Electricity consumption monitors.

[Woodentop]

I did my apprenticeship with AEI and spent time in the lamp making division. There was a view even in those days that switching on a tubular fluorescent switching it off then back on again used far more electricity. That’s why offices tended to run them when the workers had left. In reality regular switching off and on was not recommended as in those days the ballast units could be problematic and expensive to replace. But as to using an hours worth of electricity each time that was never an issue. But like the old chestnut of stopping the car engine in traffic. Incandescent lights definitely don’t draw an hours worth of power each time you start one up.

We have a tumble drier but tend to use a dehumidifier in the bathroom to dry clothes. Works out much cheaper and we also obtain some useful warmth too.

And no it doesn’t stay in the bathroom when that room is being used for showers etc. In fact the bathroom has only been used less than half a dozen times in 2.5 years……..visitors.

Every lamp inside and external is LED. They have come on in leaps and bounds.

Leaving lights on in empty offices is nothing to do with laziness or whatever. Offices, business units, etc etc have peak demand meters and the charges are based on the peak demand. If the peak occurs during the day but drops at night you will still be paying on the peak rate so there is no point in turning things off as the peak has already been set.
It also has the advantage of improving security as there is nowhere to hide if all the lights are on!

 

[otherclive]

Leaving lights on in empty offices is nothing to do with laziness or whatever. Offices, business units, etc etc have peak demand meters and the charges are based on the peak demand. If the peak occurs during the day but drops at night you will still be paying on the peak rate so there is no point in turning things off as the peak has already been set.
It also has the advantage of improving security as there is nowhere to hide if all the lights are on!

I never said that leaving lights on in offices or workplaces was laziness. Other reasons may be for cleaning staff access and security rounds. Please don’t attribute inaccurate statements to me.

 

[Dustydog]

Back in the 80s we were told NOT to,turn off our computers or screens overnight. Allegedly because of power consumption at start up and potential non start up! Beyond me!

 

[otherclive]

Back in the 80s we were told NOT to,turn off our computers or screens overnight. Allegedly because of power consumption at start up and potential non start up! Beyond me!

Same here. But if as Woodentop says peak rate might be acquired earlier in the day and that rate then continues into the evening/ night it beggars the question wouldn’t it be cheaper to then turn lights off, as the business is paying peak rate unnecessarily.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Another take on the office lights story, in those days fluorescent tubes were surprisingly efficient compared the the equivalent power incandescent bulbs, but the cost of replacement was much higher. Not only were the ballasts prone to failure, but the starters also, and within the tubes the heaters at each end of the tube tended to have limited number of switch on cycles, which could be avoided if the units were left on. In many offices it was quite a job to replace the tubes.

Another way of dealing with this was to switch to high frequency control systems, which allowed the power(and light output level) to be reduced overnight, but avoided the need to use the heaters to bring the tubes to full brightness again.

The move to LED lighting certainly removes and argument - switch off at night.

 

[otherclive]

Another take on the office lights story, in those days fluorescent tubes were surprisingly efficient compared the the equivalent power incandescent bulbs, but the cost of replacement was much higher. Not only were the ballasts prone to failure, but the starters also, and within the tubes the heaters at each end of the tube tended to have limited number of switch on cycles, which could be avoided if the units were left on. In many offices it was quite a job to replace the tubes.

Another way of dealing with this was to switch to high frequency control systems, which allowed the power(and light output level) to be reduced overnight, but avoided the need to use the heaters to bring the tubes to full brightness again.

The move to LED lighting certainly removes and argument - switch off at night.

The last offices I worked in did not have led but fluorescent lamps but at night most were turned off except for a small number on permanently at night for safety. But all others were grouped such that movement detectors would switch on a group as you approached.

 

[Dustydog]

I recall reading somewhere, it costs more to raise the temperature of water to 70 degs rather than keeping it at that temperature constantly. Is that true?
We are currently changing our 12 year old plasma TVs , very power hungry, for the latest more efficient TVs.
Now looking at other factors to improve efficiency. Pensioners will take the brunt of the fuel increases as sadly most pensions are not keeping pace with the rises.

