Dog attack

[JackieandSteve_5080688]

A bit unfair saying the Rottweiler attacked him when he has 2 little scratches and a black eye. Sounds to me like the dog jumped up and caught the child with it's foot because if it had wanted to attack the little boy would have quite a few more wounds than that.

It's just another person giving the breed a bad name.

I wouldn't be too happy getting chucked off a campsite if a out of control child wouldn't leave my dogs alone.

 

[WilliamLX]

I am a dog owner (2 labradors), but also have a 6 year old son. I agree that chances are this was not a full blown dog attack (I base this both on the described injuries and the lack of interest the police showed). There are people who completely over react to anything concerning their child, and this indeed seems much more so now than in the past. However I will always question why someone keeps a dog such as a Rottweiler/German Shepard/Doberman/Bull Terrier etc as a pet? There are other breeds which are better looking, and off a more reliable temperament for use as a pet than the above breeds. Yes before fans of the above jump on me I know there are very soft Rottweilers and also aggressive Labradors, but I am talking about the general average for these breeds. Camp/Caravan sites are family places (mostly) and certain dog breeds just do not fit well with this.

Parents should keep an eye on kids, but complete control is both difficult and in some ways undesirable (threat from Peados etc is greatly over exaggerated).

To summarise I would say that there is a degree of fault from both sides of this story.

 

[JackieandSteve_5080688]

Why the heck shouldn't people keep them as pets? I have 2 dogs one is a Rottweiler and she is more obidient and well behaved than 99% of the dogs i pass in the street.

As for dogs that are better looking i completly beg to differ on that one they're one of the best looking breeds going if i'm out and about i have no end of people young and old even people with young children wanting to come and pet her as they think she is stunning my other cute little dog never gets a look in so it just proves my point.

 

[WilliamLX]

Personally I don't find the squashed nose/docked tail look on Rottweilers, Boxers etc at all attractive (nor is it a particularly beneficial 'mutation' for the poor animal either). As for why the heck you shouldn't keep one as a pet, well the breeds I mentioned have been developed to have enhanced aggression for use as guard/fighting dogs. No one knows when they get a puppy just how it will turn out. Many Rottweilers (and for that matter I am sure even American Pit Bull Terriers) will turn out as perfectly docile pets, but many will also not. Therefore when you get one of these breeds as a pet you are gambling to a much greater extent than you would be with a Labrador/Golden Retriever/Springer Spaniel etc, so why do it. Different if you need a guard dog, but a pet???

 

[LMH]

William

Get real.

I have a 3 yo SBT and a 10 yo SBT X. Both excel in obedience and the SBT X was fantastic at agility. I was considering to use my SBT as a PAT dog, they have quite a few SBT's but I don't have the time for that at the moment. Although I have read the requirments for a PAT dog and mine fits the bill.

You go out and have a good look around you. You take a note book and pen and sit somewhere busy for a day and note how many little dogs (and other breeds/crosses) you see having altercations. You'll be surprised. Or, if you want to do a job lot in a shorter period of time, visit a local dog show.

People think it's highly amusing to see a little dog snap and snarl at the postman, delivery driver etc but that's not acceptable.

For your information, your child is more likely to be injured playing on a trampoline:

http://www.lga.gov.uk/lga/core/page.do?pageId=904681
Lisa

 

[JackieandSteve_5080688]

My dog doesn't have a squashed up face you're obviously thinking of a different breed because she doesn't look anything like a boxer in the slightest.

How they turn out is how you bring them up just like any dog it's down to training and socalisation.

You obviously know nothing about the breeds you mention apart from what you might of read in the gutter press which is going to be bad news because good news doesn't sell papers and that's all they want to do.

 

[WilliamLX]

Yes small breeds are usually aggressive, but then I wouldn't buy one of these as a pet either. It is however worth noting that this type of snappy aggression is rather different from the type which can be shown by 'fighting breeds'.

 

[LMH]

'I mentioned have been developed to have enhanced aggression for use as guard/fighting dogs. No one knows when they get a puppy just how it will turn out'

Would you like to provide examples of the breeding lines for that comment.

Dog fighting was outlawed over 100 years ago and is illegal. Pit bulls are illegal in this country. There is no such breed as An American Stafford (its another name for a pit bull).

