Elecsol battery problems / flickering lights

[brissle]

I have a Coachman VIP (2009) and bought an Elecsol 100Ah battery in July 2011.
The caravan is in a storage site with no electric hook-up so I have attached a small solar panel to keep the battery topped up (I checked with Elecsol and they said that there was no problem in doing this).

When the van is in store everything is switched off and the 12v Master Switch is in the OFF position.
The only current being drawn is for the alarm and Phantom Tracker - a miniscule amount according to Phantom.
That amount should be more than covered by the solar panel trickle charge.

I check the battery every six weeks and take it home to top up if it is showing any sign of discharge.
Last Januaryt the battery had failed completely and would not take a charge. I contacted the supplier and they told me to send the battery back for tests and they would replace it if it was found to be faulty. I sent it back at a carriage cost of around £20 and they did decide to replace it, but would not refund the carriage cost (so much for buying something heavy over the internet.....)

However the replacement does not appear to hold a full charge for very long and the solar panel seems to have no useful effect.
We are now away on holiday with mains hook-up and I am finding the the 12v lights flicker a lot and will dim if another light is switched on (especially the awning or bathroom light) or if the water pump operates.

I have had the van tested during service to check that there is no current being drawn from anywhere when everything is shut down and that the solar panel is supplying a trickle charge to the battery. The battery charger is also operating correctly when we have mains hook-up as far as I can tell.
I'm beginning to feel that an Elecsol battery isn't man enough for caravanning.

I would be gratefukl for any thoughts or advice. Do I just write off the £100 cost and get a "proper" battery?

 

[Sproket]

Has the 240v kettle plug come out from the back of the charger ?

From what you have just said I tend to think that you have a problem with you psu / charger ?

What size solar panel trickle charger have you got ?

 

[brissle]

Apologies if this reply appears twice - I forgot to log in before replying and trying to post the first time.

The solar panel battery charger is 4.8v.

I've had a look at the psu/charger - difficult to get at because it's mounted on a vertical board in the side locker under seat and there's no access from the back and very little underneath, with a mass of cables going in there. But I gently pulled each cable and none appear loose.

So I switched off the master switch on the psu and the slight hum went quiet. I then checked the battery condition and it's showing 12.6 - 12.7 volts (i.e. with the van NOT connected to 240v mains), so it must be receiving a charge surely? Otherwise the use of 12v equipment / lights over past 3 weeks would have finished the battery? Let alone several uses of the motor mover.....

Is there any way of identifying which cable is the one with the kettle plug on it? I assume that's the power input.

Thanks

 

[graham_somersham]

I hope your reference to 4.8V is a typo and should read 4.8W. Are you attaching directly to the battery with croc clips?

To be honest I have found the small PV panels to be a wast of time as you will be lucky to get much more than an one or two A/hr charge into the battery per day on average. The output quoted on the panels is the maximum and you rarely get anything like that by the time you have taken into account the resistance of the thin cables and a set of crocs. A larger panel with a decent MPPT regulator that has a battery type selector (differing voltages for different battery types) will be a lot more efficient and would also enable you to spend longer off ehu giving you more choice of caravan sites.

 

[Sproket]

You need to connect a multimeter to the battery take a reading & write it down, then switch the power ( ehu on ) and take a reading again, you should see about 13,5v to 13.8v when the battery is being charged.

Yes the kettle type plug is your power input.....

Am i right in thinking that your solar panel is 4.8amp & not 4.8v ?

 

[JTQ]

The solar panel might corrupt readings but if with that and the mains charger off you are seeing 12.6 to 12.7 volts after resting for about two hours then that indicates the battery is taking a charge. Conventionally that shows its above 90% charged [though this varies a little depending on subtle alloying in the lead.]
If you measure it with the mains hooked up and the PSU on you shoulds see it jump to something close to 13.8 volts. If it does then you dont need to hunt for the PSUs 'kettle plug' its is in and the charger is working.
Even if the battery 'takes a charge' it does not mean it will hold it, though if a month later its still standing at 12.6+ then its not shot.

