Driver arrested re crash involving caravan

[MikeP]

A motorist has been arrested after the caravan he was towing was involved in a serious collision in Surrey. A man and a woman riding a black Kawasaki motorcycle were seriously hurt after colliding with the rear of the caravan on the A24 on Friday afternoon.

Police said a blue Vauxhall Cavalier towing the caravan had tried to turn right across the carriageway towards a petrol station at Beare Green. The turn could not be completed and the van was left protruding across a lane.

Both people on the motorbike, who are in their 30s, sustained serious injuries, although police said they were not thought to be life-threatening. The man was taken by air ambulance to The Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel, while the woman was taken to East Surrey Hospital in Redhill.

The driver of the car, a man in his 50s from Leatherhead, was arrested for dangerous driving and is currently being held in custody.

Source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/surrey/6898420.stm

 

[Bri-C]

Hmmm.. Not sure which side I should come down on this one.. Having riden motorcycles from time to time over the last three decades but also tow a caravan ( not with the bike ). I have to support the polce on this one and say that as a driver you should be fully aware at all times of the position of EVERY part of your vehicle be it either 8 foot long and on two wheels or 38 foot long with a bendy bit in the middle. If you can not complete the manouvre then you should not start it !! Or was no one else every taught this.

 

[Steve L]

Like you Brian I have riden bikes and now I tow a 20ft van behind our Laguna which overall equates to over 39ft of vehicle. I am always aware of just how long the oufit is and act accordingly.

However the amount of times I see people crawl off the highway in their cars into side roads or forecourts beggers belief. They seem to want to hold up traffic just for the "look at me" factor as I call it. I realy wish people would look ahead and do things in a posative manner. That doesn't mean screech to a halt having entered a garage at 40mph, but make a destinctive move by turning in and getting off the highway as swiftly as circumstances allow.

Now as for modern motor cyclist's, there is an element of the "boys toys" brigade who watch the telly and then just have to emulate their race heros on the roads. I see regularly on the A44 just out of Worcester heading to Wales, a group of bikers and their mates using vidieo cameras to capture the high speed foot rest tapping attempts of their biker mates as they try to go as fast as possible round corners that are both blind and of uneven camber.

As for what the police do next with matey getting into his petrol station, I hope they do throw the book at him.

But on the otherhand, everyone out on the roads today need to sharpen up their thinking and driving styles, as there is far too much "sod you I'm alright jack" attitude on the roads.

What ever happened to the "Knights of the road" and the salute from the AA man? Or even just plane old good manners?

Steve L.

 

[Bri-C]

Last thing I heard Good manners was having a gap year or two, with his mates general decency, common sence and a few others from the old shool.

Wouldn't be supprised if they've not been locked up somewhere for drunk an disorderly or the like.

Hopefully we will see thier return on mass in the near future.

 

[GeorgeB]

Mike,

As both and motorcyclist and a caravaner its difficult to comment with being in possesion of the full facts, but....

Did the caravaner indicate? was he stationary at the point of impact?

However I was always told that if I ran into the back of something it was my fault for driving either too close to the vehicle in front or driving too fast.

If the motorcyclist drove into a stationary object the he's at fault for not driving with due care and attention!

The only thing I can think of that a driver is arrested after an accident in the circumstances as described is for being under the influence!

 

[BeemerMal]

GeorgeB...I think you will find the car/caravan had started to make a right turn across the opposite carrigeway and he was unable to clear the opposite lane fully with his entire vehicle due to an obstruction. This meant he had to stop with part of his vehicle obstructing the opposite carrigeway.

The motorcyclist was (if I read it correctly) travelling in the opposite direction to the car/caravan and he hit the stationery caravan broadside!

If this is what did happen then the car driver is at fault by not ensuring, before he started the maneauver, that both car and caravan would clear the road completely.

The motorcyclist may have been going too fast to avoid a collision, but unless this is proven the fault will rest with the car driver.

 

[MikeP]

Yes, it's difficult to comment without knowing more facts.

I'm not sure in which direction the motorbike was travelling. The fuel station is on the east side of the A24, so the car/caravan was heading north. Some of the central reservation gaps are big enough only for a car, so a car/caravan (or bus/lorry) turning right would indeed still be occupying the outside lane of the northbound if the turn could not be completed in one go.

If the motorbike was travelling south, then yes - it is possible that the car/caravan was unable to pull right into the fuel station.

Whatever the explanation, it is a little odd that the car driver was arrested - I was always taught to drive within the limit of the visible carriageway. If anything appears in the local press I will post again.

 

[Val & Frank]

Hi all,

The emotive bit here seems to be "the car driver was arrested" which really does not mean anything. I saw a doctor was arrested the other day, and was released without charge a few days later !!!!.

It would appear fault was on both sides, one for blocking the road, the other for running into a stationary object. Difficult one without the facts, but I bet the boys in blue will come up with a charge that makes a fortune for some clever lawyers.

And to keep it all PC our sympathy goes out to the injured.

Val & Frank

 

[colin(bridgend)]

I would say that the motor cyclist is at fault as when I was taught to drive I was told to leave sufficient room between myself and the vehicle in front for safety. If the motor cyclist was driving in this manner and not speeding then he would have forseen the incident and taken the necessary action to avoid the accident. If the car driver is sucessfully prosecuted then surely this could open up a new ball game for the police and legal beavers eg roundabouts, cross roads, traffic lights, etc. I have often been in a right turn manouver at a set of lights but unable to proced because of oncoming traffic. Therefore I am part way across the junction but my caravan is still in the offside lane of the road I was initially driving on. Does this mean that If someone was to drive into my caravan I am to blame? I think the police have a very weak case and probably the DPP will throw it out - common sense must prevail.

 

[Happy-Lappy]

I have been reading this debate with interest, one question I would like to ask is this...is there any chance that after the car/caravan made his manouver, realising he could not carry the sweep out in one attempt, then reversed BACK into the line of traffic. This would be the car drivers fault for negligence as he encroached back into the line of traffic without looking and the motorcyclist would not have seen the reversing lights, due to the angle of the caravan in respect to the highway,

best regards, Martin

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Could it have been against a no right/left/U-turn sign one wonders

 

[ProfJohnL]

There was some comment made several months ago that suggested that the police/law are beggining to take teh view that whenever a cycle is in collision with car, the driver of the car would be held responsible. This was never confirmed, but I do wonder is this is what has happened here.

Personally I disagree with the suggestion, as I have seen many children on cycles weaving on and off the pavement and road, and some adult cyclists who weave in and out of traffic. equally I do see some perfectly good cyclists.

Before anyone points out that the thread is about Motor Cyclists, I do recognise this, but many of the points apply equally to both traffic groups.

As we do not know the full circumstances of the event, it is inappropriate to try and apportion blame. But what is clear, is that it is incumbant on all road users to assess the situation before making a manouvre, and it is importamnt for all road users to be aware of what others in the vicinity are doing, and if necessary to reduce speed or be prepared to accomodate the hazard.

 

[MikeP]

Could it have been against a no right/left/U-turn sign one wonders

No, you're allowed to turn right there.