be wandering a camp site alone.

 

[RogerP]

We were out with out 2 dogs over easter. Both are well behaved and play very well with our 3 1/2 year old. We'd been walking off lead with them for some time in the local forests and were nearing the playing / cafe area.

I put them back on their leads as there were alot a people / cyclists and it was getting rather busy , so safest all round.

Both dogs were in short leads with Gentle Leaders when a 7-8 year old girl wonders up with a foot long stick in her hand and waves it in front on my Lab. Lab likes to play with sticks so thought bingo , play time again , and grabbed the free end of the stick.

Little girl screams and runs off to mommy. Luckily mommy had seen what had happend and actually appologised to us for her daughters actions.

No harm done , not that either of my dogs would harm any one anyway.

However that innocent incident could have been totally blown out of all proportion.

 

[LMH]

We were out with out 2 dogs over easter. Both are well behaved and play very well with our 3 1/2 year old. We'd been walking off lead with them for some time in the local forests and were nearing the playing / cafe area.

I put them back on their leads as there were alot a people / cyclists and it was getting rather busy , so safest all round.

Both dogs were in short leads with Gentle Leaders when a 7-8 year old girl wonders up with a foot long stick in her hand and waves it in front on my Lab. Lab likes to play with sticks so thought bingo , play time again , and grabbed the free end of the stick.

Little girl screams and runs off to mommy. Luckily mommy had seen what had happend and actually appologised to us for her daughters actions.

No harm done , not that either of my dogs would harm any one anyway.

However that innocent incident could have been totally blown out of all proportion.

Exactly and I bet that happens a hell of a lot.

Lisa

 

[Steve L]

NOw while I do feel sympathetic towards the child that was injured and can fully understand the annoyance of the parents at the response they got to the situation, and I'm also very glad that no serious injury occured, there are a few simple steps that could of been taken to avoid the incident.

First fo all as a dog owner my self, who owns a chocolate labrador who loves kids, I NEVER allow my dog to be around anyone without me being present. I trust my dog 110% but he is 40Kgs of big softy that could inadvertantly knock over an adult let alone a child. He is so trusting and adorable too, so much that I'd be worried that someone might try to abduct him.

As a respossible parent I would apply a simlar level of care to any young child. After all, you don't know just who you are pitched next to or who the local hooligans are either.

While I agree thta everyone be they animal or human, need's their freedom to enjoy their holiday, it should not be at the expense of a bit of common sense.

I am very pleased to see that the site owner took matters seriously and I expect acted appropriately. Or did he?

May be, both party's had a part to play in inciting the dog to act the way he did?

Unless we were atually there at the time, we can only percieve what took place from the evidence displayed.

Regards.

Steve L.

 

[seth1]

As a dog owner and lover,we own a 7yr old staffordshire bull terrier,which we had from a pup.we also have two young children who,ve grown up with him.He is brillant,in 7 years he,s never made a noise towards a person,this is not to say i,d leave the children unsupervised with him though.But the problem is his dislike of other dogs,we understand this,make allowenses for him.We dont take him in the van which is sad but saves any possible upset.

My feelings are with the little boy,who in the right mind brings a rottw to a site ,ties it up to make it feel like its protecting something were there,s children.These type of dogs are natural guard dogs.As far as im aware their on the list anyway,were was the muzzle?They shouldnt be on site,and no matter what people say any dog thats in a public place should be approachable,other wise there is no place for them in society.

I really do hope the little man gets over this and it doesnt stick with him.

 

[LMH]

Seth

Rotties are not on the DDA 1991

Copied from 1991 Chaper 65

' 1) This section applies to-

(a) any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;

(b) any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and

(c) any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.

NB the following breeds have since been added:

Dogo Argentino

Fila Brasileiro

---------------

For your information, DEFRA has just issued a press release:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2009/090416.htm
----

If you look at the guidance notes for enforcers, to determine a 'pit bull or pit bull type' - well let's just say anyone who can't prove the parentage of their SBT might be in for a rough ride AGAIN.