 

[Buckman]

I recall reading somewhere, it costs more to raise the temperature of water to 70 degs rather than keeping it at that temperature constantly. Is that true?
We are currently changing our 12 year old plasma TVs , very power hungry, for the latest more efficient TVs.
Now looking at other factors to improve efficiency. Pensioners will take the brunt of the fuel increases as sadly most pensions are not keep pace with the rises.

That is why you have a thermostat to switch it off and on. Recently we were on a meter pitch. If turning off the hot water and heating in the morning and then switching it back on in the evening, it made hardly any difference to consumption so never bothered with switching it off during the day.

 

[Hutch]

I recall reading somewhere, it costs more to raise the temperature of water to 70 degs rather than keeping it at that temperature constantly. Is that true?
We are currently changing our 12 year old plasma TVs , very power hungry, for the latest more efficient TVs.
Now looking at other factors to improve efficiency. Pensioners will take the brunt of the fuel increases as sadly most pensions are not keeping pace with the rises.

We run our house gas boiler at 55c and have the house normally at about 18c during the day, the sun come on the back of the house which heats it nicley, then at about 6pm We reset the thermostate to about 20c.
TV, cost 7 pence per hour to run, so states the remote monitor.

When out in the van we always just leave the water heater on, and heating set to about 15c. Then at night wind it up as required. I had to replace both heating elements after 6 years, A truma combi heater, don't know how many hours use.
Just worked it out, about 400 days, x 24 hours= 9600 hours. Not bad really I suppose.

 

[Buckman]

I think our air source boiler is the same however it is set to rise up to 65C once a week for a couple of hours to prevent legionnaires disease so we were told.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I recall reading somewhere, it costs more to raise the temperature of water to 70 degs rather than keeping it at that temperature constantly. Is that true?

The simple answer is YES and NO. The more detailed answer is it depends on the circumstances which are all variables.

But in practice it is almost always more cost effective to stop heating water to maintain its temperature if its being stored for more than a few minuets and used infrequently. The downside of turning off the heater is the length of time it takes to reheat the water to the desired temperature, which is more of an inconvenience than having it ready at hand.

Few of us mind waiting for a couple of minuets for a kettle to boil to make a hot drink, but if you had to wait twenty minuets to be able to wash your hands under warm water, that could be a considerable inconvenience. (edit) But in a cafe they might need boiling water every few minuets, so keeping it on makes more sense.

If you are working with space heating, you are generally looking for a near constant temperature control, so having a thermostat which automatically cycles to maintain a temperature is a desirable benefit, other wise it might be like having to stoke a fire where it required you to actively do something to restore the heating effect.

Generally there is a correlation between frequency with spread of use and the heat input capacity to volume of water to be heated as to where its more convenient to keep a system on line or whether to use it on demand.

So if you use it infrequently ( like a kettle or cooker) its definitely more effective to heat on demand, if something is on long term duty (like central heating) its far more convenient to keep it on long term.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Prof👏 Good reliable response👍👍

 

[RogerL]

I recall reading somewhere, it costs more to raise the temperature of water to 70 degs rather than keeping it at that temperature constantly. Is that true?
We are currently changing our 12 year old plasma TVs , very power hungry, for the latest more efficient TVs.
Now looking at other factors to improve efficiency. Pensioners will take the brunt of the fuel increases as sadly most pensions are not keeping pace with the rises.

In theory, the rises in energy costs will be reflected in inflation indexes and state pensions go up by at least the inflation rate.

 

[Ern]

Fridge has very low consumption I think on average of 210kwh annually. Washing machine is A rated.

Buy a cheap energy monitor which plugs into a 13A socket (Screwfix or whatever). Plug your fridge into an energy monitor for 10 days and find out. Some years ago, I did this and found out our fridge/freezer was consuming much more than it should. We replaced it and it paid for itself. Plug your washing machine into the monitor for a couple of weeks, and see what you think. A washing machine can consume a lot of energy if the operator is wasteful - it may be difficult to accept this but true!

 

[Buckman]

Buy a cheap energy monitor which plugs into a 13A socket (Screwfix or whatever). Plug your fridge into an energy monitor for 10 days and find out. Some years ago, I did this and found out our fridge/freezer was consuming much more than it should. We replaced it and it paid for itself. Plug your washing machine into the monitor for a couple of weeks, and see what you think. A washing machine can consume a lot of energy if the operator is wasteful - it may be difficult to accept this but true!

