Elddis Major Damp

[Dustydog]

We all agree the OP must seek professional Legal Advice for further pursuance of his claim.

I consider Elddis are where the buck stops. They agreed to pay the bill and employed the Dealer to complete the repairs within the terms and conditions of their Warranty. The OP could have used any Elddis dealer subject to that Dealer obtaining Elddis agreement.

Thus in either case the ultimate Employer is still Elddis.
Hence my earlier reference to Vicarious Legal Liability. The OP remains the customer throughout not Employer.
I suspect the OP Legal expert will recommend both the Dealer and Elddis are named as Defendants in any ensuing litigation.

Hopefully the OP will let us know the final outcome. I wish him well. This shouldn’t be happening in the Caravan world🤬

 

[Raywood]

I agree good legal advice would help and have suggested trying the clubs help line if the OP is a member. How to proceed is the problem and a solicitor would possibly be too expensive and there is some doubt over what the claimant could get here. My idea is to simply go for£10,000 using the small claims system which is far more likely to succeed is cheaper and carries less risk.
I cannot agree that Eldiss employed the dealer, the OP elected to claim for the repair through the dealer and Eldiss simply authorised them to do the work. The OP could have used other firms to do the work and so the dealer was his choice, Eldiss would have accepted a different firm if approached assuming he could find one. This may not be what is the ideal situation but it is the legal one.

 

[Dustydog]

Ray, whatever we think the OP is at sea on this one. Litigation is notoriously expensive yet if you have nothing you get everything.
If the chance arose I know a lot of us would love to debate the whys and where fors over a pint or two. One day perhaps.
Meanwhile I can only wish the OP the very best on his case with the Dealer and Elddis.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks all- the repairs are so great the caravan is a write off - I am shaking as i write this.

just to confirm the caravan was 4 years old when it had its repairs

I appreciate this is a difficult subject for you, but exactly who has declared the caravan is a write off?

 

[Raywood]

Ray, whatever we think the OP is at sea on this one. Litigation is notoriously expensive yet if you have nothing you get everything.
If the chance arose I know a lot of us would love to debate the whys and where fors over a pint or two. One day perhaps.
Meanwhile I can only wish the OP the very best on his case with the Dealer and Elddis.

I accept the problem with litigation, I have dealt with lots of it, which is why I suggested limiting the claim to £10,000 and using the small claims court. That way you are not at risk for a large defence bill if you do lose and your own costs are very limited as you do not need a solicitor. If there is a good expert report available to support then case then defending it would not only be expensive for the dealer but also very dicey. Given what has happened I do think this sounds to be a case worth the risk.

 

[longtailtit]

Hi all - great points raised here and hopefully I will be able to add some clarity as time goes on.

I am so outraged by our treatment. Fortunately, I have enough time on my hands to sort this legal mess, since retiring from a full time post-doc research post.

I am acutely aware that my experiences could also be helpful to other poor caravanners who have had a torrid time with repairs done (within the 6 year window) but those repairs have failed to fix the underlying fault and that this becomes apparent after the 6year anniversary.

Obviously dealers bodging repairs until the 6 year deadline passes would mean that many caravanners would need to consider selling their caravans at the 6 year point if as they couldn't rely on previous warranty/SGA/CRA repairs holding.

I am happy to answer all your queries, but first I want to ask whether my situation ought to be stripped out into another thread? I'm not the original OP although there are very definite similarities - so my experiences may be helpful to him/her.

I'll wait to hear what is best......

 

[Dustydog]

Many thanks Longtailtit.
Sadly a lot of people requiring ideas and help go away and never give us Forumites any feed back. So your offer is very much appreciated.

Thinking allowed and I think we touched on this before The Latent Defects Act.
This reference is relevant for you:-

“It is section 14A of the Limitation Act 1980 that is relevant for the purposes of establishing limitation for latent defect claims. A claim cannot be brought after the expiration of either:

• Six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued; or
• Three years from the date on which the Claimant had both the knowledge required for bringing an action for damages in respect of the relevant damage and a right to bring such an action.

