Electricity charges

[JTQ]

"No site owner is allowed to pass on the cost of installing meters etc"

That is simply not true; what they cant do is resell electricity above the utility's price but the meter and installation , certification cost etc go on the make up of the pitch fees along with all the other cost. If usage patterns force metering every one using the site will pay.

 

[Legsmaniac_374344731]

We must be above average then because I reckon we probably use somewhere between 20 and 30 units a day at this time of year. (A day being a 24 hour period.) We don't do awnings but we do leave an electric fire on in the caravan to keep it warm all day and all night, plugged into a thermostat socket to maintain 21 degrees. Selfish? No. My wife is disabled and the cold affects her joints so a warm caravan is important to her.

 

[Steve L]

That is exactly what I'm getting at Ian(swift), the issue or charging off top up cards or token meters that have a rate that is set way above what is normal.

JTQ, We use thermostatically controlled heaters and at the lowest setting in our awning and the awning is of winter quality. Even this morning I'm out here in my rugger shirt and jeans and its warm enough.

We kept a carefull eye on the electric used as our sister-in-law is on a pree payment meter and we didn't want to run her out of electric.

I quite agree that site owners must cover costs and am quite willing to pay for all the electric I use. If I used

 

[Surfer]

JTQ have long have you worked in the electric supply business as you seem to know a lot more than me. They can increase the cost of the pitch to cover the cost of installtion but cannot include it as part of the electric charge. They cannot even charge you a standing charge as the standing charge incorporates the maintenace of the distribution cables, agent commission and a host of other small charges like meter operator, data Collector and Data aggregator etc.

The owner is only allowed to charge you the price that they pay for electric which will be somewhere between 15p and 20p per unit and as a caravan would probably use between 6 and 9 units per 24 hours it hardly makes it worthwhile installing meters for evey pitch. This would mean paying an electric deposit on arrival and then when leaving getting your "change" which delays you leaving especially if there is a queue in front of you. the owner would need to verify the meter reading on arrival and when leavingso a lot of extra hassle for amounts of less than 50p for 2 nights.

 

[JTQ]

JTQ have long have you worked in the electric supply business as you seem to know a lot more than me. They can increase the cost of the pitch to cover the cost of installtion but cannot include it as part of the electric charge. They cannot even charge you a standing charge as the standing charge incorporates the maintenace of the distribution cables, agent commission and a host of other small charges like meter operator, data Collector and Data aggregator etc.

The owner is only allowed to charge you the price that they pay for electric which will be somewhere between 15p and 20p per unit and as a caravan would probably use between 6 and 9 units per 24 hours it hardly makes it worthwhile installing meters for evey pitch. This would mean paying an electric deposit on arrival and then when leaving getting your "change" which delays you leaving especially if there is a queue in front of you. the owner would need to verify the meter reading on arrival and when leavingso a lot of extra hassle for amounts of less than 50p for 2 nights.

Now what your saying is true:

"They can increase the cost of the pitch to cover the cost of installation but cannot include it as part of the electric charge."

Rather than you earlier statement :

"No site owner is allowed to pass on the cost of installing meters etc"

I was concerned you were misleading others into believing the cost could not be passed on, which is simply not true.

 

[Legsmaniac_374344731]

"..... charge you the price that they pay for electric which will be somewhere between 15p and 20p per unit ..... "

If that's what you're paying for electric, I'd change suppliers. Our electric is cheaper than that.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The regulations that govern the reselling of electricity are as you might expect complex and written in typical governmental control language.

Fortunately the Government and Ofgem have produces a summary document that give a fairly detailed account. The essence of the scheme is copied below:

Note! Maximum resale prices do not apply if you charge a

flat rate for electricity. For example, if the charge for the

electricity is included in the overall rental fee for the

accommodation or if a flat rate charge is quoted on top of the

rental (such as

 

[Steve L]

I think we can safely say that we understand the legalities of sub selling electricity.

But getting back on track to the original questions.

Who's infavor or against metered electric on touring pitches?

how much do you currently pay?

How can we establish that the unit price charged by the site is actually their purchase price for elecricity. For example, would they display the last bill for instance to prove the unit cost?

All valid points thta we haven't touched on yet.

My current site charges

 

[Ian341]

I for one think that this meter idea is stupid. Firstly the site will end up paying more because the meters cost a fortune. Our friends ended up paying

 

[Steve L]

Hi Ian.

Just breaking your 37 units down to a manageable appreciation, that would equate to 12 hours of full capacity usage of the average tourers appliances.

No body could use that much in a day under normal uasage.

Steve L.

 

[Steve L]

It looks like the site I'm on has done a Tony Blair(U turn).

They have published their 2009 charges sheet and guess what put a quid on each nightly fee, be it with or without electric.

While it is about 7% increase, at least you will know exactly what your night away costs.

Much more sensible to me, than investing in meters and all the baggage that comes with it in calibration costs, installation costs, training and certification of meter readers and any other stupid costs that evolve around health & safety.

So I wonder how many more sites will now abandon that crazy notion.

Steve L.

 

[Ian341]

Hi Steve,

I agree, I could not possibly go through 37 units in 1 day, but this is what the site charges for. So they are making a profit on electric which I was lead to believe is not allowed.

I am glad to hear that they have ditched the meter idea. It would work out stupid. OK if caravans had tumble dryers and 30 amp ovens etc. but really the only appliance that uses a huge amount of power is the truma heating....

