Energy prices

[Sam Vimes]

Just to put that in context, October 2021 saw Gas generation constriant payments of 144 million. Thats one month, with the same cost as one YEAR for wind.

UK gas plant constraint costs up 250% month on month in Oct: Nat Grid ESO

A 250% month on month increase in constraint payments to GB gas fired power plants was behind October s record Balancing Mechanism costs, National Grid Electricity System Operator data showed Dec. 9.

www.spglobal.com

Lets keep focus on what is really expensive here...

Load balancing is complicated and picking figures to compare wind with gas generation needs some context. When the wind blows hard and consistently this causes a reduction in the need for conventional generation. So constraint payments to wind farms may drop because their output is in demand whereas conventional generators are told to turn off, hence their constraint payments rise.

Supposedly the constraint payments in total for 2021 as the article impies ran into £2.6bn. Partly this is due to the success of Wind Farms but the unpredicabilty of output means that there needs to be other sources available when the wind doesn't blow.

While constraint payments are perhaps a small percentage of the total cost of generation they are still being paid for by the consumer. I can imagine the outcry if our electricity suppliers notified us that as we were away in our caravans for a couple of weeks and didn't need their electricity we would still be charged as if we had used it and probably more than the usual unit cost.

However, this goes on in the background and has little visibility to consumer. I think we also need to remember that these are private industries.

It's true that we as consumers already pay for services even when we don't use them. Broadband/Telephone for example are paid monthly even when we are away and not using them. But we go into these services with our eyes open and its under our control. Constraint payments are not.

 

[Hutch]

Never knew that. I thought that when they wanted oil or gas they simply cut a hole in the side of the mains pipe?

Oh yes, they certainly done that. Locals would also deliberatly pollute the swamps to claim compensation from oil companys.

Are Nigeria’s promises to end gas flaring merely hot air? - ISS Africa

The government has done so little for so long that it’s unclear how recent COP26 pledges will be met.

issafrica.org

.

 

[Buckman]

Oh yes, they certainly done that. Locals would also deliberatly pollute the swamps to claim compensation from oil companys.

Are Nigeria’s promises to end gas flaring merely hot air? - ISS Africa

The government has done so little for so long that it’s unclear how recent COP26 pledges will be met.

issafrica.org

.

Having lived in Africa it can be the norm. We had an incident where they were illegally syphoning fuel from a tanker when one of them decided to have a smoke. They then became part of history!

 

[Tobes]

Load balancing is complicated and picking figures to compare wind with gas generation needs some context. When the wind blows hard and consistently this causes a reduction in the need for conventional generation. So constraint payments to wind farms may drop because their output is in demand whereas conventional generators are told to turn off, hence their constraint payments rise.

Supposedly the constraint payments in total for 2021 as the article impies ran into £2.6bn. Partly this is due to the success of Wind Farms but the unpredicabilty of output means that there needs to be other sources available when the wind doesn't blow.

While constraint payments are perhaps a small percentage of the total cost of generation they are still being paid for by the consumer. I can imagine the outcry if our electricity suppliers notified us that as we were away in our caravans for a couple of weeks and didn't need their electricity we would still be charged as if we had used it and probably more than the usual unit cost.

However, this goes on in the background and has little visibility to consumer. I think we also need to remember that these are private industries.

It's true that we as consumers already pay for services even when we don't use them. Broadband/Telephone for example are paid monthly even when we are away and not using them. But we go into these services with our eyes open and its under our control. Constraint payments are not.

I agree Sam, the picture of an entire industry is rarely visible to the consumer or casual bystander. Keeping the lights on when the renewables are not generating, or at peak busy hour is certainly not a simple job, and - as you say- the private companies who generate our energy have to do so at a profit while operating within the regulatory framework set out by the government.

What does appear to be true is that when considering lifetime costs, the cost of renewable energy is lower per kWh than conventional CCG (which I believe is the lowest cost of the fossil infrastructure). Finding solutions to long term storage (seasonal shift) to take advantage of high production - low demand, and move energy to low production - high demand, is a worthy and necessary goal.

 

[Buckman]

Mines buy a lot of extra power and when they do not use it, it is sold to the highest bidder so at least it is used. Bakeries i.e. Hovis, Warburtons etc are probably one of the heaviest users of energy.

 

[otherclive]

Mines buy a lot of extra power and when they do not use it, it is sold to the highest bidder so at least it is used. Bakeries i.e. Hovis, Warburtons etc are probably one of the heaviest users of energy.

There are a few industries where the energy usage is very high and if they have to shut down it can takes weeks/months to get back up to speed. IE glass, aluminium, steel.

 

[Bluetonic]

Don't forget to send meter readings today if you are on a standard tariff, Pay for what you have used at the old rate

 

[RogerL]

Don't forget to send meter readings today if you are on a standard tariff, Pay for what you have used at the old rate

Unless you're with Octopus - in their case, send meter readings tomorrow as their revised variable tariff doesn't start until the 2nd April for some reason.

 

[Tobes]

Mines buy a lot of extra power and when they do not use it, it is sold to the highest bidder so at least it is used. Bakeries i.e. Hovis, Warburtons etc are probably one of the heaviest users of energy.

AFAIK - That's market hedging, not purchase of actual energy. Today the energy suppliers can't store power.

 

[Buckman]

AFAIK - That's market hedging, not purchase of actual energy. Today the energy suppliers can't store power.

I cannot remember how it works, but the mine connects into the distribution network to add power to the network so they must be generating some excess power so using the word "storage" was probably incorrect?

 

[Buckman]

I did a reading today to input meter read into British Gas website however as we have a Smart meter, I cannot do this!

 

[JTQ]

I did a reading today to input meter read into British Gas website however as we have a Smart meter, I cannot do this!

Possibly because in that case it is not needed, being covered by the fact its "smart"?
I would simply photo it with my smartphone, as supporting evidence if mischarging does come an issue.

I do it for other reasons, mid contract, but I have still done just what I suggest, though via pre installed webcams. I do as a monthly routine anyway as I like having such data, years in years back.