Electricity cost in UK

[Sam Vimes]

Hopefully as more battery storage comes on line the constraint payments may reduce. 🤞

The problem Scotland has is that for reasons I wont go into Wind Farms are proliferating more and more when the local demand has already been exceeded. The West Coast feeder does export some down south but it had a checkered history of reliablity. I've not heard anything about it for a while. There are now plans for East Coast feeders and hopefully they will be more reliable.

So, maybe in the future the constraint payments will go down but I doubt the bills will. Wind Farm prices per KWh are just the same as conventional generation prices.

 

[GUMPY]

I believe that's why Octopus have negative pricing to encourage use at times of surplus and reduce constraint payments.
They also give free electricity away to areas where the generators are in times of surplus.

 

[otherclive]

The problem Scotland has is that for reasons I wont go into Wind Farms are proliferating more and more when the local demand has already been exceeded. The West Coast feeder does export some down south but it had a checkered history of reliablity. I've not heard anything about it for a while. There are now plans for East Coast feeders and hopefully they will be more reliable.

So, maybe in the future the constraint payments will go down but I doubt the bills will. Wind Farm prices per KWh are just the same as conventional generation prices.

There are supposedly east coast feeders planned which will be a big improvement in the distribution from source to consumers.

Electrical 'superhighway' between Scotland and England approved

The multi-billion pound link will allow Scottish renewable energy to be sent to consumers south of the border.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am debating whether to get a solar system with home battery, but as a few others have declared being above the pension age and with medical concerns with uncertain prognosis, it's not clear whether it would be a sensible investment for me. There are two concerns, firstly I may not live long enough to see the investment pay back, and secondly, I may need to move house, and I wouldn't be able to take the sytem with me, and from what I have been told by a couple of estate agents the added value of a solar PV to a property does not offset the cost of its installation.

But there is an alternative. and its one I am considering. I know of one company and I'm sure there are or will be others that are effectively allowing its customers to invest in a share of a solar array or wind generator, and the net profit from the sale of the generated energy is distributed amongst the shareholders as a reduction on their electricity bills. This way if you move, the benefit moves with you.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I believe that's why Octopus have negative pricing to encourage use at times of surplus and reduce constraint payments.
They also give free electricity away to areas where the generators are in times of surplus.

There are a number of schemes like this but they rely on having a Smart Meter and one that works. Not everyone can get one because their area is not covered by the network.

According to a report I read recently the estimate was that there are over 50m homes but only 30m or so have smart meters and many of them don't work.

 

[GUMPY]

But there is an alternative. and its one I am considering. I know of one company and I'm sure there are or will be others that are effectively allowing its customers to invest in a share of a solar array or wind generator, and the net profit from the sale of the generated energy is distributed amongst the shareholders as a reduction on their electricity bills. This way if you move, the benefit moves with you.

Ripple Energy is one company doing this unfortunately not covering my area.

As for moving a Solar Array it's easy enough all that is needed is a suitable roof at the new location and aG98 application to the DNO for connection.

 

[otherclive]

I believe that's why Octopus have negative pricing to encourage use at times of surplus and reduce constraint payments.
They also give free electricity away to areas where the generators are in times of surplus.

We are with BG and for a goodly part of the year they have given half price electricity in a Sunday from mid morning to mid afternoon. Also there are periods when they contact us asking us to reduce consumption for a short while. Generally early evening when they must be predicting higher load. That’s only given us pence in savings as it occurs around supper time when our electric devices are a couple of LED lamps and the fridge freezer. So we make no effort to respond.

 

[Beachball]

I believe that's why Octopus have negative pricing to encourage use at times of surplus and reduce constraint payments.
They also give free electricity away to areas where the generators are in times of surplus.

Just got a 15M Fixed deal with Octopus having £800 in credit our direct debit is £ 100 per month and they also giving us some free electric as well.

 

[GUMPY]

We are with BG and for a goodly part of the year they have given half price electricity in a Sunday from mid morning to mid afternoon. Also there are periods when they contact us asking us to reduce consumption for a short while. Generally early evening when they must be predicting higher load. That’s only given us pence in savings as it occurs around supper time when our electric devices are a couple of LED lamps and the fridge freezer. So we make no effort to respond.