Fridge is correct. Washing machines, tumble driers cookers, microwaves, bread machines, air fryers etc will never be economical to run so no point in monitoring them.

 

[otherclive]

Fridge is correct. Washing machines, tumble driers cookers, microwaves, bread machines, air fryers etc will never be economical to run so no point in monitoring them.

Surely microwave, bread machine or air fryer is more economical than using the oven or hob, if its doing the equivalent job.

 

[Buckman]

Surely microwave, bread machine or air fryer is more economical than using the oven or hob, if its doing the equivalent job.

Maybe you misunderstood. I never compared their usage. What I was trying to say is that those types of units will always use a lot more electric which has to come from somewhere. Maybe we should go back to cooking fires as after all millions of people around the world still use an open cooking fire to cook their meals.

For instance, you really have no choice when it comes to washing clothes and in the winter not much of a choice in drying them as you need the tumble drier. We still have an old fashioned vented one which we are thinking of changing for one that uses a heat pump. However then you have the issue of disposing the old tumble drier which is still in good working order.

Washing machine has one of the highest A ratings for a washing machine. The dishwasher was rated A++ in 2015 but I believe that the ratings have changed since however we only use it about once a week so no point in trying to find another that is A+ rated.

 

[otherclive]

Maybe you misunderstood. I never compared their usage. What I was trying to say is that those types of units will always use a lot more electric which has to come from somewhere. Maybe we should go back to cooking fires as after all millions of people around the world still use an open cooking fire to cook their meals.

For instance, you really have no choice when it comes to washing clothes and in the winter not much of a choice in drying them as you need the tumble drier. We still have an old fashioned vented one which we are thinking of changing for one that uses a heat pump. However then you have the issue of disposing the old tumble drier which is still in good working order.

Washing machine has one of the highest A ratings for a washing machine. The dishwasher was rated A++ in 2015 but I believe that the ratings have changed since however we only use it about once a week so no point in trying to find another that is A+ rated.

If the tumble dryer is in working condition charity like Britsh Heart Foundation, Age Uk, local hospice, etc will often collect, Many local councils have links to charities that support families on low incomes or setting up a home from homelessness. The charity's will use a qualified electrician to check safety. When we moved into this house the kitchen had Miele dishwasher which was in working condition, but we aren't fans of dishwashers so we gave it away on the Trash Nothing website. Its amazing what can be given away on TrashNothing, Freecycle etc. We even have a "rag and bone' truck come around on refuse collection days but he doesn't take fridges due to the need to dispose of the refrigerants.

 

[Buckman]

If the tumble dryer is in working condition charity like Britsh Heart Foundation, Age Uk, local hospice, etc will often collect, Many local councils have links to charities that support families on low incomes or setting up a home from homelessness. The charity's will use a qualified electrician to check safety. When we moved into this house the kitchen had Miele dishwasher which was in working condition, but we aren't fans of dishwashers so we gave it away on the Trash Nothing website. Its amazing what can be given away on TrashNothing, Freecycle etc. We even have a "rag and bone' truck come around on refuse collection days but he doesn't take fridges due to the need to dispose of the refrigerants.

My apologies as I was generalising about replacing unit and then having a good working unit that needs to be dumped. I put it across incorrectly as in this case, the tumble drier will go to the daughter when they arrive in the UK.
Over the years we have accumulated many electrical items that are now outdated and of no use. No one wants them now because many charities got dumped with loads of stuff during or just after the lockdown periods. In 2019 I tried to get rid of a video camera and a couple of other electrical items and advertised it on Freecycle. The items are in very good condition and have the instruction manuals. No takers.
We have a George Foreman bought two or three years ago, but now have the air fryer so GF will hardly be used, but reluctant to get rid of it as handy if cooking for one person.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think if you look at the way technology has advanced, many of the items I still like to use have been superseded, rendering things like video recorders, cassette recorders and even CD's no longer saleable , and smart phones and streaming media on demand seem to have taken over. So many charity shops no refuse to take such items. There is also the problem of ensuring electrical goods are safe and compliant with regulations.

There are generations now who consider ear buds to be the epitome of good sound, most have never heard the full majesty of listening to music through a decent HiFi system.

