Electricity charges

[Steve L]

I have come across an interesting dilema with electricity on site.

We have been used to paying a pitch fee and then a nightly electricity charge, or a van incl electric fee.

Now it seems meters are being installed. They are not as we know them at home but just a simple digit meter that shows the total amount used from the hook up. On our particular site I can not see any calibration certificate or electrical safety sticker on the hook up to verify its status.

Now there's an even trickier situation. The site do charge tourers by the night for a pitch incl electric. But also they have seasonal tourers on the same hook up's. These are going to be billed for their electric at the end of the season.

This end of season bill could be as high as the seasonal pitch it's self, which is not in the hundreds of pounds bracket, but above that.

There is also no mention yet on the pitch fes of just how much per unit the electricity is. But based on our winter usage at 12p per unit we use £4-30 per 24Hrs.

It looks on the face of it like metered electric is on it's way but has not yet found a properly managed way to work.

Regards

Steve L.

 

[paulus_374409736]

I didn't think they were allowed to resell electricity to you, i.e. charge you per unit used which is why you actually get charged for the 'use' of the electric supply equipment,invariably a single charge per night.

Maybe things have changed?

 

[David.O]

paulus.

A site owner is aloud to resell electricity but only at the rate it is supplied at. that is they cannot make a profit on its resale. This was brought in to combat landlords who charged tenants high prices for electricity used.

David from Suffolk

 

[ProfJohnL]

I believe that what David writes is correct. But as for having calibration of meters, I am not sure what the regulations require, However if there is an error in the meters accuracy, then you could get trading standards involved, under weights and measures legislation.

As for the actual charges, you must not forget that a caravan site is a commercial business, and as such it won't benefit from the same tariff that you get at home. So the unit charge will be different.

 

[Steve L]

Hi John.

I quite agree with you that as a business they have to be commecially viable. However, that does not mean that they have to join the ranks of the other utility suppliers and over charge for a service. It is possible for businesses to purchase block supply of utilities and as such the larger block you buy the cheaper the unit price is. It is not unusual to be able to save 10 to 20% this way.

As we all know it is very rare to find utility bills in decline, so my thoughts are that by leaving the billing to the end of season ie winter, the unit charge for the whole year would be based on probably the highest charge period of the year.

As for calibration, you are right to mention "weights & measures. They have set standards of weight, length and volume for all products sold in a measured fashion. So therefore any of the measuring devices used have to be kept in a known state of measurement and records kept to show regular inspection and calibration. For example, you perhaps once a year see a gang of blokes at your local garage putting petrol into jugs etc. They are checking that the petrol pump does deliver 5 litres of fuel and not 4.5 litres. If we didn't have that check and your garage decided to short change you by thta amount of volume but charge for the 5 litres of fuel, just imagine how much out of pocket you would be and how much free profit the garage would make.

Regards.

Steve L.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

You have raised an interesting point - frequency of billing. I do not know the legal answer, but it seems likely that the site should bill you or at least retain meter reading records that coincide with utility suppliers billing period, so the scale of charges for the individual caravan pitches can be charged at the same rate as the whole sites supply for the relevant period, otherwise you may have a case that you are being over charged for power for part of the year. If you are being overcharged then that is mater the electricity supply regulations may cover.

As for the actual charges, That depends on the contractual arrangements the site owners have with their supplier. As with any supplier, the site owner should display or make known their charges so the consumer can decide how to use the resource.

 

[David.O]

Steve

The cost of the electricity is only part of the costs involved, there are standing charges and vat. together with annual inspection charges and equipment maintenance. As for meter calibration our supplier replaces our meter every 10 years. I have never asked trading standards to check it is working properly, perhaps I should?. However we do monitor the overall usage on our CL, and because of the usage the CL has had over the past year we needed to cover the electrical costs hence our nightly fees have gone up by a

 

[ProfJohnL]

Steve

The cost of the electricity is only part of the costs involved, there are standing charges and vat. together with annual inspection charges and equipment maintenance. As for meter calibration our supplier replaces our meter every 10 years. I have never asked trading standards to check it is working properly, perhaps I should?. However we do monitor the overall usage on our CL, and because of the usage the CL has had over the past year we needed to cover the electrical costs hence our nightly fees have gone up by a

 

[Surfer]

David as you are well aware you cannot pass on annual inspection and maintenance charges onto the consumer. I am qute surprised that you are having these on an annual basis unless the supply is 3 phase. To the best of my knowledge Trading Standards are not involved with calibration because they simply do not have the resources. A

 

[David.O]

Ian

We can and do pass these costs on it is part of the other costs we in-cure plus of course Vat.

