No it is definitely not being in full control of the vehicle as you are letting software in the car do the work. Please do not misunderstand my statement.
I was a bit sceptical about these at first but once I got used to them you realise the benefits They fasten securely and stay that way. It has not happened to me but I do know of numerous incidents where the pull on ones have failed either because hey were not on tight enough or due to gradual stretching of the cable and similar.
If the battery fails then I will have to call out Mayday but I would hope I would replace it before hat happens.
If the battery fails then I will have to call out Mayday but I would hope I would replace it before hat happens.
On my previous Jeep while driving the battery failed spectacularly due to an issue with the alternator and it came to a grinding stop half on and half off the road. At least no issue lifting it onto the flat bed.
As a matter of interest, if the vehicle's battery had failed while driving, would the electronic brake automatically lock on even if there was no 12v? If on a hill and the brake was not on how would you keep the vehicle stationary as no power to apply handbrake?
I think you will find that the throttle on most modern cars is purely an electronic device that instructs the software to action your demand for power to the engine. It is a fly by wire system . In 2015 a Jeep Cherokee was hacked slowing it to a crawl on a major highway. I dare say that most modern cars may be vulnerable to some form of hacking, so my EPB is the least of my worries.
For the sake of clarity here are the simple operation instructions for our two cars. Sam explained his system, not sure if he has two or three buttons. Once you get used to it I consider a brilliant fail safe system.
Clearly hand brake UnTurns are off the menu🤪🤪
The draw back may well be that it is not only Tesla that has stick on brakes with battery failure!
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/technology/driver-assist/braking.html
https://www.kceed.com/electronic_parking_brake_epb_description_and_operation-1264.html
Clearly hand brake UnTurns are off the menu🤪🤪
The draw back may well be that it is not only Tesla that has stick on brakes with battery failure!
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/technology/driver-assist/braking.html
https://www.kceed.com/electronic_parking_brake_epb_description_and_operation-1264.html
When I replaced my rear brake discs and pads on my Santa Fe, the procedure to bed in the brake shoes to the new drum internal of the discs, the procedure is to travel at 20 KPH, and then apply the electronic hand brake. It does slow the car down but a warning comes on and you have to turn off the ignition for it to reset.
On any car where the parking brake is operated by a set of brake shoes on a drum within the disk which operates the foot brake - the above procedure should be carried out occasionally to keep the drums clean as applying the parking brake once stationary doesn't clean up the drums.
Well over the last month or so the Electronic Parking Brake, EPB ( Santa Fe) has been playing up, Not releasing etc.
Yesterday, twice parked up put the EPB on and thought I had ran over a cat, by the sound of it engaging, Worked out the EPB module needs replacing, rang Hyundai, £1325. . £915 just for the module.
Well today I bought one from a supplier £302. 5 years warranty, Next day delivery, so that's my Saturday sorted out. Folk have said it is a pig of a job to do. Back to my double jointed Helicopter engineering hands.
Hopefully might get it finished before the England / Chile rugby match. The SA Ireland is a non starter really.
Yesterday, twice parked up put the EPB on and thought I had ran over a cat, by the sound of it engaging, Worked out the EPB module needs replacing, rang Hyundai, £1325. . £915 just for the module.
Well today I bought one from a supplier £302. 5 years warranty, Next day delivery, so that's my Saturday sorted out. Folk have said it is a pig of a job to do. Back to my double jointed Helicopter engineering hands.
Hopefully might get it finished before the England / Chile rugby match. The SA Ireland is a non starter really.
I have every confidence all major car manufacturers will have established that any of the vehicle control systems now managed through indirect systems including software are legal, and does not put the driver at risk of losing control of the vehicle becasue of the system.
The principal of Fly/Drive By Wire (F/DBW) has been widely allowed in the aircraft, and marine environments, and have proven to often be more reliable than the systems used before, and in some cases the the systems can improve safety by automatically acting if the operator fails to spot some problems.
One of the other benefits of F/DBW is it allows the designer much greater flexibility, improving usability of products.
The principal of Fly/Drive By Wire (F/DBW) has been widely allowed in the aircraft, and marine environments, and have proven to often be more reliable than the systems used before, and in some cases the the systems can improve safety by automatically acting if the operator fails to spot some problems.
One of the other benefits of F/DBW is it allows the designer much greater flexibility, improving usability of products.
The only thing there Prof is that aircraft engineers have to be certified - effectively licenced - before they can work on an aircraft. I would imaging it is similar for instance in nuclear powered naval vessels.
What is the chance of getting a certified engineer at your local /any dealership. None maybe?
What is the chance of getting a certified engineer at your local /any dealership. None maybe?
Aircraft often have duplicate or triplicate systems to guard against the inevitable failures - with the exception of dual circuit brakes cars simply don't duplicate anything.
It’s not just nuclear powered naval vessels. After completing Application Courses covering the range of marine systems in a warship, junior officers would then join an operational ship to acquire their “ tickets” to take charge of the various systems in the ship during watches or as the responsible officer for the maintenance and operation of that system or subsystems. . There would be a similar approach for Weapon Engineers and Seaman branches.
I didn't renew my licence this Year, valid for 5 years, 8 different helicopters and 6 different engines, thought no reason too need it again.
Then I got a message from a mate , got a 6 month contract for a UK licenced engineer in Saudi. " Sorry, mate, can't leave the wife and dog". Could have bought a new car and van after that. .