Lisa

 

[seth1]

hello Lisa,why would anybody who owns a staffordshire be in for a "rough time"?would i be correct in saying its because some people dont know what a pitbull looks like and may mistake it for a staffordshire?but what a mistake that would be because apart from having 4 legs and fur their totally different looking.Their nature is completely different,regularly refered to as "nanny dogs" as agaist "devil dogs" that the rott carries.certain staffordshires may be a threat to other dogs but not children as refered to above.

 

[LMH]

Hi Seth

Thanks for the email.

I said anyone who owns a SBT who can't prove its parentage might be in for a rough ride because if you read their guidelines for 'officials' there are similarities between what they say a pit bull is and what a SBT is (in terms of comformation/muscle tone and temperament) and there's too much vagueness about points etc.

The authorities have massive problems identifying pit bulls or pit bull types. Those in the Liverpool Amnesty fiasco were siezed and most never returned.

If the SBT was added to the DDA, then every SBT which is unregistered is in danger of being siezed. You only have to look around you and see all these 17 inch plus dogs with blue or green eyes. They don't fit the SBT breed standard and could be classed as the dreaded pit bull or pit bull type.

I have some acquaintances in the USA with pit bulls and actually they are not all as perceived, yes they are powerful but if brought up correctly, and bred from reliable parents, then they are fine. There's a brilliant site dedicated to one particular dog and if I can find the link, I'll post it. It's fantastic. However, I don't agree to the trimming and cutting of ears though.

I'm so so sorry but I really do not like to hear the term 'nanny dog' when referring to a SBT. There is no nanny dog. Any dog can be a threat to a child and any child can be a threat to a dog.

Just my take.

Lisa xx

 

[seth1]

Lisa,i take everything you say onboard,and i agree with what you say,lets not forget a dog is still an animal,and some instinct is still there.regarding pitbulls,yes they are a nice animal,i to have a friend who owns one,whether this is right or wrong thats how the situation is.He is not 16,the dog goes to work with him most days,it is well behaved,and been brought up properly.But in no way shape or form does it look like my SBT or the temperiment the same.

SBT are an old english breed,that have been domesticated for years.

The facts still stand,dangerous dogs should not be on show,and not on sites.If the owners know their dog and its temperiment why take it?Children forget instructions to easy.

Any dog in a public place should be approachable or it shouldnt be there.

seth

 

[LMH]

Hi Seth

Thanks for the reply.

I have a SBT myself which I show and do obedience with. I also do a bit for SBT rescue. I have a SBT X too which I did obedience and agility with.

If you scrutinise the wording on the guidelines in the DEFRA document, you'll see what I mean in relation to how loose it is.

---------

I don't think we can actually ascertain whether or not the dog in question - the rottie referred to - is dangerous or not. We don't know the full circumstances. I've already voiced my opinion, whether I might be right or wrong.

-------------

If a dog is not person friendly, then the owners (I should hope) would know this and keep it under control. I don't think a dog should be penalised for being person aggressive but it must be kept under proper control at all times.

Lisa

 

[hgv dave]

hi all

im a dog owner but when i use my van the dog stays at home (well he stays with my daughter) i think i know my dog and im sure he would not attack anyone,but i used the word think! i dont know for sure what a dog is going to do or not do,sure they can be trained to do as the owner tells them but a dog has a mind of its own and if it feels threatened it will attack no matter how much trainng it gets.so can all of you dog owners out there like me be 100% sure that your dog is safe? i know that i cant.

so im going to say something now that will anoy some dog owners out there...........dogs should be banned for caravan sites where children are around.i would think that johns holiday was ruined because of a stupid dog owner,just think of what could have happened if those boys had not come along in time,it does not bare thinking about

hgv dave

 

[Chris_374413356]

Don't blame the dog, its the owner that should be put to sleep.

 

[LMH]

Hi

HGV Dave

If this was a full on attack Dave, how come the boys who 'rescued' the child didn't sustain any injuries?

Not an antagonistic post from me, just wanted your take on this.

Look forward to hearing from you.

I'm not sticking up for the rottie or its owner, but you know there's numerous cases where an over exuberant dog jumps up and knocks a child over and things get misread.

Lisa

 

[LMH]

And, for your information, so there's no misunderstanding, I wouldn't dream of leaving either of my dogs tied up out of my sight or in my sight, ie, outside the van.

Numerous reasons for this.

Lisa