I do know there are pit bulls in this country and I do know dog fighting takes place away from the public eye. Disgusting. However, you're extremely unlikely to come across a dog which is used for fighting on a campsite.

When you get a puppy from a reputable breeder (I'm talking SBT's) any 'normal' person will research the parentage and be able to find info on the temperaments.

I agree you can't guarantee a dog's temperament - you ask my friend, she had half her face ripped off by a labrador she used to walk. It suddenly turned on her one day.

Lisa

 

[LMH]

William - clarify that point please.

Also, if a dog is used for fighting another dog, it doesn't necessarily make it human aggressive.

Lisa

 

[LMH]

Unless you go to places where dog fighting takes place, you're extremely unlikely to meet one on a campsite or anywhere else for that matter.

The owners arn't stupid enough to take them out in public. All the exercise is done on mills and remote areas (for gallops).

 

[LMH]

I mentioned have been developed to have enhanced aggression for use as guard/fighting dogs. No one knows when they get a puppy just how it will turn out.

PLEASE PROVIDE DETAILS OF THE BLOODLINES.

Thank you.

Lisa

 

[JackieandSteve_5080688]

William - clarify that point please.

Also, if a dog is used for fighting another dog, it doesn't necessarily make it human aggressive.

Lisa

Well said Lisa that is one thing that makes me so mad when people say "It could of been a child" when a dog goes for another one.

 

[WilliamLX]

I am not going to be drawn any further into this argument. You know rightly what certain breeds were selectively bred for (blood lines indeed), and how this can influence their nature regardless of how well trained or socialised they are. You take a labrador puppy and a Rottweiler puppy, raise and train them together and you know full well which is more likely to show aggression to humans when an adult. That is all I am going to say on the matter.

 

[JackieandSteve_5080688]

Who's arguing William it's a debate and Lisa has asked you to back up what you're claiming which you obviously can't do so want to now take the easy way out.

Your Rottweiler/Labrador theory is absolute rubbish and there are no stastistics anywhere to prove that is true.

 

[LMH]

I think William is under the impression that dog fighting is rife in this country and everyone should take great care when they leave the house.

As he keeps referring to fighting dogs - I'll give William some facts. You can't just take two dogs, put them in the pit and expect them to each cross the scratch line and kill each other. Doesn't happen like that.

These dogs are bred from proven dogs. They are specifically trained for this purpose, they are super fit and they exchange for vast sums of money. You're more likely to see the man in the moon than one of these 'highly prized animals'.

A dog used for fighting will not automatically be human aggressive.

Finally, your comparison between a labrador and Rottie is tosh. I'll work on the assumption that you mean when the dogs reach the age of three which by then in most breeds, we'd have a good idea of temperament.

Although it's best to buy a dog from sound parents, this doesn't always guarantee things. Environment has a huge part to play and a high majority of dog bites are actually carried out by the family pet on a family member.

As Jackie and Steve say, there's no stats to prove your theory is correct.

Lisa

 

[whitetop]

David R

The owner probably told the child to stay away because she was probably sick to the back teeth of the child hassling her dog. Don't automatically make assumptions by trying to imply the dog had issues per se, you should know that if you are in fact a full time serving officer. Only working on facts and evidence and all that........

---------------

How many people have you charged for failing to keep their dog under control?

Under what circumstances?

Did the CPS take the case/s further and if so, what was the outcome?

When you say in similar circumstances, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean there were no adult or credible witnesses to alleged incidents?

Oh, and are we talking about Northern Ireland or England?

What experience do you have in alleged canine incidents?

I await with baited breath.

What rank are you and with what Force?

----

HGV Dave, thanks for your reply.

Lisa

"The owner probably told the child to stay away because she was probably sick to the back teeth of the child hassling her dog"....or perhaps she knew there was risk......

Several......

Dog not under control....putting a dog on a lead on a hook is NOT under control when there is no-one supervising the dog...

Yes....every single case......varied from just a fine to dog destroyed in extreme, repeat case....

Witnesses can be any age.......kids are more cridible in my opinion than adults as they speak the truth without the drama..

Scotland.......

Numerous.....after 25 years...

Rank / Force.........relevance please

 

[whitetop]

Lisa..........see comment

I await your next attack...........

 

[LMH]

It's no attack David, I have no problem with the police, I deal with them on a weekly basis.