 

[brissle]

Yes, sorry, silly typo - the solar charger is 4.8W.
It is connected via a plug to a socket on a trailing cable under the seat adjacent to the battery box. That cable is 'hard wired' into the connections on the battery terminals. This was done by my dealer during a caravan service and recommended as being a better electrical connection than using crocodile clips.
I have just disconnected the EHU and tested the battery with my multimeter - got a reading of 12.84 v.
Then I reconnected the ehu and the reading was 13.0 v
I will now leave the ehu disconnected for a while, until we go out at 7.30 and see what ther battery reading is then. We will not be using any lights - maybe the water pump occasionally and electric loo flush.
Thanks for all thoughts

 

[brissle]

- and after 2 hours disconnected from the ehu, the battery reading was 12.64 v

 

[JTQ]

Thinking this out:
The 12.64 volts is indicating that the battery is nearly at full charge. You could check if over a few days it remains there providing it is not required to power things; it should if it is really off load hold it for several weeks.
The 13.0 v when on mains needs looking at with caution. It is lower than needed for charging, however if the van's charger is a 'smar't one and has determined that the battery is 'full 'enough then shutting down to 13.0 is possible.
To check if this is the case; before going on mains put a few lights on for half an hour then put it back on mains and measure the voltage again. Doing this will have dragged the battery down enough for the charger to decide to switch itself in.
If the volts are not near 13.8 then I feel this indicates that either your meter or charger are faulty. Unlikely to be the meter as its clearly not under reading the unconnected battery.

 

[graham_somersham]

I wonder if there is a bocking diode on the panel. If not there is going to be a drain on the battery whenever the panel is not producing a charge. Most panels do have them but it might be worth checking to make sure.

 

[TD42]

Disconnect the battery, connect you meter to the caravan battery connections & switch on the EHU you should get a reading of 13.8 v DC. you will not get a proper reading from the battery until it has stood for around 6/12 hrs due to " float voltage"

 

[brissle]

Hi - apologies for delay in responding - WiFi problems at our campsite.

I did disconnect the battery and then re-connect ehu to check reading on battery cables/clamps.

The reading was 14.05 V. So I assume the charger is working fine.

Sorry I don't understand the reference to a "blocking diode" from Graham_S. Wouldn't know one if it bit me...!! How do I check that?

In case it helps the charger is a BCA dual stage 20 AMP charger with a label saying VIP/Laser/Pastiche - all coachman models (ours is a VIP).

Thanks

 

[JTQ]

The reading was 14.05 V. So I assume the charger is working fine.

Yes the charger is working fine and at that voltage its a "smart" one which stacks up with the 12.6 odd you saw when it had fully charged the battery.[ Dumb ones just sit there at 13.8 volts to minimise gassing. Yours going above 14 should have got the battery well up towards its optimum capacity, some like mine go further up to 14.4 ]
Now have you a problem left?
The blocking diode is used by the solar cell to stop it draining a bit from your battery during times of low or no light when the solar cell cant generate over 12.6ish volts. It could be very small physically and connected actually on the cell itself. As you have a meter you could check that there is one without the need to actually find it. With the meter in amps range [milli] fitted in series with one of its wires note that you get a reading when the solar cell is seeing bright light; then put a thick magazine over the cel to blank the light completely. You have diode if the reading goes to zero, you havent if it goes a few milli amps negative.

 

[brissle]

OK I solved the blocking diode matter by reading the solar panel box which states that a blocking diode is installed in the circuit.
So after all the advice provided - for which many thanks - I have now determined that the Elecsol battery is receiving a full charge and that the on-board charger is working properly. I won't know until we return the caravan to store (without ehu) whether the battery will hold it's charge for any decent period of time. Previous experience with this and the previous Elecsol battery is that this may be a problem.
I started this posting because we are suffering from 12 v lights which flicker and dim significantly when a third or fourth light is switched on (especially the awning and bathroom lights) or when the water pump operates. Even with only 2 lights on (the reading lights over the bed for example) one will flicker significantly and continuously- but not always (which to me rules out a problem with the cable connection or the bulb). I initially was inclined to blame this on poor performance of the Elecsol battery, after my previous experiences.
But it now appears that the battery is probably not to blame, so am left with the original problem / question.
What could be the cause of the flicker / dimming on a 12 v system with a 100 Ah battery?

Maybe it's just one of those things......

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Hi Guys .Im not a technical wizzard but I have followed this thread with interest and knowing Elecsol batteries to be of good quality perhaps it maybe a good idea to simply just connect up to car battery and see if the same problem is there.
I always have a car battery on stand by just in case.
Sir Roger

 

[Sproket]

I now think that you need a automotive-current-tester to find out what is going on with power flickering, they are simple to use & should point you in the direction of the problem.
As you turn items on you will see what amperage they are drawing, write it down for reference.
Try each circuit & individual items & watch what happens if the bulbs start to flicker.
If you have halogen lighting ? each bulb will be pulling 10w of power.

