enough choice in the market? Discuss.

Mel

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Mar 17, 2007
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I just read the "latest news" feature that the Explorer group were bringing back the compass range because there was not enough choice in the market. It also says that the compass vans won't just be re-badge of the Eldiss range. Do you think that there is enough choice in the caravan market or do we just see the same layouts and specs with just minor variations repeated across manufacturers?
mel
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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Hi Mel
We used to enjoy visiting caravan shows and having a look around caravan dealers forecourts just to see what was available and to keep up to speed with current trends but caravans now seem to be clones with each manufacturer designing pretty much the same formula.
See one and you've seen them all has never seemed so true.
This 'follow my leader' design strategy by manufacturers will hit the rocks when the current elderly generation of relatively prosperous baby boomer luxury caravan buyers have gone, to be replaced by the austerity generation of late retirees who may look for lighter models to save towcar fuel, with fewer of the luxury type items that have become standardised in recent times to save money.
Caravan designers will really have to start thinking of younger caravan buyers with back to basics tin tents because the caravan market as it stands is unsustainable for the future.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Mel
I'm all for variations but I do hate the reinvention of the wheel.
My Wyoming has a large rectangular shower. The Unicorn Barcelona now comes with a circular module shower. Loads of space gets lost!

Appliances in the main are the same, Thetford Truma etc so the manufacturer has to add an extra "wow" factor to tempt the buyer.
IMO Bailey and Elddis are on the right track with their construction methods ie Alu-tech and Solid.
I agree with Parksy there should be more variation for families and at an affordable price. Maybe a very basic model with DIY build scope.
Ultimately a caravan should be like the Tardis. Small on the outside and massive on the inside.
smiley-kiss.gif

Oh well I can dream but full utilisation of every available square inch seems to have been missed recently.
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hi Mel, I agree with Parksy 100% while it has to be said that modern vans are much more comfortable than the ones of old, the market does seem in rut churning out the same old layouts and equipment levels there is no inventivness anymore yes we have new materials and build tecniques. but the same old vans. there must be a market for something different,
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Personally, I think there should be far more variation in layouts but so often a manufacturer introduces (or re-introduces) a different layout but it doesn't sell so they drop it - supply & demand at work. I personally think there's far too many fixed bed layouts - but that's what sells.
At one time Swift Group had 4 parallel ranges - same layouts, equipment and prices but different colour furnishings - now reduced to 2 or 1 because it was senseless overkill as after 12 months the furnishings would be out of fashion!
If caravans are "in a rut" then caravan buyers have to take full responsibility, they don't have to buy what they don't like!
 
Jun 11, 2012
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I think the answer here is to put a Female into a shell of a caravan and say here you are its yours do what you will with it and come up with a layout that will work.We have worked our way up from a single axle to a twin to arrive at what we thought would work and to a point it does but to be honest I can hear her indoors saying well they could have done this or that.
I have to say though we are happy with the van I think it needs a females touch.
Sir Roger
 

Parksy

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It's no good creeping round the ladies Sir Roger.
smiley-kiss.gif

How do you know that some caravan interiors are not designed by females already?
 
Jun 11, 2012
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Parksy Ill answer that when my wifes not looking over my shoulder.Not that Im frightened of her.(I am Really).I really dont know it just seems to me a little something that gets missed and I think its a female that needs to come up with it.
Anyway I feel like have a be nice to ladies week ,
Im off now Earl Gray brewing . Toodle PIp. Sir Roger
 
Apr 28, 2011
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Hi All
I quite like some of the layouts from the euro caravan manufacterers, Swift Bailey etc should take a fresh look at the likes of Adria and Hymer for a different layout, Also some of the soft upholstery (cusions) are way to garish to my mind.
Towcars are getting lighter and lighter and some Manufacturers have responded to this (Lunar Bailey Swift) but with this comes problems, they feel cheap and nasty, Surely a van can be made lighter without feeling cheap, in this day and age where different lighter materials could substitute wood etc in a caravan why arent they using them in contruction.
All in all we are happy with our van but is it because we didnt have much choice.
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hi John, your absolutely right about choice, when we decided to go back to a tourer, I made a list of all the requirements,
it had to be light enough to be towed by a smaller car the more economical the better, it had to be small enough to fit into the garage at home I built to house the motorhome ie 20ftX10ft, have the best in way of equipment and comfort and be a 2 berth.
we looked at literaly 1000's of vans over a 6mth period and the only vans to fit the criteria were 2 baileys and one adria allthough the adria was a bit spartan for her in doors, out of the 2 baileys one had been discontinued " 400/2" and the 380/2 and that did not have a end washroom,
so the actual number of vans that suited was "zero" in the end we went for the 380/2 as it so happend a local dealer had one on display at a huge discount and threw in loads of extras like awning, battery, EHU, ect ect.
yes we are very happy with it, it is still bone dry (probably because it's kept in a garage" and even though it is now 7years old still looks new, but we still miss the end washroom,
we have looked at the new models whenever a new one came out, but apart from the the new venus range from swift nothings any better than the bailey so it looks like we will keep it untill our touring days are over,
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I agree that the current generation of vans are comfortable but I do object to having 'extras' included without my say so. They are getting too heavy and as each generation of new cars is lighter than the outgoing model the gap is widening. If I were buying as a younger family man I'd be looking for lightweight, space, excellent build quality with 10 year water ingress warranty. Fittings would be optional such as smaller fridge, hob, grill but no oven etc. If I wanted good quality audio Im sure that within the family there would be a small portable system somewhere. As Parksy says a well made spacious tent on wheels. Then as families grow up the parents may want to branch out into a more expensive and luxurious model, but you have them hooked oon enjoying the outdoors when they are younger.
 