Octopus were paying £4 kWh during Savings Sessions last year that's on top of the 15p export. As well as reducing your consumption you were allowed to Export as well, I was dumping as much of my battery as I could during the session.

 

[Gafferbill]

It will take me 15.46 years to break even on my original cash outlay.
It takes no account of cleaning costs or replacement of worn out panels.

........and for 15.46 years you could have invested the outlay in a tax free cash ISA and seen a return to put towards your energy costs.
Capital retained.

 

[GUMPY]

In 15.46 years there is a high chance I'll be dead so won't care what capital I have or haven't got.
Meanwhile my solar would have gained me well over double what a cash ISA would have done.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ripple Energy is one company doing this unfortunately not covering my area.

Really?

I'm not aware hat Ripple has any mainland UK limitations (perhaps I'm wrong?) The only limitation that i'm aware of for Ripple, is you have to have your energy supplied by one of the many UK suppliers they have negotiated the scheme with.

You might need to change your supplier to be able to take advantage of the Ripple scheme.

 

[GUMPY]

Really?

I'm not aware hat Ripple has any mainland UK limitations (perhaps I'm wrong?) The only limitation that i'm aware of for Ripple, is you have to have your energy supplied by one of the many UK suppliers they have negotiated the scheme with.

You might need to change your supplier to be able to take advantage of the Ripple scheme.

Just re-looked at this and they have indeed broadened their reach. Or maybe I was thinking of another company, it was a while ago that I last looked at wind farm investment.

 

[Sam Vimes]

As for moving a Solar Array it's easy enough all that is needed is a suitable roof at the new location and aG98 application to the DNO for connection.

I don't think you'll find its as easy as that.

If you sell your house and want to take the panels with you, then in no particular order:-

You'll have to get agreement from the buyer and put it in the contract.
Then get someone to remove the panels and make good the roof.
Timing could be tricky because you'll need to do it before you move out and your buyer may well pull out at the last minute and the chain if it exists breaks.
You'll need to find a house or whatever that can take the panels.
This may involve a survey and planning permission.
You'll need to get someone to install and commission them.

 

[GUMPY]

I don't think you'll find its as easy as that.

If you sell your house and want to take the panels with you, then in no particular order:-

You'll have to get agreement from the buyer and put it in the contract.
Then get someone to remove the panels and make good the roof.
Timing could be tricky because you'll need to do it before you move out and your buyer may well pull out at the last minute and the chain if it exists breaks.
You'll need to find a house or whatever that can take the panels.
This may involve a survey and planning permission.
You'll need to get someone to install and commission them.

None of that is a problem, I wouldn't buy a house that couldn't take solar PV, removal and install could be done by the original fitter.

To be honest I probably wouldn't bother as it will, down here, increase the value of the house by it's original cost just as the new kitchen and bathrooms have.

The Solar Thermal I have I wouldn't attempt to get moved far to high above ground😲

 

[Oscarmax]

As stated before 2024 has not been a good solar year, however over the last 12 month period with our solar/battery set up £ 9,500 as regards electricity we are breaking as regard import and export including standing charges, at present we are for both gas and electric we are £690.44 in credit and pay £50 a month all in.

All the above includes charging up our Suzuki Across PHEV to date 1770 kWh

 

[Tobes]

It was reported yesterday UK electricity is now about 50pc more expensive than in Germany and France, and four times as expensive as in the US.
I wonder if this is having an adverse effect on EV sales?

Is it affecting EV sales? I don't think so - they are up again. And - importantly- if you have an EV (or PHEV) and the right charger, and a smart meter, you can gain access to much cheaper tariffs that save money for the whole house.

EV sales are dropping elsewhere too.. But nuff said.

SMARD | Electricity market in transition - this is how electricity market 2.0 works

www.smard.de

EV sales are up, not dropping. BEV registrations are up 24% year over year from last Sept and up 13% year to date this year.

Source: SMMT

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

 

[Dustydog]

Tobes
Mike Hawes SMMT CEO raises some concerns about the time scales and the drop in EV van sales.

How is the used EV market doing?

MG EVs are appearing everywhere. Bargain basement😉
Are EV manufacturers and Dealers still offering heavy discounts like last year?

