Driving licence question

[Surfer]

My wife has a driving licence that states she has been allowed to drive B category from 05/02/1981 about 20 years before she was issued with a UK driving licence. Prfeviously she had a SA driving licence. For insurance purposes how long has she held a UK driving licence?
She also holds a B+E category. If the towing vehicle weighs 2500kg and the caravan 1600kg, can she legally tow this combination? Thanks.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer,
I'm not sure about the length of time you wife has held a UK licence, though I suspect it may from the date the full licence was issued. I suggest you check with the DVLA.

I cannot fully deduce the situation with your wifes licence catagories as your post is a little ambiguous. It is a matter of fact that you are only allowed to drive the vehicles as defined in the categories of your licence:

If the category B only include B, then the combined MAM must not exceed 3500Kg, and the MAM of trailer must not exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle.

If you have BE or B+E licence then the the outfit you propose is ok.
If you beleive your licence does not refelect the catagories you are entitled to drive then you must seek advice from teh DVLA
Notr that on reaching aged 70, Catagorey BE or B+E is automaticaly commuted to B, and you have to do the 'E' extention test to regain your prior category.

 

[Surfer]

Thanks. The photocard licence states she has been allowed to drive B category from 05/02/1981in the UK as if the licence was issued from that date. The BE has "From" <01/02/1996 so I assumed she has what is known as "grandfather rights" Her SA licence was held for about 20 years. I am pleased to read that she can tow the combined weight legally. No more excsues!

We cannot find anything on either the paper or photo card licence stating that it was issued on a specific date in 2002 as she submitted her SA driving licence and received back the UK driving licence. Unfortunatley for me, in 1996 you had to undergo a full test if you held a SA driving licence.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm sorry Surfer,
If she has BE or B+E enacted on her licence then she is entitled to drive an outfit conforming to the BE regualtions. The issue date is immaterial as long as the category remains in force.

I would agree that grandfather rights seem to have been enacetd here.

As for how long she has had a UK driving licence, that can only relate to the date her first UK licence was issued. Prior to that she would not have had a UK licence.

Each country issues its own driving licences, and has limits and categories as they see fit. There are usually international agreements between most countries that cross reference the categories, and allow a foreign driver to drive here on their native licence for a limited period of time.

In the EU the categories have or are being harmonised so a cat B in the UK is the same as a cat Be elsewhere in Europe.

It is possible that the cross references were regraded between the UK and SA and the dates you mention correspond with those changes.

 

[Tony_374371542]

Hello Prof.
I reached 70 recently and had to renew my licence. My original licence covered the normal car/light lorry up to 7500Kg and also the B+E catagories. To continue with the B+E catagories to allow me to drive my caravan/car outfit and a mini-bus on a voluntary basis, I had to take a medical to prove my fitness. Without the medical, my license would have reverted to the up to 3500Kg maximum and without the mini-bus extension.

 

[TheotherDave]

Yet another misleading post, the only definitive way to get an answer to licence queries is from the DVLA.
If you look on their web site you’ll see that that medical is not required to keep a B + E category on your licence over the age of 70, but it is required for a mini-bus.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you for spotting a mistake. I'm sorry for the error about what happens at aged 70. We are all fallable at times - which is why I include my note at the bottom of each post. Readers should alway check details with authoriative sources.

 

[602]

I'm sorry for the error about what happens at aged 70. We are all fallable at times

Hi Prof John
That is known as a Senior Moment. ;-)
You lose your C & D entitlement at age 70, unless you pass a medical, at your own expense. Some people have a regular medical at DVLA's expense, and that may entitle you to drive C and D without being hit in the wallet.
I can't be bothered to go digging through my papers right now, but I suspect a B licence can drive a minibus up to 8 seats. There was a recent case of a minibus driver being done for speeding (exceeding 50mph). DVLA records said it had 16 seats, so he had to go to court to prove it only had 8 seats.
There is something at the back of my mind that says a Wrinkly can drive 3500kg+ provide he has L-plates and is accompanied by his younger wife. Hell, man, I taught her to drive 45 years ago .......
602

 

[602]

Hi,

The lady next door passed a UK driving test, then emigrated to South Africa. On her divorce, 25 years later, she returned to UK, and found that her UK entitlement had expired after 10 years (this was pre-till-70 licencing).
So after 12 months she got herself a IDP, and continued driving. I think she was wrong.

A VISTOR can drive in UK for 12 months before needing to take a test. As she had returned to UK to live permanently, she was not a visitor. However, as she had previously held a UK licence, her insurance was valid. But maybe her "own damage" cover was questionable.