For the purposes of latent defect claims the crux is the date of knowledge”.

I wish you every success in seeking resolution and again thankyou for keeping us posted.

I‘ll leave moving the thread to the Mods

 

[Raywood]

I have said this point several times on threads and glad someone else confirms it.
The limit though is five years in Scotland as we like to be different.

 

[ProfJohnL]

On several occasions recently a few contributors have made reference to "The Latent Defects Act. " and implied that it allows a build problem with a caravan might have 6 years of possible action from the point in time the defect became apparent. This could of course be very useful for the problem in this thread, but it has niggled me that I have not heard of this Act being mentioned in similar circumstances by the likes of Which or the Money Saving expert. I could of course just not seen the posts where it has been used, but it has piqued my interest so I have done some digging.

Firstly I could not find any reference to a " Latent Defects Act" But there is a "Latent Damage Act revised 1986). Using Which's search facility I still could not find any mention of the act in the first 100 listings.

The Govt own web site provides the text of the Act:-

Latent Damage Act 1986

An Act to amend the law about limitation of actions in relation to actions for damages for negligence not involving personal injuries; and to provide for a person taking an interest in property to have, in certain circumstances, a cause of action in respect of negligent damage to the property...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Having scanned the text admittedly very quickly, two things stand out.
The first thing, there are many references to buildings, or properties, and not goods, and secondly the time scales for making claims are not as clear cut as has been suggested by other contributors.

I am not in a position to categorically say this act is not applicable, but it is certainly conspicuous by its absence in other retail purchase cases.

It reinforces my concern that the OP really does need to take professional advice.

 

[Dustydog]

My apologies for using Defect instead of damage. The revised 1986 Act. Section 14A of the Limitation Act 1980 is correct.

All the contributors on here have merely given the OP some ideas to pursue. He seems to have a very good grasp so far and is probably well ahead of the game. Hopefully he will let us know the final result.

 

[longtailtit]

Having scanned the text admittedly very quickly, two things stand out.
The first thing, there are many references to buildings, or properties, and not goods, and secondly the time scales for making claims are not as clear cut as has been suggested by other contributors.

I am not in a position to categorically say this act is not applicable, but it is certainly conspicuous by its absence in other retail purchase cases.

It reinforces my concern that the OP really does need to take professional advice.

Thanks everyone for your support - nice to have.

If the moderator is happy - I am happy to stay on this post - hopefully I will eventually be able to add some clarity for everyone, so that could be helpful.

I think you may be right in that the Latent Damage Act is specific for properties (i.e. houses, commercial builds etc) - I knew about the Act and have actually read several legal reviews on it and they only refer to bricks and mortar cases.

However, I will raise it once I can get an "audience" with our Family Legal Protection Insurance solicitor. He is v good and knows his stuff (he deals with anything on wheels; including high end cases!) but his remit is currently too narrow in that he has only been tasked with looking at our 2014 incident (i.e. at the time of purchase ). He has already dismissed this 2014 breach as out of time and the warranty too narrow to help or at least with a greater than 50% success rate (but I guess no-one has ever tested Elddis' interpretation of the warranty in court - that would be for another day!)

So currently I am awaiting on the Family Legal Protection Insurance Claims Handler Supervisor to enlarge their solicitor's remit to include our important 2018 breach (i.e. the defective repair).

The Insurance company has mis-interpreted their policy wording. They should be looking at both the 2014 & 2018 incidents as they are linked - but they have only investigated the 2014 incident to date.

I have written to the Insurance company to prove that they have erred by reference to a very useful (& definitive) case in the Court of Appeal in Jan 2022 (this is regarding the aggregation of claims with the same "originating cause" - this would be the 2014 & 2018 claims in our case - but don't worry about these details).

