ECU Re-map

[xtrailman]

Just to add to the discussion.

Don't assume that the latest xtrail 2l diesel engines are the same lump, and that the only difference is a remap, the 148bhp engine is completely different to the 171bhp.

In days of old, if i wanted extra power, i did on two occasions replace the engine.

Today that's far too complicated for me, its much easier to buy the more powerful version to start with.

No insurance problems, no problems selling on, and everything beefed up to cope with the extra power.

 

[Guest]

Icemaker. the 5% tolerance you talk about for DMFs cannot be true, as the 150bhp version carries the same clutch and DMF as your 130 version

Which far exceeds a 5% difference.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The car industry is particularly good at trying to find ways to keep their costs down.

Ford were particularly aggressive with suppliers, and even a fraction of a penny saving on many components was vigorously pursued.- some say too far.

But what it meant was that if a part for a model was over specified (e.g. a clutch systems) and they could save even a few pence by fitting one that was closer to the duty demands of the engine, they would.

I am sure that other manufactures will also have exercised similar prudence.

So it is wrong to assume that say a 2L model will have the same durability of components fitted to a 2.2L model as standard, unless the manufacture confirms it.

 

[Lutz]

I don't quite understand your last post, John. Are you suggesting that a 2 litre model may have a design working life of, say, 400,000 miles, but the same car manufacturer would set a 500,000 mile bogey for the equivalent 2.2 litre?

 

[Jaydug]

Quote [the 150bhp version carries the same clutch and DMF as your 130 version] Quote

You can't be sure of that. The DMFs may look the same, but one could be fitted with stronger damper springs.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Lutz,

No that is not what I meant, perhaps I used the wrong word, Durability as you correctly assert relates to the life expectancy of a product,

My minds has gone blank for the best word, but to describe, but to use you benchmark, both models may have a working life expectancy of 500.000, but to archive it bearing in mind that one model may have 110kW engine and the other may have 130kW engine, some components for the 130kw unit will need to be slightly tougher than the smaller unit to cope with marginally higher duty.

 

[Morganic]

Many thanks for all your thoughts/opinions on the subject raised. You might be interested in the following link from VW Racing

http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/Tuning General Pages/FAQ.html
It certainly echoes what some of you have been saying about vehicle tolerances/fuels etc

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Morganic,

I read your suggested link with interest.

Now consider it - carefully.

Never loose hold of the fact that this is ADVERTISING. - and clever advertising at that.

What it says about engines is true; variations in fuel quality and altitude will affect engine performance. And it would be a problem for a car with a conventional mechanical carburetion and ignition system that was set up to run with UK fuel and altitudes, take it to a high altitude and use poor fuel, and the performance would be seriously affected.

My brother in-law lives in Canada, where he fits central heating furnaces. He has to specify to the manufacture/supplier the altitude of the installation, so the correct burner set can be fitted so it provides the specified performance.

But modern cars are not like that. They have highly complex engine control units (ECU's) that monitor things like mass air flow, oxygen and knock, throttle and RPM and with these inputs the ECU can make the necessary adjustments to the engines settings to compensate for the factors mentioned. It will deliver more poor quality fuel to compensate for the lower of combustion energy the fuel has. So loss of performance due to these factors should be minimal.

Unless the manufacture is deliberately reducing the efficiency of an engine (what would the benefit of that be to a manufacturer?) the only way to get more power out is to put more fuel in.

The performance curves of the engine are set by the manufacture. A remap attempts to redraw the curves, and regardless of what the remap supplier tries to imply, you cannot increase the power of an engine under given conditions without using more fuel.

Even though VW do supply similar cars with 1.9L engines set up to produce different power outputs, whilst in part it will be a different ECU map, you do not know what other parts of the engine or the rest of the car are also different to cope with the difference in power output.

It is interesting to note that the Remap supplier has to point out that their product will affect your warranty rights.

 

[seth1]

Interesting this one again,Funny how they recommend a safe 30%power increase.Sounds similar to what i said on an earlier post.John L i must advise you that in some cases "adding more fuel"to gain power is not always required,by a simple raise in fuel pressure will deliever more power.

But interestingly enough it still doesnt change my opinon of ebay "specials"or so called reputable firms which i may add ive had dealings with two cowboy outfits,and without being disrespectful the majority of people dont know how a healthy powerunit should sound,never mind an unhealthy one.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Interesting this one again,Funny how they recommend a safe 30%power increase.Sounds similar to what i said on an earlier post.John L i must advise you that in some cases "adding more fuel"to gain power is not always required,by a simple raise in fuel pressure will deliever more power.

But interestingly enough it still doesnt change my opinon of ebay "specials"or so called reputable firms which i may add ive had dealings with two cowboy outfits,and without being disrespectful the majority of people dont know how a healthy powerunit should sound,never mind an unhealthy one.

I am not familiar with raising the fuel pressure, do you mean the fuel line pressure or the compression ratio?

 

[seth1]

I am not familiar with raising the fuel pressure, do you mean the fuel line pressure or the compression ratio?

Hello John L,to answer your question,fuel delievery pressure.(injection pressure)

 

[NigelHutson]

Interesting this one again,Funny how they recommend a safe 30%power increase.Sounds similar to what i said on an earlier post.John L i must advise you that in some cases "adding more fuel"to gain power is not always required,by a simple raise in fuel pressure will deliever more power.

But interestingly enough it still doesnt change my opinon of ebay "specials"or so called reputable firms which i may add ive had dealings with two cowboy outfits,and without being disrespectful the majority of people dont know how a healthy powerunit should sound,never mind an unhealthy one.

Raising fuel pressure? How? In the majority of cases, the extra fuel is injected because the injector is open for longer (albeit measured in milli-seconds). Unless fuel pumps and pressure regulators are changed (and they aren't when either a remap or tuning box is used) the pressure cannot increase (certainly in the case of a common rail unit - I know VW have lagged well behind on this, but even they've gone that way now).

 

[seth1]

Raising fuel pressure? How? In the majority of cases, the extra fuel is injected because the injector is open for longer (albeit measured in milli-seconds). Unless fuel pumps and pressure regulators are changed (and they aren't when either a remap or tuning box is used) the pressure cannot increase (certainly in the case of a common rail unit - I know VW have lagged well behind on this, but even they've gone that way now).

The majority of cheap tuning boxs found on ebay,that plug into the commonrail pressure sensor do exactly what i describe,work by increasing fuel pressure.

When i refered to this,it was in relation to general methods.The reason why i refer to these as cheap is ive seen the damage they can do,for example split injector bodys,leading to sumps full of diesel,cracked fuel rails,high pressure pumps leaking.

The main units we assemble/recondition/repair,have a provision for raising f/pressure from OEM.