Elddis Major Damp

[Matt Hay]

Hi All

So back in Feb 2020 we purchased a brand new Elddis 554. Since then we have been battling with the dealer, the manufacturer and the bodyshop to get it in for repair, due to severe damp issues throughout most of the vehicle, upto 70% in some places.
We have been assured by the manufacturer that once repaired then no one will be able to see the severity of the damp repair via records however I know this is untrue. Any Elddis agent can log on and see all warranty repairs and history via their system and the vehicle chassis number. Also if we come to sell and the buyer asks if it has any damp issues in the past them we cant lie and will have to declare the problems.
I need to establish what the loss of value to the van will be, has anyone ever had experience of this problem before and what was their outcome, how did they deal with it. We had to get a solicitor involved just to get it in for repair but that cost a fortune and really want try and avoid further legal costs.

Update, the van has eventually been repaired after the threat of further legal action, however we have just had it re-tested and damp of between 21 and 23% has been found in the back end, which was one of the worst affected areas.

I forwarded this onto Elddis who basically have offered us the cost of the test back (£50), this I find an insult as so far todate we are out of pocket by almost £1500 to just get it to this point.

What would be some suggestions for further action, I don't want to go to the expense of countless sols letters at £200 per hour....

Cheers
Matt and Michelle

 

[otherclive]

I am surprised that you did not invoke the UK consumer protection laws via CRA 2015 and reject it. . My advice would be to pay Which around £90 for their legal advise which would be the best option. For £90 you would get 12 months access and advise. It’s such a complex situation forum answers may confuse you.

Do it now without delay

 

[ProfJohnL]

First and foremost whilst you are in dispute with either the dealer, manufacturer or finance house, please do not identify them in the forum - see the forum rules.

Just as I was composing this Other clive has posted some good advice.

I suggest you read up about the Consumer Rights Act (2015) which is designed to help clarify situations like yours.

The other possible avenue is the Consumer Credit Act that jointly make the seller and the finance company responsible for the goods/services for which finance was used.

 

[Buckman]

Maybe it is time to consider rejecting the caravn and get a refund? We rejected ours at 11 months as it was still within the 6 month window from delivery. Every time it went in for repair, the time frame was suspended.

As per Other Clive contact Which legal Services for advice. We sued them to take on the finance house and also the Financial Ombudsman. If the caravan is on finance i.e. HP then your contract is with the finance house and not the dealer.

Here is the Consumer Rights Act 2015 take note of clauses 9, 10 and 11 and then 19, 20, 22 & 23.

 

[Dustydog]

“So back in Feb 2020 we purchased a brand new Elddis 554. Since then we have been battling with the dealer, the manufacturer and the bodyshop to get it in for repair, due to severe damp issues throughout most of the vehicle, upto 70% in some places.”

I expect there is a written history log of the OPs attempts to get a remedy from the Dealer and under the water ingress warranty from Elddis. .
Correct me if I am wrong but under CRA the clock starts ticking as soon as a problem is notified. If the Dealer does not carry out a proper remedy the clock is still running in the OPs favour.
As the others have said reject the caravan in writing to the Dealer demanding a full and unconditional refund..
And I echo Clive’s and Buckman’s advice. Do it now, do not delay but don’t let this put you off caravanning. Good luck

 

[Buckman]

“So back in Feb 2020 we purchased a brand new Elddis 554. Since then we have been battling with the dealer, the manufacturer and the bodyshop to get it in for repair, due to severe damp issues throughout most of the vehicle, upto 70% in some places.”

I expect there is a written history log of the OPs attempts to get a remedy from the Dealer and under the water ingress warranty from Elddis. .
Correct me if I am wrong but under CRA the clock starts ticking as soon as a problem is notified. If the Dealer does not carry out a proper remedy the clock is still running in the OPs favour.
As the others have said reject the caravan in writing to the Dealer demanding a full and unconditional refund..
And I echo Clive’s and Buckman’s advice. Do it now, do not delay but don’t let this put you off caravanning. Good luck

Other way around. Clock stops ticking for 30 day or 6 month window. LOL! As mentioned previously I would strongly suggest that OP contacts Which Legal Service as soon as possible.

 

[Raywood]

I do think the mistake here was accepting the repair when the damp issue first came up, rather than rejecting the caravan at that time. Having accepted the repair I think you have lost any chance of rejecting the caravan unless you can show the repair was faulty and you seem to have agreed that there is no obvious problem.
As for the potential loss on the sale I cannot see any legislation which would help but possibly a solicitor can tell you for sure. The potential problem with selling it does seem to refer only to Eldiss dealers though.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Edit

...We have been assured by the manufacturer that once repaired then no one will be able to see the severity of the damp repair via records however I know this is untrue. Any Elddis agent can log on and see all warranty repairs and history via their system and the vehicle chassis number. Also if we come to sell and the buyer asks if it has any damp issues in the past them we cant lie and will have to declare the problems...

