Elddis Avante heavy nose weight.

Oct 9, 2013
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I have just changed to an Elddis Avante 574 (twin rear single beds) and am having real issues trying to achieve a nose weight of under 100Kg! I can't use the front locker for anything other than a 6Kg light gas bottle and the storage under the lounge seats is also unusable if I am to achieve 90KG. The Elddis is a 2012 model and is as left the factory apart from the addition of a motor mover which was transferred from my Ace caravan. The motor mover was fitted by a main dealer and is fitted in front of the single axle as is the usual I believe! Is this the cause of the high nose weight and would it be worthwhile paying to have it moved to a position behind the axle? Will it make that much difference to the nose weight? The Ace had the same motor mover, fitted in front of the axle and was not a problem with the weight.
Does anyone have any experience of the Elddis issue or advise if moving the motor mover to the rear of the axle would help? I am concerned that the correct loading can't be easily achieved on this caravan so any advice would be welcome!
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Brian

sorry to hear of your problem.

Can you help the boffins on here by describing exactly how you are measuring the noseweight , what type of scales .I assume you are on the level. The height from the hitch socket to the ground you are using for measurement will also help.
With answers to these questions and there may be more from others I am sure we can find you a solution .
 
Oct 9, 2013
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Dustydog, Thanks for the reply and some further detail is below as requested.

I use a Kampa Noseweight Indicator which was bought from Towsure. The description is as follows:

Noseweight gauge featuring a large easy read accurate scale, soft top prevents damage to hitch and has a great large stable base. This noseweight guide is fully tested for greater accuracy.

Spring centralising tube which stops spragging
Heavy duty metal construction
Calibrated to weigh between 50kg and 100kg
Size: 33 x 3.5cm
Piano wire Spring
Material: Aluminium
Weight: 500g
Colour: Silver

Before measuring the nose weight I have the van level, jockey wheel down and corner steadies up. Fit the Noseweight indicator into the Winterhoff hitch socket ensuring the van remains level. I use chocks under the gauge if required to keep the van level and then raise the jockey wheel slowly and let the gauge "take the strain" . This is always around the 100Kg mark and I only have the gas 6Kg light in the front locker. Nothing is in the front lockers inside the van and there is some minimal weight in the under bed storage at the rear of the axle. Pillows, bedding and a porch awning all stored as close to the axle as possible.
I used the same gauge on my previous Ace van and always found it useful and could store quite a lot in the front outside locker without getting close to 100Kg, in fact I could do this and achieve a desired nose weighting of between 70 and 75Kg.
Any help would be really appreciated.and let me know if any further info is required!
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Brian, I was having the same problem with my Fleetwood.
Using a Pyramid gauge similar to your Kampa one.
Then I went back to the tried and tested old fashioned way of the bathroom scales.
This was showing a differance of 27 kg under the Pyramid, so I was actually travelling way above the permitted weight!!
I even went and bought another set of bathroom scales and they confirmed the Pyramid was reading 27 kg over.
My front locker now has 2 gas bottles, spare wheel, chocs, ramps,EHU cable and other bits and pieces, this is counter balanced with the rear underbed storage, 2 chairs, windbreaks and the aquaroll and wastemaster, hope this helps.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Thanks Brian

A very comprehensive explanation.

Back to basics for a moment.
Have you taken a nose weight measurement with the caravan empty but as delivered from Elddis?
Elddis shod be able to give you their factory delivered nose weight.
It will be interesting to see how that compares.
As far as I can see Elddis recommend a maximum nose weight of 100kgs.
Thus I'd be surprised if they sold an empty van with a heavier weight.
Generally it be a case of just balancing the see saw
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Brian.

I have towed many different caravans, some with what seems to be heavier than average nose weights, but I have always been able to achieve my desired nose weight either by rearranging the items in the caravan or by adding ballast for trim. I used to carry empty water containers, that I could fill and use to provide the ballast. In your case I suggest moving the awning and poles further behind the axle. Whilst this will increase the pendulum moment, we are only dealing with perhaps 20Kg so it should still be well within the control of the vehicle.

Unfortunately your method of measuring nose weight is not correct. The EU regulations require the nose weight of the trailer to be measured with the hitch at the same height as when it is coupled to the tow vehicle and ready to tow with all luggage and passengers. That usually means the caravan is not level, more often than not it will be slightly nose down, which will tend to increase the nose weight measurement which is why I said 'unfortunately'

The height of the hitch is important, because if you tip a caravan up or down from its towing angle the actual nose weight changes.

It is also unfortunate you have purchased a nose weight gauge because none of the commercially available gauges (at the time of writing) have the ability to be adjusted for towing height, which introduces an inaccuracy. Also as most of then simply use a spring in compression, t means depending on the applied load the length of the device changes the measurement height, another inaccuracy, and finally as far as I am aware only one manufacture claims their gauge is 'calibrated' but even then the graduations are so wide its difficult to make an accurate reading. Gagakev has already pointed out that his gauge was clearly far from accurate. So you can see I have a very dim view of these propriety nose weight gauges.

How To Measure Nose Weight

Nose weight will vary if you load your car or caravan differently. So you can only accurately measure your nose weight when you are set up with all your luggage and passengers and ready to tow.

Find a piece of horizontal ground big enough for your outfit
Park up and leave your loaded caravan coupled to the loaded car.
Measure and record the height of the hitch from the ground
Chock the caravan wheels and uncouple the caravan, release the caravan brake .
Place your measurement device under the hitch and adjust it to set the caravan hitch to same height as when it was coupled to the car.
Make sure no steadies or the jockey are touching the floor and then take your nose weight reading.