Whilst waiting for the Insurance company to reply, I received some valuable documentary evidence from Elddis/and the dealer using the "Subject Access Request" procedure - these help my case.

A "Subject Access Request" is a powerful way to obtain evidence that you currently don't hold.

Did you know that it is an offence for Elddis or the dealer not to provide the requested documents within 30 days of written request? Our Expert put us on to this.

I wrote to both Elddis and the dealer independently and asked for copies of all emails between the dealer and Elddis over specific dates; all documents and photos that they hold regarding to the repair done in 2018 including the so-called "warranty claim form"; all invoices for the repair etc. etc.

For anyone thinking of using the "Subject Access Request" procedure there are templates and information available online (including Which? pages).... it's totally free and you've nothing to lose.

Will keep you posted

 

[Raywood]

Thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[longtailtit]

OK. I spoke to my solicitor (though Family Legal Protection) for over an hour yesterday - and yes he really does know what he is doing. He deals on a regular basis in high value vehicle cases (think high end cars!).

He confirms that the quantum for the damages on our caravan case are equivalent to the value of the caravan itself.

So in other words, if we don't get justice - then I might as well throw my Elddis in the bin!

He has one trick up his sleeve - but he may also get a barrister to look at it as we have a lot of evidence now (i.e. documents).

What I think of Elddis is unprintable I'm afraid.

 

[Buckman]

OK. I spoke to my solicitor (though Family Legal Protection) for over an hour yesterday - and yes he really does know what he is doing. He deals on a regular basis in high value vehicle cases (think high end cars!).

He confirms that the quantum for the damages on our caravan case are equivalent to the value of the caravan itself.

So in other words, if we don't get justice - then I might as well throw my Elddis in the bin!

He has one trick up his sleeve - but he may also get a barrister to look at it as we have a lot of evidence now (i.e. documents).

What I think of Elddis is unprintable I'm afraid.

The caravan is over 7 years old and is covered by Sale of Goods Act so you will struggle for any claim against the seller at this point no matter how much proof you may have in your possession.

Have you sent the dealer a Subject Access Request as that may help? Rather than waste time and money with any solicitor, get expert third party advice from consumer organisation Which Legal Services.

The first consultation is free, but I suspect they will tell you that you may be wasting your time. It would be interesting to know their take on the issue.

Good luck.

 

[otherclive]

The caravan is over 7 years old and is covered by Sale of Goods Act so you will struggle for any claim against the seller at this point no matter how much proof you may have in your possession.

Have you sent the dealer a Subject Access Request as that may help? Rather than waste time and money with any solicitor, get expert third party advice from consumer organisation Which Legal Services.

The first consultation is free, but I suspect they will tell you that you may be wasting your time. It would be interesting to know their take on the issue.

Good luck.

In #61 and earlier the OP described the SAR, and from his most recent post I think the solicitors charges are funded by his legal protection policy.

 

[Raywood]

The caravan is over 7 years old and is covered by Sale of Goods Act so you will struggle for any claim against the seller at this point no matter how much proof you may have in your possession.

Have you sent the dealer a Subject Access Request as that may help? Rather than waste time and money with any solicitor, get expert third party advice from consumer organisation Which Legal Services.

The first consultation is free, but I suspect they will tell you that you may be wasting your time. It would be interesting to know their take on the issue.

Good luck.

The caravan had subsequent repairs under warranty and these should be the basis of the claim rather than the Sale of Goods Act. The repairs should have been carried out to a satisfactory standard and it is this that is the basis of the claim.
The solicitor is provided by her legal costs insurer meaning the defendants, which I would suggest would be the dealer who did the repair would be faced with a claimant who is protected against costs while they have to pay theirs and are plainly in great difficulty. I suspect they will need to try and at least compromise the case just to keep costs down.