With regards the sale of anything, the seller should be honest, and even if a previous damp repair has been repaired so well there is no overt sign of the problem or the repair, if a potential buyer asks if the the caravan has suffered with damp, then morally and legally you have to declare the facts.

If you do not describe the goods honestly or accurately or you deliberately hide the facts, you could be liable if the buyer decides to pursue the matter.

 

[Buckman]

Edit


With regards the sale of anything, the seller should be honest, and even if a previous damp repair has been repaired so well there is no overt sign of the problem or the repair, if a potential buyer asks if the the caravan has suffered with damp, then morally and legally you have to declare the facts.

If you do not describe the goods honestly or accurately or you deliberately hide the facts, you could be liable if the buyer decides to pursue the matter.

Quite correct as many people forget this when selling a caravan that may have issues even though CRA 2015 does not apply to private sales

 

[Dustydog]

Edit


With regards the sale of anything, the seller should be honest, and even if a previous damp repair has been repaired so well there is no overt sign of the problem or the repair, if a potential buyer asks if the the caravan has suffered with damp, then morally and legally you have to declare the facts.

If you do not describe the goods honestly or accurately or you deliberately hide the facts, you could be liable if the buyer decides to pursue the matter.

Prof. Absolutely agree with you. But if the OP does what you and I advise he will suffer a depreciation in market value. I will not be party to to a non disclosure, nor will you. So in the event of full disclosure who do you think should pick up the shortfall?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof. Absolutely agree with you. But if the OP does what you and I advise he will suffer a depreciation in market value. I will not be party to to a non disclosure, nor will you. So in the event of full disclosure who do you think should pick up the shortfall?

I was not commenting specifically about who might be liable for the problem, just confirming the moral responsibility for being honest.

But assuming the fault is covered by the CRA, ( because at yet that has not been confirmed) then there would be a liability on the retail seller for selling faulty goods. How that liability is remedied is not entirely clear becasue the caravan is now over two years old.

 

[Buckman]

I would think excluding accidental damage that most, if not all, damp issues are covered by CRA 2015 as it would be an inherent fault from day one that may have taken up to 5 or 6 years to manifest itself. In this case the caravan is under 3 years old so CRA 2015 should apply taking inot consideration that price paid, the number of times it has been back to the dealer for the same damp and other faults.

The OP probably will not get a full refund, but should get a substantial refund however the OP has not been back on here and updated us since their post on 22nd Sept?

 

[Raywood]

Edit


With regards the sale of anything, the seller should be honest, and even if a previous damp repair has been repaired so well there is no overt sign of the problem or the repair, if a potential buyer asks if the the caravan has suffered with damp, then morally and legally you have to declare the facts.

If you do not describe the goods honestly or accurately or you deliberately hide the facts, you could be liable if the buyer decides to pursue the matter.

Legally you do not have to tell a potential buyer unless they ask, in which case you do have to tell the truth. Morality is a different issue though.
Our last caravan suffered from damp issues, but as we traded it in to the dealer who dealt with it we had no problem on this point. What was clear though from the trade in offer we got was that the repaired caravan suffered no loss of value, although different dealers might try to use it as a negotiating point.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Legally you do not have to tell a potential buyer unless they ask, in which case you do have to tell the truth. Morality is a different issue though.
...

Which is exactly why I wrote "if the buyer asks"

 

[Hutch]

I would think that with a damp readings of 21 to 23%, the dealer would hopefully say to monitor it every three months, to ensure the levels are coming down , if they are increasing then you have, a legitimet claim against a bad repair.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Because it could be of interest to other people in different situations I have just posted a comment and video about the CRA

Your buying rights (Consumer Rights Act)

Over the years I have been contributing to this forum, there have been countless instances where someone has bought a caravan, and subsequently had a problem with it, and thus has asked for any ideas or help on what to do. A number of these cases have needed to be resolved by invoking their...

forums.practicalcaravan.com

 

[Buckman]

The CRA 2015 legislation is very clear and fairly straight forward regarding your rights. Advice from Which Legal Services is the way forward however as OP has not been back since they posted, maybe we now are wasting our time making any further comments?

 

[Hutch]

The CRA 2015 legislation is very clear and fairly straight forward regarding your rights. Advice from Which Legal Services is the way forward however as OP has not been back since they posted, maybe we now are wasting our time making any further comments?

The trouble is, what is acceptable level of damp in a caravan ?