What can go wrong!
Well several things, the ground must be as level and horizontal as possible, any slope will affect the nose weight reading.
And at the time of writing, non of the retail nose weight gauges allow you to adjust their height to match the correct coupling height
And the majority of the retail nose weight gauges have coarse measurement graduations preventing you from making an accurate reading, and most of the gauges are not guaranteed to be accurate and repeatable.
So basically anyone who uses a retail gauge in practice cannot say with the required degree of accuracy what their nose weight actually is.

A Practical Solution

Fortunately there is a reasonably practical solution. Most of us already have a set of bathroom scales, which have fine graduations, and in all probability will be inherently more accurate than most of the dedicated nose weight gauges.
Find a piece of flat wood that will lie on the scales to protect them. either find some blocks or caravan step to raise the scales to the required height, or cut a length of broom handle to stand on the scales and wood, such that the hitch is supported at the required height.

You can also check the accuracy of your scales by loading then with known weights, for example take an empty 25 Litre plastic bottle, weigh it, then fill it with 25 Litres of water and re weigh it, The difference in the readings should be 25Kg
 
Oct 9, 2013
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Guys,
Thank you all very much for the information and advice regarding my issue with the Elddis. I now have a lot to look into to see if I can resolve the issue. I don't have bathroom scales but will happily purchase a set. Hope I don't scare myself too much when I actually weigh myself though!!!!!
I can easily set up the van tomorrow and test the weight as suggested albeit as left the factory Plus the motor mover as I really don't fancy having to drop these. I don't believe a manufacturer like Elddis would supply a van that can't achieve their maximum nose weight of 100Kg, same as my car by the way.
I am sure that I can get it closer to where I would like it to be, around 75Kgs or so, when I follow the steps given by you all.
Thanks yet again for you all taking the time to reply with the valuable advice and I will let you know when tested tomorrow or Friday.

Thanks guys appreciate it all.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Made one of these you could make one yourself , and its adjustable for the heights.

IMG_0960_zpsc2113de0.jpg


IMG_0959_zps4e2f9409.jpg


It's Based on Sir Sprockets design
 
Jul 11, 2006
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We are actually talking here of a major industry problem which it appears the manufacturers won't admit to or do anything about.
I have a 2010 Bailey Pegasus 462 which has a rated noseweight ex factory of 67Kg. How do you attach that to an Octavia which has a maximum ball load of 60Kg?
Thankfully I didn't buy the Unicorn 1 which is 88Kg ex factory - the (removable) ball on my Passat B6 estate is rated 85Kg and a the car is rated maximum of 90Kg. I note that in the Unicorn 2 the gas bottle has been moved to a new external access box behind the wheels. I would add that if you RTFM you will find that the Al-Ko chassis is only rated 100Kg maximum on the nose!
Having changed from a Pageant Majestic Series 5 we loaded up the Peg in similar fashion - noseweight 126Kg!!! We went and bought some Really Useful boxes and put everything of weight in them and put said boxes in the wardrobe which is in the bathroom at the back. With a bit more juggling around we ended up with 78Kg on the ball, which allow us to relocate some items (quilts and pillows etc) to eventually end up with 85Kg - and it tows like a dream.
Many people will warn of the pendulum effect if you have too much weight at the back, but in the last two years (we have only had the van since 11/12) we have been to the Pyrenes and to Alsace and not had a moments trouble.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Woody.

First and foremost it is the drivers responsibility to ensure their outfit follows the rules and is safe.

Neither the car or caravan manufacture knows what combination of car or caravan any customer will choose, so they are not beholden to ensure compatibility of their products with each others.

Again it is the drivers responsibility to ensure the correct matches are made.

Any caravan manufacture that quotes a nose weight can only do so for the vans ex-works weight. They can of course specify the maximum allowed nose load, but the working nose load of a caravan is determined on how you load your caravan, and again its the drivers responsibility to trim the load to give the desired nose weight.

I know i'm apparently distancing caravan manufacturers from the problem, but legally that how its is. Morally how ever I do agree the manufacturers should do more to be helpful with nose load margins, by making vans that have a lower ex works nose load. But as I have stressed It's the drivers responsibility.

Ultimately if you don't like the ex works nose weight don't buy the caravan.

I have to comment that its unnecessary to use phrases that use or imply expletives in posts.
 
Oct 9, 2013
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Sir Gagakev
I did a very quick test last night and compared the nose weight gauge I had with my new electronic bathroom scales. I loaded up the gauge with 60Kg and then measured the same load (garden edging by the way) on the scales and they measured 53Kg. I have a feeling that this will be even more of a gap with heavier loads when tried properly on the caravan as this is the real test. I don't expect the gauge to be linear in properties and may show more of a gap. I can come up with something using the scales and an adjustable rod to ensure the height is maintained as it should be (slightly nose down in my case). I intend trying this later today if I get the chance.
I might even get the chance to follow your photos and build a proper device which I can use to ensure total accuracy and build experience of the required distribution of weight.

Thanks yet again for your help, the device looks great and would be worthwhile fabricating.
 
Oct 9, 2013
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Woody3 / Prof JohnL,

It is always nice to hear other informed views and I enjoyed reading both your latest replies. I do agree that it is the owners responsibility to ensure the correct loading is maintained, hence my original question! As a fairly new caravanner I was looking for some experienced views on how to achieve and maintain the correct weight distribution for my new van as my main concern is Safety. I am also convinced that no major manufacturer would produce a caravan that is inherently unsafe and can only state specifications such as nose weight as they know it to be which is ex-works. The responsibility to ensure I stay under the 100Kg max for the van and my car is mine. The safety of my family being the major factor for me of course.
You guys, and others, have pointed me in the right direction and I have a few things to try out as I said so thank you all again for your input.
 
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