Ian

 

[ERNEST_374391205]

Hi Steve,

I agree, I could not possibly go through 37 units in 1 day, but this is what the site charges for. So they are making a profit on electric which I was lead to believe is not allowed.

I am glad to hear that they have ditched the meter idea. It would work out stupid. OK if caravans had tumble dryers and 30 amp ovens etc. but really the only appliance that uses a huge amount of power is the truma heating....

Ian

IT MAKES me wonder what will happen when we get the first all electric caravan this year will they be banned from sites

 

[Colin_374329018]

I don't know if you are aware but a site is not allowed to make a profit from electricity. You are charged for a hook up - not the electricity. If all sites installed meters you could be certain you would not be paying for more than you use - what can be fairer than that? We charge

 

[Surfer]

Colin, I think that ahs been mentioned several time son thsi forum.

 

[Bernard2]

David, You say you rely on long stayers in winter to make a profit.I presume you do not allow anyone to stay more than 28 days! If you do you are putting at risk the Caravan Clubs exemption to planning regs.On the electricity debate,I bought a clever little gadget that allows me to enter my unit cost and then read off actual consumption and cost. Over new year we were on a c.l. in -7% and the 24 hour cost based on my home charge of 10.4p per unit averaged

 

[Colin_374329018]

David, You say you rely on long stayers in winter to make a profit.I presume you do not allow anyone to stay more than 28 days! If you do you are putting at risk the Caravan Clubs exemption to planning regs.On the electricity debate,I bought a clever little gadget that allows me to enter my unit cost and then read off actual consumption and cost. Over new year we were on a c.l. in -7% and the 24 hour cost based on my home charge of 10.4p per unit averaged

 

[RichardJ]

I don't know if you are aware but a site is not allowed to make a profit from electricity. You are charged for a hook up - not the electricity. If all sites installed meters you could be certain you would not be paying for more than you use - what can be fairer than that? We charge

 

[David.O]

Bernard and Colin

Re our long stay visitors. most go home once a month and put their vans into storage for the weekend. This overcomes the 28day problem. when the season starts again they will move to a local CC site leaving us to our CC members who visit, why I like our long stayers is it keeps a pitch occupied all week, We like others find we are turning away customers who want to stay several days because we are full with weekender's, this is a hazard of having a CL. Re our fees here we are not our own masters. We have a CC site not to far away run by volunteers and their fees dictate the amount we can charge. If we want to attract customers. I cost the electrical part of our fees at

 

[Surfer]

I think what Colin is trying to say is that the

 

[David.O]

Ian.

I agree with you ,but would you go to a hotel and say you do not want the electricity so expect a discount.We have this at our CL. To help with this we last year deducted

 

[xtrailman]

If i was running a cl and found the electric costs unaceptable, i would consider two actions.

1/ replace all cb with 5a, instead of 10a.

2/ maintain the summer site charges through out the year.

When we are on site the 10a internal breaker, or post breaker rating limits our useage.

Quite a few people i feel are using home appliances over rated for van usage.

At the start and finnish of our season, site trips are becoming more common.

Hence the reason i now use a 150w invertor, for the essential tv!

 

[Steve L]

Ray, I think the main reason for site electricity tripping out start and end of the season is down to creature comforts and weather. After all, we all like to be warm in the van and definately consume more hot drinks in the cold conditions.

People just forget to turn off the heating prior to putting the kettle on for instance. To stop this my heating for the awning (fan heater) is fitted with a remote contol switching device. I've also fitted the same to our 240 volt awning light. I can now switch on the awning light by remote control as we approach the van at night and can also turn on and off the fan heater from the comfort of the van, to facilitate the kettle going on. This niffty little gadget cost a respectable

 

[xtrailman]

Steve

Heaters in awnings?

Dont you have a green concience!

Fitting remote controls doesnt save electricity, only your legs.

My favorite site has reduced charges at the start and end of the year. This is when the site supply is overloaded and trips.

The system has been uprated once, but now people want to bring microwaves etc.

So the system needs uprating again.

Some of the older caravans have a 15amp cb fitted inside, so the post cb is loaded up to 10amp.

Older systems fitted to sites were not installed for the loads now being imposed.

 

[Steve L]

My main priority at this time of year ray is to prevent our water supply freezing up and if that necesitates errecting a porch awning around the barrels and plonking a 1kw heater in there then so be it.

As for the "lazy" remote control, I installed that to reduce the number of time the caravan door has to be opened to save the heating system having to work overtime to maintain my 20 deg C. So green thinking but trying to be practical is what I'd call it.

My old van was re-wired by me to providea "dual trip system" thus giving me the option to run the van at 16 amp or 10 amp max consumption, which reduced the occurances of the site post tripping befor the van system. My current 2005 van doesn't have that option yet!

Electricity is a luxury to me and as such I work within the capacity provided by the site (10 or 16 amp). I have in the past found site post trips where tourists have used elastic bands to prevent the site trip from cutting out so that theycan exceed the 16 amp supply. Not only naughty but down right dangerous as it could cause a fire. Also these descerning idiots also forget to remove the device thus putting others in danger.

Anyway, the original point of this thread was to let folks know that metering is on it's way and also to raise the issue of just how much per unit should we be paying or want to pay for electricity.

While sites do have to cover their costs which is appreciated by us all, there are some who do seem to be stacking the advantage cards a little too high in their favor.

Steve L.