 

[Buckman]

The trouble is, what is acceptable level of damp in a caravan ?

I would think none would be the answer however 10% should be acceptable depending on time of year.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I do not know what specific percentage the caravan industry accepts as normal moisture levels, but 10% is unrealistically low for an item that has lots of free air circulating around it. And it does change depending on the ambient humidity levels -in autumn it tends to be higher.

The British Construction industry uses these levels:-
Acceptable moisture levels in wood are typically:

• Furniture 6-9%
• Construction 9-14%

Moisture content MC

Moisture content MC - Designing Buildings - Share your construction industry knowledge. The term 'moisture content' (or water content) refers to the amount of water that is contained in the pores (voids) of a material. It is usually expressed as the percentage by mass of the water present...

www.designingbuildings.co.uk

 

[Dustydog]

I stole this from another forum. I am sure if he was able Damian would comment more.

Here are the industry reference points relating to moisture levels in caravans.
These measurements are ONLY for use with the Protimeter tester, not any of the cheap and cheerful, and very misleading, other makes.
my own German meter gives the same readings as my AWS.

Readings between 0-15% no cause for concern

Readings between 15-20% engineer to make note of readings and recheck at next service.

Readings between 20-24% possible early sign of water ingress, look for tangible evidence or ask for
Recheck.

Readings between 25-30% moisture evident, remedial work necessary, may not require stripdown unless surface damage (staining, pimpling and softness) is apparent. There is a risk of wallboard deterioration due to retained moisture in the structure if re sealed only.

Reading of 31% and above structural damage is occurring, deterioration inevitable, full stripdown of affected area is required

 

[longtailtit]

I hope the following helps;

Here's a fairly definitive excerpt lifted from our report we commissioned on our caravan:

"The industry has an agreed set of readings and their effects. These are published by the Mobile Caravan Engineers Association and the Approved Workshop Scheme (run by the National Caravan Council).

• 0-15% - No reason for concern.
• 15-20% - May require further investigation. Consider recheck after 3 months.
• 20-30% - Will identify areas needing remedial work. Early signs of water ingress. Consider
recheck after 3 months.
• Over 30% - Structural damage may be occurring and deterioration is inevitable

Needless to say the same expert has detected damp in our Elddis Xplore, he goes on to say:

"In this case we have readings of 55% moisture in the ceiling. There is no doubt that damage has been caused and it will continue to deteriorate without urgent attention."

Elddis's behaviour is disgraceful in my view: - forcing customers to waste days & weeks collecting evidence , photos, data & wasting their money to work through the mire of hurdles and advice needed to prove the simple fact that :

Eldiss is producing shoddy caravans and are doing their utmost to blame the customer for it in any way they can!

 

[otherclive]

I stole this from another forum. I am sure if he was able Damian would comment more.

Here are the industry reference points relating to moisture levels in caravans.
These measurements are ONLY for use with the Protimeter tester, not any of the cheap and cheerful, and very misleading, other makes.
my own German meter gives the same readings as my AWS.

Readings between 0-15% no cause for concern

Readings between 15-20% engineer to make note of readings and recheck at next service.

Readings between 20-24% possible early sign of water ingress, look for tangible evidence or ask for
Recheck.

Readings between 25-30% moisture evident, remedial work necessary, may not require stripdown unless surface damage (staining, pimpling and softness) is apparent. There is a risk of wallboard deterioration due to retained moisture in the structure if re sealed only.

Reading of 31% and above structural damage is occurring, deterioration inevitable, full stripdown of affected area is required

At 15-20% I would be rechecking with my own meter. And whilst not a professional piece of kit it would allow me to follow the trend. 12 months seems an awful long time if you don’t know whether readings are moving upwards or downwards. The 3 months posted above is more realistic.

 

[Dustydog]

Needless to say the same expert has detected damp in our Elddis Xplore, he goes on to say:

"In this case we have readings of 55% moisture in the ceiling. There is no doubt that damage has been caused and it will continue to deteriorate without urgent attention."

Elddis's behaviour is disgraceful in my view: - forcing customers to waste days & weeks collecting evidence , photos, data & wasting their money to work through the mire of hurdles and advice needed to prove the simple fact that :

Eldiss is producing shoddy caravans and are doing their utmost to blame the customer for it in any way they can!

It’s always sad to hear these kind of reports. How old is your Elddis? Presumably you are in a dialogue with your dealer? Your dealer under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 is primarily responsible for resolving your problem within prescribed time scales.

 

[Raywood]

Clive, I agree, an awful lot of damage can happen in 12 months, 3 months is more realistic in my book. Damp can only get worse over time so prompt attention is required.