Aug 4, 2004
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Parksy said:
Hi Mel
We used to enjoy visiting caravan shows and having a look around caravan dealers forecourts just to see what was available and to keep up to speed with current trends but caravans now seem to be clones with each manufacturer designing pretty much the same formula.
See one and you've seen them all has never seemed so true.
This 'follow my leader' design strategy by manufacturers will hit the rocks when the current elderly generation of relatively prosperous baby boomer luxury caravan buyers have gone, to be replaced by the austerity generation of late retirees who may look for lighter models to save towcar fuel, with fewer of the luxury type items that have become standardised in recent times to save money.
Caravan designers will really have to start thinking of younger caravan buyers with back to basics tin tents because the caravan market as it stands is unsustainable for the future.

Spot on! Can't argue with that analysis and logic. Just wish the caravan industry would read it especially about the clones. Don't they have people with imagination in their design departments?
 

Mel

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Mar 17, 2007
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I love the layout of my van; but clearly not enough other people loved it because Eldis and Lunar were the only 2 manufacturers to make it recently and they only did so for a year and then discontinued it. I would have liked this layout but with a higher spec, cos we can tow it and could afford it, but it didn't feature in higher spec ranges except on a twin axle. I would like more choice but the manufacturers have to sell and make money. We do see some unusual designs, like the Stealth vans but these have vanished. The latest new design, the Eterniti with a slide out, seems to be taking a very long time to appear. Perhaps we buyers are in a vicious cycle with manufacturees. They design consevatively: so we buy conservatively; so they design conservatively and so on.
mel
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Mel,

That's an clever question! which camp do you belong to?

Too much choice or not enough?

If there such as thing as a perfect design, everyone would be using it, there would be no need for choice, but it is easy to see that a one design only scenario could not work, simply because caravanners families are not all the same size. I know that's a gross over simplification, but it illustrates the point there needs to be choice.

As with almost everything we do, we like to be a little different, so again choice is important, and it can be just little things (not just children and rats)that upset some people more than others so a sense of being able control or change your environment by making choices and personalising it is seen as important.

In theory each caravan manufacture would like to think they can offer enough variations and options to cover the wildest dreams of Mrs & Mrs All Public, but that is of course is impossible, but add in the variety of options that each new manufacture brings and that impossibility factor reduces.

However there are only a limited number of possible basic internal layouts largely dictated by the size of beds we need, and the maximum dimensions a caravan can be, and the limiting factor of the towing capability of vehicles. So across different manufacturers you will find many of the same themes appearing.

Where designers in the UK have tried to step outside the bounds of convention, the designs, I suppose by their nature, have tended to be esoteric, and it does take quite a lot of bravado to convince a very conservative public to buy avant-garde products.

It doesn't help that such offerings especially from new manufactures tend to be rather expensive which puts an inevitable brake on sales.

But that cant be the whole reason:- I recall many years ago one of the mainstream caravan manufacturers did invest in a very leading edge caravan design (I think it was Avondale). Despite its selling price being held low to attract customers, I believe they took no orders, and only sold the two exhibition models.

I do find it annoying when exactly the same product in every detail is offered under two brand names by the same manufacture. for example do you remember the BMC Austin and Morris mini/1100/1300 ranges? and in more recent times even different manufactures have shared identical products such as Renault and Vauxhall commercial vans. Others have used the same basic shell and customised them such as the Mk1 Ford Galaxy, VW Sharan and Seat Alhambra etc

One can feel 'cheated' in some ways, but by sharing development costs and common components helps to keep costs down, and the same would apply to caravans. So expect to find caravans with shared designs and features across different ranges.
 