The SMMT sales figures don’t differentiate between Company and a private EV sales? Are those numbers available?

However compared to the rest of Europe we are still paying a lot more per KW🤪

 

[otherclive]

Is it affecting EV sales? I don't think so - they are up again. And - importantly- if you have an EV (or PHEV) and the right charger, and a smart meter, you can gain access to much cheaper tariffs that save money for the whole house.

EV sales are up, not dropping. BEV registrations are up 24% year over year from last Sept and up 13% year to date this year.

Source: SMMT

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

I was actually referring to EV sales “elsewhere” as meaning Europe, plus sales had not reached the government target required to avoid “ fines”.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-car-sales-3-year-low-august-ev-sales-down-439-acea-says-2024-09-19/

 

[Sam Vimes]

Is it affecting EV sales? I don't think so - they are up again. And - importantly- if you have an EV (or PHEV) and the right charger, and a smart meter, you can gain access to much cheaper tariffs that save money for the whole house.

EV sales are up, not dropping. BEV registrations are up 24% year over year from last Sept and up 13% year to date this year.

Source: SMMT

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

Depends where you get your news. Articles I've read indicate a slow down in sales.

Only a couple of days ago Toyota announced they were delaying production of EVs in the USA because of demand issues. Volvo have given up plans to sell only EVs by 2030.

 

[Tobes]

I was actually referring to EV sales “elsewhere” as meaning Europe

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-car-sales-3-year-low-august-ev-sales-down-439-acea-says-2024-09-19/

Those articles do annoy me. The numbers quoted seem to imply it's just German and France who have the big drop, and because they are large markets in the EU, it skews the figures, making for a more impressive headline.
So yes - the EU number is down, but actually only in certain countries with certain regulatory conditions.

 

[Tobes]

Tobes
Mike Hawes SMMT CEO raises some concerns about the time scales and the drop in EV van sales.

How is the used EV market doing?

MG EVs are appearing everywhere. Bargain basement😉
Are EV manufacturers and Dealers still offering heavy discounts like last year?

The SMMT sales figures don’t differentiate between Company and a private EV sales? Are those numbers available?

However compared to the rest of Europe we are still paying a lot more per KW🤪

Agree Dusty, EV van sales are down, but they are a small portion of the market (about 1% of the BEV car market?)

EV used market is harder to judge, but seems to be doing well. The market its self is MUCH larger (as would be expected given the number of new cars sold) but the average time to sell an EV is now about the same as Diesel and shorter than petrol.

Used electric car prices are falling, fast! | The Electric Car Scheme

We aim to understand the correlation between used electric car prices falling and sales rising, what this means for the wider electric car market and how salary sacrifice fits into this.

www.electriccarscheme.com

AFAIK there is no clear way of differentiating between company and private EV sales, and it's very hard to judge as the use of private leases, and salary sacrifice schemes is increasing, both of which result in a fleet sale for a private car.

Just for my own curiosity, I asked ChatGPT the following.
"show me a bar chart of the average price of domestic electricity in the 1st half of 2024 in Euros per kWh in the EU and UK , displayed from highest to lowest, displaying N/A for countries where no data is available. "

It produced this. with the following notes. "Here is the bar chart showing the average price of domestic electricity in the first half of 2024 for the EU and UK, displayed from highest to lowest. Countries with unavailable data are labeled as "N/A" and shown in red."

 

[Tobes]

Depends where you get your news. Articles I've read indicate a slow down in sales.

Only a couple of days ago Toyota announced they were delaying production of EVs in the USA because of demand issues. Volvo have given up plans to sell only EVs by 2030.

There are certainly news articles out there, and they generally focus on individual companies. The hard data of registrations from the SMMT though shows a clear upward trend in UK registrations independent of company.

It's accurate to say that the growth in market share is reducing, which is a natural and expected thing. As the EV portion of the market grows, it's harder to maintain growth rate at the same pace. When you have 100% market share growth can only be 0% or negative. A growth rate of 25% on a base of 50% would take you to 62.5% in one go which would be unconceivable.

 

[Buckman]

Wow excuse after excuse to justify wasting money on an EV.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Comparing costs of electricty in different countries doesn't really mean much. Income, disposable income and taxes also need to be compared.