Electricity cost in UK

[Dustydog]

It was reported yesterday UK electricity is now about 50pc more expensive than in Germany and France, and four times as expensive as in the US.
I wonder if this is having an adverse effect on EV sales?

Saudi have recently reduced oil prices which we are now enjoying at the pumps.


I am surprised at the cost disparity . I have no wish to reopen the EV debate please but am interested why the U.K. is out of sink on power prices? I think I know the answer, too much tinkering with methods of generation over the last 30 years! .??

 

[Buckman]

I am surprised at the cost disparity . I have no wish to reopen the EV debate please but am interested why the U.K. is out of sink on power prices? I think I know the answer, too much tinkering with methods of generation over the last 30 years! .??

Quite simple actually too many cogs in the wheel and too many chiefs. For example for a meter reading there are three different parties involved. The meter reader, the data collector and the data aggregator. Then of course in the background you also have the meter operator.

The distribution company needs to make a profit, the national grid needs to make a profit, the supplier needs to make a profit to pay commissions to sales people and of course all the previously mentioned. If I remember correctly there are neatrly 12 different parties involved in the distribution of one kilowatt of electric and they all take a cut.

The other countries with lower charges, is their electric nationalised or do they have a similar structure to the UK with several or more suppliers?

 

[Mr Plodd]

My view is that there are a number of factors.
Primarily lack of foresight by ALL governments in regards to future power generation. France invested heavily in Nuclear, the UK didn't. The reasons being wide and varied. The French attitude to development is much more Govt orientated. Take their roads and railways. "We need a high speed railway between here and there, that's the best route, start next week" The same with roads and power generation. Look howxquickly tge magnificent bridge was built at Milleau.
The UK has very complex planning regulations and almost anyone can, and does, put forward all sorts of arguments against just about anything. So you an appeals process, very time consuming, and appeal to the Sec state, very time consuming, a judicial review, very time consuming. So a lot of the time the plans just get shelved withdrawn or the costs don't justify the battle.
Then you have the green lobby, who seem to oppose just about everything if its not deep "green" The UK has huge coal reserves which make electricity generation pretty cheap, but all the mines are now shut, and the last coal fired power station was "switched off" last Monday
We have had, and still have, Govts committed to a ridiculous time scale to "decarbonise" our entire power industry. So huge subsidies are being paid to solar farm developers and wind turbines companies, most of who are foreign owned, so the profits and dividends don't benefit tge UK population. All of those subsidies are lumped on energy bills (and the subsidy then has VAT added to the consumers end)
The Germans have switched off their nuclear power stations BUT are now using coal again from beyond vast open cast coal mines.
The Americans have access to vast amounts of oil and gas on home soli. The UK has oil and gas under the North Sea, but the Govt refuses licences to develop any new sources, and taxes very heavily the existing ones, those taxes are ultimately paid by the consumer (with VAT added as a final insult)
The UK has shale gas, the Govt won't permit its extraction., instead we ship kn vast amounts of wood from Canada to burn at Drax to produce electricity. Difficult to see how that can be viewed as contributing to "decarbnisation" let alone on financial cost!
But if theme isn't there?

It is a highly complex subject, and I am sure others will agree/disagree with some of my points, but I think the biggest "issue" is many years of zero foresight and reluctance to invest, be that private or public money.

Hinckley C is, I believe, being (almost) entirely financed by sources outside of the UK, and they wil expect a healthy return on their capital, and that will have to be paid by the UK consumers.

As for how to reduce our costs, I really don't think we can now!! So invest in rooftop solar panels and battery storage. That's what I have done, but the payback period is not short, but as energy prices increase the savings do tge same, so tge payback period reduces.
Stay warm everyone, and if you have an elderly neighbour, please keep an eye out for them over the winter won't you?

 

[otherclive]

It was reported yesterday UK electricity is now about 50pc more expensive than in Germany and France, and four times as expensive as in the US.
I wonder if this is having an adverse effect on EV sales?

Saudi have recently reduced oil prices which we are now enjoying at the pumps.


I am surprised at the cost disparity . I have no wish to reopen the EV debate please but am interested why the U.K. is out of sink on power prices? I think I know the answer, too much tinkering with methods of generation over the last 30 years! .??

The Saudis have lost market share in trying to keep prices at $100 dollars a barrel which their budget plans need. It now looks as if they are set to increase output yet further from 1 December. We should feel the benefits by around Easter 😱

It’s necessary to examine the markets in Germany before any conclusions have been reached. But for many years our energy prices were amongst the lowest in Europe. The US being totally different. I suspect ours have something to do with the contracts given to renewables companies where inducements were offered, plus payment for non generation when there is surplus. Tying electricity to oil price doesn’t do us any favours so hopefully as more renewables come on line there should be an opportunity to detach electric from oil and gas prices. The shambles which embraces our inability to construct new nuclear and the price given to EDF for HPC will not help financially although will improve robustness of the system.