 

[longtailtit]

"The caravan is over 7 years old and is covered by Sale of Goods Act so you will struggle for any claim against the seller at this point no matter how much proof you may have in your possession"

Hi. So everyone would be better off selling their Elddis caravans at 6 years old for the simple reason that Elddis can't be trusted to provide caravans free of manufacturing faults & fit for purpose that go on past 6 years (or we could all just bin them I suppose, like mine!)

mine still has v major manufacturing faults that the Dealer(& Elddis) still hasn't cleared ......

 

[Buckman]

"The caravan is over 7 years old and is covered by Sale of Goods Act so you will struggle for any claim against the seller at this point no matter how much proof you may have in your possession"

Hi. So everyone would be better off selling their Elddis caravans at 6 years old for the simple reason that Elddis can't be trusted to provide caravans free of manufacturing faults & fit for purpose that go on past 6 years (or we could all just bin them I suppose, like mine!)

mine still has v major manufacturing faults that Elddis still hasn't cleared ......

All brands are the same and have similar issues. We have had issues with Lunar, Bailey and Swift caravans in the past however they most were second hand caravans and covered by SOGA.
Sadly no manufacturer or dealer has any obligation to cover repairs on a caravan for more than 6 years as that is written into legislation. Unless you have paid for repairs after 2015, you probably are not covered by CRA 2015. However it is up to your solicitor to tackle the issue as they will know more than any of us.

 

[longtailtit]

All brands are the same and have similar issues. We have had issues with Lunar, Bailey and Swift caravans in the past however they most were second hand caravans and covered by SOGA.
Sadly no manufacturer or dealer has any obligation to cover repairs on a caravan for more than 6 years as that is written into legislation. Unless you have paid for repairs after 2015, you probably are not covered by CRA 2015. However it is up to your solicitor to tackle the issue as they will know more than any of us.

A sad reflection on the caravan industry ........

 

[otherclive]

A sad reflection on the caravan industry ........

Unfortunately that’s been a theme for far too long.

 

[Beachball]

Well we have own Baileys and Swift never had any issues but had a Elddis and lucky it came with warranty because the toilet cassette door was warp and had to order a new one . and the front middle window but they replaced it for us . but i hope you can sort your issue out on your caravan

 

[Dustydog]

An absolute long shot for the OP.

Dominic Littlewood TV Consumer Champion got the caravan manufacturer involved.

As soon as Swift knew it was a TV Consumer programme their attitude changed. A brand new one was supplied to the complainant. Sadly the actual programme isn’t available

BBC One - Don't Get Done Get Dom, Series 7, Caravans

Dom comes to the aid of a couple whose caravan is suffering from damp problems.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ProfJohnL]

An absolute long shot for the OP.

Dominic Littlewood TV Consumer Champion got the caravan manufacturer involved.

As soon as Swift knew it was a TV Consumer programme their attitude changed. A brand new one was supplied to the complainant. Sadly the actual programme isn’t available

BBC One - Don't Get Done Get Dom, Series 7, Caravans

Dom comes to the aid of a couple whose caravan is suffering from damp problems.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am pleased for the caravanners involved in the television programme, but it makes me really mad that it seems to need the intervention of a high profile media programme before manufacturers are prepared to do the decent thing.

 

[Dustydog]

I am pleased for the caravanners involved in the television programme, but it makes me really mad that it seems to need the intervention of a high profile media programme before manufacturers are prepared to do the decent thing.

Better than any other tool we have 😉😎

 

[otherclive]

I am pleased for the caravanners involved in the television programme, but it makes me really mad that it seems to need the intervention of a high profile media programme before manufacturers are prepared to do the decent thing.

Unfortunately that's not a unique situation. Reading the weekend papers there are the Financial and Travel editors who most weeks intercede on someones behalf where things like insurance claims are rejected, or not answered, travel cancellations and no refund etc, banks failure to address issues and leading to loss etc etc. It's only when the newspaper journalist intercedes that things are made right. Generally with the bland statement that "we apologise that in this instance we failed to meet our expected high standards of performance" What load of "umbargo"