602

 

[Surfer]

Correct. The IDP would have been invalid and also her insurance. I think it was after 1998 she could have swapped her SA licence for a british one.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
whats a C,D and B+E entitlement for??? mine only has 3 groups A,D,& E.
course I've had it while now errr 1965 I think !!!

 

[Surfer]

hi all,
whats a C,D and B+E entitlement for??? mine only has 3 groups A,D,& E.
course I've had it while now errr 1965 I think !!!

If you don't have a 4 x 4 or a twin axle, I would not worry too much about it as you can still tow up to the gross weight of 3500kg.

 

[Lutz]

hi all,
whats a C,D and B+E entitlement for??? mine only has 3 groups A,D,& E.
course I've had it while now errr 1965 I think !!!

The categories B,C,D+E referred to in this thread are the new ones that came into effect when driving licence requirements were harmonised throughout the EU. In the UK this was done in 1997. A licence issued in 1965 was therefore well before this time and it retains its old validity, i.e. an old pre-1997 category A licence allows you to drive an outfit with a gross train weight of up to 8.25 tonnes. This is, of course, well above anything that one would encounter with a car towing a caravan.

 

[Gafferbill]

…….if I was colin-yorkshire I would bite the bullet and pay for a new photocard license.

The time must be rapidly approaching (if it is not here already) when people in authority (officers in patrol cars) will be thoroughly confused by the old style license and categories.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

…….if I was colin-yorkshire I would bite the bullet and pay for a new photocard license.

The time must be rapidly approaching (if it is not here already) when people in authority (officers in patrol cars) will be thoroughly confused by the old style license and categories.

hi all,
my comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek

and not taken too literally of course Lutz is correct because the licence was issued BEFORE any of the new groups it automatically supercede them or to put it another way cannot be of a level lower than any of the groups presently in force thats why I have still got it?? photo licences are not compulsory if you have a paper licence and besides why pay for a photo one when the one I have had for 47 years and cost £2 is still valid for the next 7 years.
colin

 

[602]

The time must be rapidly approaching (if it is not here already) when people in authority (officers in patrol cars) will be thoroughly confused by the old style license and categories.

Hi,
Way back in the 1970s, two policemen in a car stopped my wife, asked to see her driving licence. They made much of her licence saying A MOTOR CAR AND A MOTOR TRICYCLE, "Never seen one like that before!" etc.
She was too embaressed to tell them that she had limited movement in one arm, so did not have provisional entitlement for any other groups, nor the normal moped entitlement. Strangely, DVLC removed the restrictions, and she now has a B+E licence .... for a few more months.
602

 

[Surfer]

…….if I was colin-yorkshire I would bite the bullet and pay for a new photocard license.

The time must be rapidly approaching (if it is not here already) when people in authority (officers in patrol cars) will be thoroughly confused by the old style license and categories.

IMHO the stupid part is that the photocard licence is NOT proof of a driving licence or full identification unless the paper copy is produced! How weird is that?

 

[JonnyG]

Dont forget you have to renew the new photo license ever 10 years and pay for the privilege

 

[Surfer]

Dont forget you have to renew the new photo license ever 10 years and pay for the privilege

You are normally sent a reminder by the DVLA so no excuse about forgetting.

 

[Steve L]

Another thing you have to make sure of when renewing your photo card license is, to ensure that the driving catagories are tranferred correctly. It isn't unknown for new licenses to be issued in post 1997 format thus deleting "grand parent rights" to people who passed their test before 97.
I photo copied my licenses before sending them in so that (A) I had a copy for refference, and (B) I could show a form of driving entitlement should the wooden tops pull me for a "vehicle check" in the mean time.
The medical for mini bus driving is to ensure you're compus mentus and can cope with 14 screaming banchies (school kids) riding in the back

.

The DVLA aren't infalable either, they can and do make mistakes. I know of a chap who got a disability car supplied evrey 3 years for over twenty years before the DVLA realised that he'd never passed a car test when in the army, but held a truck license. It wasn't until he volunteered for driving a mini bus for a local charity that the irregularity showed up in thier security checks.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Another thing you have to make sure of when renewing your photo card license is, to ensure that the driving catagories are tranferred correctly. It isn't unknown for new licenses to be issued in post 1997 format thus deleting "grand parent rights" to people who passed their test before 97.
I photo copied my licenses before sending them in so that (A) I had a copy for refference, and (B) I could show a form of driving entitlement should the wooden tops pull me for a "vehicle check" in the mean time.
The medical for mini bus driving is to ensure you're compus mentus and can cope with 14 screaming banchies (school kids) riding in the back

.