Oh for the good old days of 12inch Vinyl, cleaned with carbon fibre brush, and clumps of dust on eyewateringly expensive Van Du Hull elliptical diamonds.........

 

[otherclive]

I think if you look at the way technology has advanced, many of the items I still like to use have been superseded, rendering things like video recorders, cassette recorders and even CD's no longer saleable , and smart phones and streaming media on demand seem to have taken over. So many charity shops no refuse to take such items. There is also the problem of ensuring electrical goods are safe and compliant with regulations.

There are generations now who consider ear buds to be the epitome of good sound, most have never heard the full majesty of listening to music through a decent HiFi system.

Oh for the good old days of 12inch Vinyl, cleaned with carbon fibre brush, and clumps of dust on eyewateringly expensive Van Du Hull elliptical diamonds.........

When my father installed our first home hifi an elderly maiden aunt was staying with us. She tended to drop off to sleep after a meal, so we put some music on and we retired to the front lounge. After a short while she came rushing in to us claiming the paraffin heater had sprung a leak. Upon investigation the valor heater was fine, what she had heard was the sound of a bubbling stream on the hifi.

 

[Buckman]

I think if you look at the way technology has advanced, many of the items I still like to use have been superseded, rendering things like video recorders, cassette recorders and even CD's no longer saleable , and smart phones and streaming media on demand seem to have taken over. So many charity shops no refuse to take such items. There is also the problem of ensuring electrical goods are safe and compliant with regulations.

There are generations now who consider ear buds to be the epitome of good sound, most have never heard the full majesty of listening to music through a decent HiFi system.

Oh for the good old days of 12inch Vinyl, cleaned with carbon fibre brush, and clumps of dust on eyewateringly expensive Van Du Hull elliptical diamonds.........

It just seems such a shame that you either have the item clogging up space in a wardrobe never to see daylight or chucking a perfectly good working item on the local dump. Remember the good old days when you only chucked something on the dump when it was broken and could not be fixed?

Just my personal opinion, but I always thought that the music on a vinyl was far better than on a CD and I am not a HiFi or sound fanatic. I just enjoy it.
I am now of the age where I suffer from excessive ear wax so ear bud headphones are not good for me, but proper over ear padded and comfortable headphones with their own adjustable sound are brilliant.

 

[otherclive]

It just seems such a shame that you either have the item clogging up space in a wardrobe never to see daylight or chucking a perfectly good working item on the local dump. Remember the good old days when you only chucked something on the dump when it was broken and could not be fixed?

Just my personal opinion, but I always thought that the music on a vinyl was far better than on a CD and I am not a HiFi or sound fanatic. I just enjoy it.
I am now of the age where I suffer from excessive ear wax so ear bud headphones are not good for me, but proper over ear padded and comfortable headphones with their own adjustable sound are brilliant.

Our son donated us his Bose sound cancelling headphones. They are great as I can watch tv whilst my wife uses them fir watching stuff on the IPad. Or I can read whilst she watches tv. Great too to silence a couple of Trents.

 

[Buckman]

Our son donated us his Bose sound cancelling headphones. They are great as I can watch tv whilst my wife uses them fir watching stuff on the IPad. Or I can read whilst she watches tv. Great too to silence a couple of Trents.

At present I am looking around for a set of over ear Bluetooth headphones as cannot use earphone connection on TV. I have Sony over ear headphones, but they need th transmitter toi be plugged into an earphone socket which then cut sout the sound al together. Need BT earphones so I can listen at one volume and OH can watch TV at a lower sound level.

 

[ProfJohnL]

One of the benefits of the IR headphone system is that 1 transmitter can be picked up by several headsets, and each person can set their own preferred sound level. I have 3 sets if Sony IR units.

I'm not fully up to date with Blue Tooth technology, but the ones I have seen will only link one to one so can't be shared.

You could try to find another set of IR headphones.

Alternatively most modern TV's or even older ones with Scart connections output the sound at a line level, which with the right adaptors can be extracted and could be used to feed the IR transmitter independent of the TV's volume.

for example

Valueline Switchable SCART Male to 3x RCA Female AV Adapter - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders. Buy Valueline Switchable SCART Male to 3x RCA Female AV Adapter - Black at Amazon UK.

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