Shame plus the hassle of having to return it, especially with the amount of money involved. A bit late but can the oem module be repaired by some like Apuljack? They are very clever with electronics
Dusty Dog, yes there is a place that does repair them , but only a years warranty. I would rather get the new unit and get the 5year warranty.
The design and analysis of mission and safety critical aircraft systems was my field of expertise. The last platform I worked on before retiring was the A400M. The analysis and subsequent paperwork took more time than the actual hardware/software design. One analysis was know as Failure Mode and Effect Analysis (FMEA) - essentially what are the consequencies if things break. This was a considerable amount of work and to help out we took on an engineer from BMW because the car industry do similar analysis.
Where the two fields differ is in the acceptable levels of failure and resulting consequences. The aviation industry has much higher levels of reliability than the automotive industry. In the early days I asked one expert what determines an acceptable level of failure. Perhaps it was a somewhat cynical reply but in essence it was down to how much financial pain the companies can accept from a resulting incident. Fortunately I never had to set these levels of reliability, just work to them.
Aircraft systems have multiple ways of mitigating failures and although my knowledge of the automotive industry is lacking I don't see much in the way of mitigating factors in automobiles. My own personal experience concerns a car I had with electronic throttle control - no bowden cables like the good old days. It developed a fault in that it would occassionally cut out. This could have had disasterous results if pulling out in front of a truck on a roundabout for example, only to find the engine loses speed. No diagnostic code and no redundant backup.
One of the future concerns I have for more automation in cars is that its appearing to dumb down the skills of the driver. Air crew are highly trained to deal with emergencies resulting from failures. The average driver seems to be pushed towards have this fancy technology which they'll rely on and won't know what to do when it doesn't work properly.
In respect of MCAS. I followed the investigation as it became public knowledge. My initial reaction in the early days was how on earth did this system get certified when there was a single point of failure (AOA sensor) and no way the crew could know about it or even turn it off.
If you can find a documentary called Downfall it will tell you why and its mostly down to money.
When I did a 4x4 training course in the Forest of Dean they emphasised the risks involved in entering flooded areas. Also I joined Wessex 4x4 Response and had to attend lectures and pass an exam prior to being allowed to go operational. Again floods being the biggest risk factor.
We used to cross many flooded rivers that previously were bone dry. A rope around your waist and tied to the vehicle and then waded across using a stick to measure deep to see if it was safe for the vehicle to follow. Sometimes sat for 3 -4 days waiting to river level to drop. Rivers had either a sandy bed or stones so hard going slogging it across either way.
Well getting back to Electric Parking Brakes, and away from wading rivers in 4x4's.
The supplier of my wrong EPB Module wanted the Pno of the unit fitted, well after 4 hours yesterday afternoon, under the car, almost got the unit out, but the connector plug stumped me. So at 8pm, gave up, put rear wheels back on, rolled my motor bike, Mrs H's Chariot and the Santa Fe back into the garage.
This morning, after breakfast, gently removed the rear wheels again and looked at the connector, ping found the locking bit. 1/2 hour later unit removed.
Cup of coffee, and put the car back into drivable mode.
Now waiting for new module, but a bit disconcerting about have amber warnings for EPB and auto Parking brake. So minimal journeys, and hopefully all fixed by mid week. Thankfully Automatic gearbox so everything locks up in Park. But carrying two chocks Just in case.
The supplier of my wrong EPB Module wanted the Pno of the unit fitted, well after 4 hours yesterday afternoon, under the car, almost got the unit out, but the connector plug stumped me. So at 8pm, gave up, put rear wheels back on, rolled my motor bike, Mrs H's Chariot and the Santa Fe back into the garage.
This morning, after breakfast, gently removed the rear wheels again and looked at the connector, ping found the locking bit. 1/2 hour later unit removed.
Cup of coffee, and put the car back into drivable mode.
Now waiting for new module, but a bit disconcerting about have amber warnings for EPB and auto Parking brake. So minimal journeys, and hopefully all fixed by mid week. Thankfully Automatic gearbox so everything locks up in Park. But carrying two chocks Just in case.
My reference to the aircraft industry was not intended to spark a debate about servicing.
My intention was to point out that through the experience of the aircraft industry, and the advancement of modern control systems, such as Fly By Wire, the industry has access to a wealth of system designs that have explored many of the way to enhance system reliability and integrity. The primary difference is that the auto manufacturers will be able to apply economies of scale to the development of systems, and can probably produce systems with good reliability at a price and numbers the aircraft manufacturers could only dream about.
The reality is we have had many software driven systems in cars for several decades. and with the odd exceptions most are reliable or if they do fail they fail to a safe(r) mode.
Just some to mention:-
Engine performance maps
Gear Box control
Anti lock braking
Suspension
Stability Control Systems
Seat belts, Air bags,
Automatic Screen wipers
Automatic Head Lamps
Aurto dipping headlamps
Etc Etc
My intention was to point out that through the experience of the aircraft industry, and the advancement of modern control systems, such as Fly By Wire, the industry has access to a wealth of system designs that have explored many of the way to enhance system reliability and integrity. The primary difference is that the auto manufacturers will be able to apply economies of scale to the development of systems, and can probably produce systems with good reliability at a price and numbers the aircraft manufacturers could only dream about.
The reality is we have had many software driven systems in cars for several decades. and with the odd exceptions most are reliable or if they do fail they fail to a safe(r) mode.
Just some to mention:-
Engine performance maps
Gear Box control
Anti lock braking
Suspension
Stability Control Systems
Seat belts, Air bags,
Automatic Screen wipers
Automatic Head Lamps
Aurto dipping headlamps
Etc Etc
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