 

[Ianofwilts]

Working in the industry, electricity supply that is, I'm very interested in the comments so far. My understanding of the unit charge to a third part i.e. a caravan occupant is that they can be charged above the original utility companies unit rate to cover any infrastructure but there are tight guidlines / peramiters for these charges. With the average site supply restricted to 16 amps I would be very surprised if anybodies bill for a season would exceed the site fee. With a typical 100 amp single phase supply at home and four peaple using a 10 kilowatt (40 amp) shower for 1/2 hour a day we would far exceed any site usage and our annual bill is around

 

[david_374246190]

Working in the industry, electricity supply that is, I'm very interested in the comments so far. My understanding of the unit charge to a third part i.e. a caravan occupant is that they can be charged above the original utility companies unit rate to cover any infrastructure but there are tight guidlines / peramiters for these charges. With the average site supply restricted to 16 amps I would be very surprised if anybodies bill for a season would exceed the site fee. With a typical 100 amp single phase supply at home and four peaple using a 10 kilowatt (40 amp) shower for 1/2 hour a day we would far exceed any site usage and our annual bill is around

 

[Steve L]

Now then gentlemen.

I can understand David's concerns about covering costs. I can also see where Ian is comming from.

But as a full timer, I have had first hand experience of a years worth of caravanning.

Now as I've said before, I fully understand and accept that the site owners have to cover their costs. They can do this by either a fixed nightly charge or by using calibrated meters. You see, the meters do have to be calibrated as they are selling a measured unit to a paying customer. The periferal costs of mainainence/replacement and calibration can be built into the fixed pitch fee. That way the site owner would not have to explain away why the unit price is higher on resale.

As for using heaters in awnings, I use one to take the chill off and to keep me warm while tapping away on the key board.

I think that if you are paying for your elecric then it is upto you how you use it. I must admit that through the harshest winter for a decade, I was using

 

[Dustydog]

Steve

I hate add ons. One flat charge for me.

However if electricity has to be metered then only the amount used should be charged at the National agreed rates. If the Site Owner wants to recoup the EHU bollard cost then that should be included in the overall site fee , not the electricity charge.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[David.O]

Ian

I am for the simple life hence I am a farmer, electricity is a major cost to my operation so we are constantly looking at ways to reduce its usage on the farm. We have a monthly bill of

 

[Dustydog]

David

As a matter of interest how much electricity per pitch do you think was used in the height of the winter?

I assume you offer 16amp EHUs?

How do you feel about people leaving two fires on all day in the awning whilst out? I accept there are those who will willingly pay for this luxury but as a CL owner is this the type of usage you expected?

I stayed at a lovely site in Sutherland the other year and the EHUs were a meagre 6 amps. I wonder why?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[David.O]

David

As a matter of interest how much electricity per pitch do you think was used in the height of the winter?

I assume you offer 16amp EHUs?

How do you feel about people leaving two fires on all day in the awning whilst out? I accept there are those who will willingly pay for this luxury but as a CL owner is this the type of usage you expected?

I stayed at a lovely site in Sutherland the other year and the EHUs were a meagre 6 amps. I wonder why?

Cheers

Dustydog

Dustydog

Our EHU are 10 amp . I am afraid I cannot find the exact amount used I filed the data but fear it was through the shredder.if I recall for January we had 2 on site and if I recall I calculated so

 

[Steve L]

During winter as we are in the van 24/7, we have used two heaters. The one in the awning was on 1kw as this was enough to keep the inside of the awning frost free. By the way, we use a heavey weight awning designed for all year use and as such it is pretty well draft free. We managed most of the time in the van on 500w for the blown air heating, only occassionaly going to 1Kw. But I reckon we got through

 

[Ianofwilts]

I think this dilema is simple to sum up. There are those sites looking to enhance profits and those that just want to cover cost with perhaps a small margin. Those willing to pay will and those unwilling will look at alternatives or moan. The answer is simple There is no answer. We'll just have to see how this progresses, meters, no meters. Price will always sort things out in the long run.

 

[David_374413417]

electric IS getting a total rip off, most sites charge

 

[das545701]

electric IS getting a total rip off, most sites charge

 

[Steve L]

In reply to the last three contributers.

I am with you on subject of site owners covering their costs, after all they have to find the money to pay the electricity bill. As I pointed out in the leader to this thread, I calculated that in the depths of winter I was consuming