Overall a lack of strategic planning over two decades for energy supplies and infrastructure. Just look at our pitifully low gas reserve capacity. Days not weeks or months as in some countries.Then we are importing large quantities of US and Gulf liquefied gas and that’s not cheap. The good citizens of Hampshire stopped a new France UK interconnection line too!

EV sales are dropping elsewhere too.. But nuff said.

SMARD | Electricity market in transition - this is how electricity market 2.0 works

www.smard.de

 

[Buckman]

My view is that there are a number of factors.
Primarily lack of foresight by ALL governments in regards to future power generation. France invested heavily in Nuclear, the UK didn't. The reasons being wide and varied. The French attitude to development is much more Govt orientated. Take their roads and railways. "We need a high speed railway between here and there, that's the best route, start next week" The same with roads and power generation. Look howxquickly tge magnificent bridge was built at Milleau.
The UK has very complex planning regulations and almost anyone can, and does, put forward all sorts of arguments against just about anything. So you an appeals process, very time consuming, and appeal to the Sec state, very time consuming, a judicial review, very time consuming. So a lot of the time the plans just get shelved withdrawn or the costs don't justify the battle.
Then you have the green lobby, who seem to oppose just about everything if its not deep "green" The UK has huge coal reserves which make electricity generation pretty cheap, but all the mines are now shut, and the last coal fired power station was "switched off" last Monday
We have had, and still have, Govts committed to a ridiculous time scale to "decarbonise" our entire power industry. So huge subsidies are being paid to solar farm developers and wind turbines companies, most of who are foreign owned, so the profits and dividends don't benefit tge UK population. All of those subsidies are lumped on energy bills (and the subsidy then has VAT added to the consumers end)
The Germans have switched off their nuclear power stations BUT are now using coal again from beyond vast open cast coal mines.
The Americans have access to vast amounts of oil and gas on home soli. The UK has oil and gas under the North Sea, but the Govt refuses licences to develop any new sources, and taxes very heavily the existing ones, those taxes are ultimately paid by the consumer (with VAT added as a final insult)
The UK has shale gas, the Govt won't permit its extraction., instead we ship kn vast amounts of wood from Canada to burn at Drax to produce electricity. Difficult to see how that can be viewed as contributing to "decarbnisation" let alone on financial cost!
But if theme isn't there?

It is a highly complex subject, and I am sure others will agree/disagree with some of my points, but I think the biggest "issue" is many years of zero foresight and reluctance to invest, be that private or public money.

Hinckley C is, I believe, being (almost) entirely financed by sources outside of the UK, and they wil expect a healthy return on their capital, and that will have to be paid by the UK consumers.

As for how to reduce our costs, I really don't think we can now!! So invest in rooftop solar panels and battery storage. That's what I have done, but the payback period is not short, but as energy prices increase the savings do tge same, so tge payback period reduces.
Stay warm everyone, and if you have an elderly neighbour, please keep an eye out for them over the winter won't you?

If the basic price is high, then the govt of the day rakes more in via taxes like duty and VAT so they need to keep everything artificially high.

 

[Bluetonic]

Our system is broken, from what I understand, we pay energy prices at the highest price for the day, so even if it cost 20 times less to produce from wind vs coal on any day, they all get the same price.
Madness

 

[GUMPY]

When it's windy my electric price goes negative as the company pay people to use it rather than shutting off the turbines.
Five hours last night 12.5kWh used and they paid me 5.4p
Looks like Sunday will be similar.
The joys of a time of use tariff.😎

The average electricity price is fixed by the cost of gas, the cost of production using other sources is not counted. Gas recently has gone up on price having been steady for much of the last year, I see the cost daily as I am on a tracker tariff that changes every day and is cheaper than fixed or flexible.
The gas tie needs to be broken so that wind and solar can be sold at what they cost allowing cheaper electricity.
I would like to see much more solar and wind power and an enlargement of the National Grid which will reduce the cost of Electricity.

 

[Oscarmax]

When it's windy my electric price goes negative as the company pay people to use it rather than shutting off the turbines.
Five hours last night 12.5kWh used and they paid me 5.4p
Looks like Sunday will be similar.
The joys of a time of use tariff.😎

The average electricity price is fixed by the cost of gas, the cost of production using other sources is not counted. Gas recently has gone up on price having been steady for much of the last year, I see the cost daily as I am on a tracker tariff that changes every day and is cheaper than fixed or flexible.
The gas tie needs to be broken so that wind and solar can be sold at what they cost allowing cheaper electricity.
I would like to see much more solar and wind power and an enlargement of the National Grid which will reduce the cost of Electricity.

I take it like us you are Octopus Agile