I converted my van to led lighting & when they are all on = 16w is all that they use.

This one reading 0.08 is one led light turned on using @ 1watt

The photo below showing 2.64A is about 35watts with the battery showng 13.8v

 

[kiaboy]

I started this posting because we are suffering from 12 v lights which flicker and dim significantly when a third or fourth light is switched on (especially the awning and bathroom lights) or when the water pump operates. Even with only 2 lights on (the reading lights over the bed for example) one will flicker significantly and continuously- but not always (which to me rules out a problem with the cable connection or the bulb). I initially was inclined to blame this on poor performance of the Elecsol battery, after my previous experiences.
But it now appears that the battery is probably not to blame, so am left with the original problem / question.
What could be the cause of the flicker / dimming on a 12 v system with a 100 Ah battery?

Maybe it's just one of those things......

I have a Pastiche 2010 model, I had the same problem with 12v lights flickering when more than 2 lights were on, (from new) it was the charger, after spending several weeks with the dealer they decided to get BCA out to my home I dealt with them directly and they fitted 6 units (all faulty) they provided me with an "Amara" charger (standard) and all was fine. They stated after they had carried out tests, it was a component within the circuit not at the correct settings (electrically), new replacement was provided, and been fine since. I also got a fan hum when many lights were on, this is normal, but I have since replaced all my internal roof lights and awning lights with LED's.

 

[joeby]

the link for automotive current tester that Sproketput on here , must be a real bargain judging by the one i saw on ebay for £92 , click on the link above surely no one is going to buy it , lol

 

[brissle]

OK guys - many thanks for all the suggestions and advice.
The automative tester idea is getting out of my depth - maybe something to ask of my dealer when then van next goes in for service.
Have been changing site for past 2 days and now have a 10 amp hook-up (and WiFi again) - flicker in the lights seems to be reduced but not eliminated.
I'll check out the idea of trying just a connection to car battery - will try that tomorrow when we have more time.
Then the next test will be to see how long the Elecsol battery retains a charge when the van is in store - but that won't be until end of July when we return home. If it doesn't last at least 6 weeks without ehu, I'll give up and return to a "proper" battery.
Thanks again.

 

[JTQ]

The Maplin's Automotive Tester featured by "Sprocket" is about as simple to use as it could be, it plugs into the fuse socket of the circuit you are investigating and the removed fuse is fitted in the tester's plug. In this configuration the circuit continues to function with the fuse protection and can be left doing so; you need then to press the switch on to get a reading and see how the current flows as you use various bits of that circuit.
Well worth having in your toy box. It is rated and measures up to 20 Amps in one hundredth of an amp steps and sorts itself out with reverse current flow.
I used to use it permanently fitted in my solar cell's output until I got and all singing & dancing panel.

 

[BigIan]

We had an Elecsol 110Ah battery fail to hold a charge from brand new so it can happen.
Returned it to the dealers and it was exchanged without quibble.

Ian

 

[BigIan]

We had an Elecsol 110Ah battery fail to hold a charge from brand new so it can happen.
Returned it to the dealers and it was exchanged without quibble.

Ian

 

[carper2]

I bought a new Elecsol 100 amph Battery last November. It started loser it's charge almost straight away, I thought oh no it's a duff battery. I recharged it and put it on the Van and turned off all the fuses, and it held its charge perfectly. I checked to see if everthing had been turned off and found the radio was on with no volume, turned it off and had no problem since.

Les

 

[HenryB1]

I bought an Elecsol at the begining of 2001 when I fitted a motor mover to our caravan. After just after 2 years it failed completely and was changed by the dealer. The replacement has now been on 3 vans. It has to do a lot of work manovering our van around the back of our house into its storage posotion and has just finished a week away with the grandchildren on a non electric site, supported by an 18w brief case solar charger, and it was showing well over half charge remaining at the end of the week and had sufficient grunt to operate our powertouch evolution when hitching up the van to move sites. If you do find that the battery is US when you get home get it changed by the supplying dealer under the warranty. Cheaper tha buying another battery that could also fail. When I had my van serviced at the begining of this year I was looking at batteries at my dealer as I cannot believe that my current one will go on indefinately. The leisure batteries they were selling stated they were guaranteed for 3 years but the small print said only 3 months if used on a caravan.