However, to answer the question - the relevance is anyone can come into cyber space and purport to be a police officer..........

I would have expected a police officer to be able to spell 'credible' correctly though. Tut, tut.

What is the youngest age in which a child can be called into court to give evidence in Scotland?

When you say 'several' - could you give me a rough estimate? Are we talking single figures or above?

'Dog not under control....putting a dog on a lead on a hook is NOT under control when there is no-one supervising the dog' according to the original poster, the owners were inside their caravan.

If this was a Caravan Club site, it states that dogs must be chained out on a length of approximately one metre. (It could be shorter than that, I haven't looked as it doesn't apply to me).

So, are you saying the Caravan Club could be in potential trouble (compensation claims etc) should an incident occur between a dog and a human because it doesn't state that the owners should be actually sitting/standing - supervising - the dog when it's tied out? - Just wanted your take on that, given your experience.

Finally, as you are an officer of 25 years, although in Scotland, could you point me in the direction of your guidance on dogs not under control (as in the situation you quote). I do like to read up on legislation etc and would be very interested.

If you don't want to answer on here, that's fine, I'll ask the mods to pass my email address onto you and should you prefer, you can reply directly to me.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Lisa

 

[Damian]

This topic is starting to head the right way for deleting.

It has started to get personal, as it usually does.

It has run its course and is going off at all kinds of tangents.

Time to let it rest.

btw NO email addresses will be passed on.

 

[LMH]

Damian, what on earth do you mean?

There's nothing personal going on at all.

I've asked the moderating team to pass my email address on in a perfectly polite way, what on earth is wrong with that?

Lisa

 

[Guest]

Why all the dog breeding and fighting comment?

This is about being responsible for dogs and children.

Campsites are not safe havens to let five year old wander on and nor should tethered dogs be left unattended.

It matters not what breed your dog is or what its manners are like and nor should it matter what age your child is or what it understands or how it behaves. With both you as the gaurdian are responsible for keeping both safe and under order on camping sites at all times.

 

[Damian]

the relevance is anyone can come into cyber space and purport to be a police officer..........

I would have expected a police officer to be able to spell 'credible' correctly though. Tut, tut.

I think the above quotes are indicative of the way this topic is going, and al it wil do is make deleting the whole thing quicker.

Since John posted that his son was fine now, 22 more postings have been made , now going on to fighting dogs etc etc which are all totally off topic.

Yes your request was ploite, as was my reply.

 

[LMH]

Damian,

We have had trolls on here before, you know that.

If you could just read this before you delete the thread, I'd appreciate it.

If you scrutinise William's posts, you'll note that he quoted 'dog fighting breeds' several times. I simply replied because there is a mass hysteria around certain breeds and I felt clarification was needed. Apparently, I was wrong.

However, I'd still like clarification on my question regarding the Caravan Club from a police officer's perspective. But in hindsight, I'll save my question till Friday when we have a meeting, although the answer might be different bearing in mind, I'm in England and my question was aimed at a Scottish police officer.

I'm glad John's son is ok.

Lisa

 

[WilliamLX]

Post removed.

See earlier comment,this topic is done to death.

It is now CLOSED

Damian (Moderator)

 

[LMH]

Hi William

Thanks for your post.

I'm not a Rottie owner, I've never had one and would never get one. The reson being they are just too large, and that's the only reason. My brother has one though.

I do like Afghan's and have often thought about getting one of those as I find their willfullness endearing and would be a great challenge at times, but they too are rather too tall for my circumstances and I couldn't cope with all that fur. LOL!

My breed is the Stafford. To answer your question, since being a small child, I always wanted a SBT but my parents wouldn't allow me to have one. We had a spaniel but that used to bite my brother and I on occasion. In those days, we knew little of canine psychology and kind training methods. We muddled on and had the dog for 16 years.

I like the look of them per se (SBT). I like their conformation, their agility, their faithfullness, their reliable temperament, their nice short coat and their height (14-16 ins to the withers). My own dogs are very sociable, love having visitors to the house. They are (well mine are) quite robust. I can walk one of mine on a lunge line just by my fingertip (meaning it doesn't pull). Like a lot of dogs, they are very very easy to train (I only do reward based training) and thrive on praise and attention from people.

I hope that's given you a bit more insight.

Kind regards

Lisa