Mel

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Mar 17, 2007
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Prof John L said:
Hello Mel,

That's an clever question! which camp do you belong to?

Too much choice or not enough?

Thanks for the compliment Prof.
My problem is that I am described by AJP Taylor's words: "extreme views weakly held" and can swap "camps" with only a little persuasion (aside from on a small number of vehemently fought topics). I think that there is not enough diversity in caravans; so not enough choice. But as I say above consumers should influence the market place and have to take some responsibilty.
mel
 
Apr 28, 2011
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Mel said:
I love the layout of my van; but clearly not enough other people loved it because Eldis and Lunar were the only 2 manufacturers to make it recently and they only did so for a year and then discontinued it. I would have liked this layout but with a higher spec, cos we can tow it and could afford it, but it didn't feature in higher spec ranges except on a twin axle. I would like more choice but the manufacturers have to sell and make money. We do see some unusual designs, like the Stealth vans but these have vanished. The latest new design, the Eterniti with a slide out, seems to be taking a very long time to appear. Perhaps we buyers are in a vicious cycle with manufacturees. They design consevatively: so we buy conservatively; so they design conservatively and so on.
mel

Hi Mel
The problem with Eternity and stealth is that they are new manufacturers and a large percentage of us dont want to hand over a large wedge of cash for one of there caravans only to find that a year or 2 down the road they go out of business and your van starts to develope a leak and you are left high and dry.
I know the same could be said for manufacturers that have been around for years but there caravans are tried and tested.
Personally Building a caravan with a slide out and a 2000kg MTPLM is a bit silly when other manufacturers are trying to make there vans lightweight, These large heavy vans may be ok for Uncle Sam but we dont have the cheap fuel etc that they have.

John
 
Aug 4, 2004
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johnandrew70 said:
Hi Mel
The problem with Eternity and stealth is that they are new manufacturers and a large percentage of us dont want to hand over a large wedge of cash for one of there caravans only to find that a year or 2 down the road they go out of business and your van starts to develope a leak and you are left high and dry.
John

If you develop a leak, it is unlikely you will be left high and dry.
smiley-laughing.gif
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Ok Mel.

In it's simplistic form we want a 4 berth suitable for 2 people and 2 dogs.

No one makes one yet more 4 berths are used by couples. See the PCv surveys etc.

Why is that a. Nd why had no one made a Super big 2 berth?
Ok got it wrong. Tell me please.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Ok Mel.

In it's simplistic form we want a 4 berth suitable for 2 people and 2 dogs.

No one makes one yet more 4 berths are used by couples. See the PCv surveys etc.

Why is that a. Nd why had no one made a Super big 2 berth?
Ok got it wrong. Tell me please.
 
Sep 18, 2007
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how i so much agree. I would like to change my 16 year old Europa but there it nothing out there that i can even look twice at there are at least three points that get to me. Number one why should i have to stand in the shower to have a pee? Number two cooker right by the door it will be on the way out in a fire, elf and safty? and why do we have to have the fridge on the left so the exhust is in the awning? rant over won't do any good but i feel better
 
Nov 6, 2005
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captain said:
how i so much agree. I would like to change my 16 year old Europa but there it nothing out there that i can even look twice at there are at least three points that get to me. Number one why should i have to stand in the shower to have a pee? Number two cooker right by the door it will be on the way out in a fire, elf and safty? and why do we have to have the fridge on the left so the exhust is in the awning? rant over won't do any good but i feel better
2-berth or more ? Most current 2-berth caravans have full width washrooms with a domestic-style shower enclosure and kitchen, ie cooker/fridge on the offside. 4+ berth caravans have similar toilet/shower separation but kitchen more likely to be on nearside.
Running on LPG, a fridge consumes very little so produces very little exhaust - on 230v mains it produces none at all.
 
Sep 18, 2007
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Hi I agree about the small amount of fumes vented but the awning can get very hot in the sun or does that help the fridge to keep cool my mrs does not think it does
elf and safty with the cooker right by the door ? or is that ok?
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Caravan fridges don't work well in heat wherever they're fitted!
The central "gangway" in any caravan is about the same width as the doorway - so getting past the cooker when it's on fire is no better elsewhere - there's no restriction on putting cookers near doors in domestic property.
Our previous 2-berth had the cooker opposite the door so the same issue - nothing is perfect.
Best fire precautions are a smoke alarm, fire blanket, fire extnguisher - and know how to use them all and know what escape route to use when the primary route is blocked.
 

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