The DVLA aren't infalable either, they can and do make mistakes. I know of a chap who got a disability car supplied evrey 3 years for over twenty years before the DVLA realised that he'd never passed a car test when in the army, but held a truck license. It wasn't until he volunteered for driving a mini bus for a local charity that the irregularity showed up in thier security checks.

It is not possible to obtain an LGV (Truck licence) licence without submitting your ordinary car driving licence first, so if you have a truck licence you must first have a car licence, and he could also nominate up to two other persons as drivers for his disability vehicle without acutely holding a licence himself, but I'm not sure where the DVLA would get involved with the issuing of a mobility vehicle as that is taken care of by the HSS under mobility

 

[JonnyG]

Dont forget you have to renew the new photo license ever 10 years and pay for the privilege

You are normally sent a reminder by the DVLA so no excuse about forgetting.

Renewed mine in 09, but still recall threads on this very site a year earlier about all the confusion of the then ten year old photo license renewal cycle coming into effect..and indeed the heated debate around said issue [I clearly was not involved in that debate]
At the time the DVLA actually came out and said they would be sending out reminders[for now]so people should not be too concerned at that time.
"For now" is not forever,and so as I have no idea how long "for now" is,or if indeed the DVLA are still sending out reminders, its best to be on your guard check your photo license for its renewal date,and do not rely on the DVLA to keep sending out reminders.

 

[Steve L]

Unfortunately and admittedly some time ago, military personnel in the uk were taught to drive using 4 ton trucks or larger vehicles. Then when demobbed and returned to civi street, they were given car licenses without actually passing a car test. So not until someone has to go through a records check, do some of the skeleton's come out of the closit.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Unfortunately and admittedly some time ago, military personnel in the uk were taught to drive using 4 ton trucks or larger vehicles. Then when demobbed and returned to civi street, they were given car licenses without actually passing a car test. So not until someone has to go through a records check, do some of the skeleton's come out of the closit.

Complete tosh, "they were given car licenses without actually passing a car test" Not sure where your source of information comes from, it has never been possible to hold a LGV licence that excludes category B entitlement, whether obtained via the forces or otherwise. I will try to "Keep It Simple Stupid" (process technician terminology) so that any idiot could understand.
Many years ago no separate licence was required to drive a lorry, then back in the late 60s the HGV Licence was introduced, with class entitlements 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 in all cases an ordinary car licence was required to be submitted in order to obtain your provisional HGV Licence, that was in the form of a black book, and of course before this was issued you had to undergo a medical.
I believe that now days things have changed, and it is possible to obtain both your car licence and LGV by passing just the one test in a LGV, but again having done so it would not be possible for them to exclude cat B from your licence, they go hand in hand, you cant have one without the other.

 

[602]

Hi,

My understanding was that, during the war, servicemen could get a driving licence without passing a proper driving test, and after the war this entitled them to a civilian driving licence.

When DVLC was born, your old red-book licence was accepted as proof of your entitlement to drive. There was no search made to find out if you had ever passed a driving test. I am uncertain whether, even then, the Driving Test Centres informed DVLC of test passes. I think DVLC relied on the Test Pass certificate presented by the person applying for a full licence. There was definitely no record kept of test failures.

I spent a year (1959) as permanent staff at RAF Weeton, the RAF driving school (at 19, I had the authority to decide whether any of 300 training vehicle should go into the workshop for repair, or to fix them myself. Mornings were very busy ). All the RAF examiners were also Ministry approved examiners, so passing the RAF test qualified you for a civilian licence. For many drivers, their first experience was on a Bedford SL 3.5 ton truck. Most drivers passed first time. Then they had to pass again, in a Land Rover. Most did pass. Then they had to pass again in a Standard Vanguard .... and an amazing number failed. Getting cocky?

One of the lads on my entry to Recruit Training (Boot Camp) was yanked out of the billet on the first day, given 14 fays Embarkation leave, and sent out to Malaya. He had a full motorcycle licence, and they were short of despatch riders. I'm not sure why they were short of despatch riders .... this was 1958. ???? (Another bloke got an immediate medical discharge .... rumour was that he had "one too many").

A mate got called up for National Service, trained as a driver. His first job was to deliver a tank on trailer, towed by a Mighty Antar. He protested that his licence didn't cover him. His sergeant said it did. He put the gun barrel through an upstairs window ..... and the police escort took the blame.

I believe the army now use civilian driving schools.

602