EVs changing the face of caravanning.

[Beachball]

Honestly I think electric will be fantastic for towing. I have always been v excited ! Still am.

Looking forward to trying a hybrid car out and seeing how it does

 

[JTQ]

Honestly I think electric will be fantastic for towing. I have always been v excited ! Still am.

Electric drive as a traction system holds great potential and design possibilities, not just for towing and I doubt any engineer would constructively knock it.
That had been realised well over a century ago, however then and now the "issue" is how to carry sufficient "energy" to power it.
Caravan towing where the mass to be moved is all but double that solo, simply makes carrying the additional energy for like ranges the more challenging.

If the future turns out to be carrying the "energy" in battery technology, which I suspect to prove somewhat a transient venture, then we are faced with stuffing more battery capacity into domestic cars or some break through on battery density discovered and perfected. The battery route also brings the challenges of recharging, at least for some without off road parking, the more so as they will need even more energy than the solo user.

Just a personal view, the present typical battery solution where we have into thousands of inter dependant cells welded or otherwise reliably connected together, is certainly way off an elegant one, and towing simply increases the battery count. IMO till the energy storage density per cell changes the present technology is going to be somewhat hamstrung, much as lead acid technology's energy density, held back things to limited applications, right from 100 plus years ago.

 

[Dustydog]

Didn’t someone post recently that a MB EV that he was interested in had 2.5 tonne tow load?

It was me Clive , post 59.BMW ixM60. The quoted spec is from the new to be owner. £110k for a car is beyond my comprehension. He will be towing a new TA. BMW don’t to seem to list towbars for this car. Hope it works for him . The figures he quotes are straight out of the BMW brochure. Let’s hope he’s not disappointed.
Remember the old adage?” Anything’s possible but at a price”😉
BTW, my home built EV is performing beyond my wildest dreams. Just goes and goes, rarely requiring a charge. And wheelies are very easy. Not good for the chain and transmission. Obviously not in use for the next few months 😥

 

[Tobes]

Caravan towing where the mass to be moved is all but double that solo, simply makes carrying the additional energy for like ranges the more challenging.

I am convinced that the loss of range is not related to mass, but aerodynamics (at least the overwhelming majority).
Mass has an impact for energy used for accelerating, which in an EV can be recouped in part through regenerative breaking. Same for towing over high ground (lifting the mass and then returning to the same level).

But the vast proportion of energy lost (used) when towing is when at cruise speed, overcoming drag. Some of that is drag from the rolling resistance in the tyres (which are impacted by weight if you get the pressure wrong) but the rest is the in the difference in aerodynamics between a modern slippery car and a modern slippery car towing a caravan.

For the few reports I have read of EV owners towing, the small teardrop caravans seem to perform better than even small non-teardrop caravans of the same weight, and for bigger “standard” caravans the weight doesn’t seem to make much difference at all.

 

[RogerL]

I am convinced that the loss of range is not related to mass, but aerodynamics (at least the overwhelming majority).
Mass has an impact for energy used for accelerating, which in an EV can be recouped in part through regenerative breaking. Same for towing over high ground (lifting the mass and then returning to the same level).

But the vast proportion of energy lost (used) when towing is when at cruise speed, overcoming drag. Some of that is drag from the rolling resistance in the tyres (which are impacted by weight if you get the pressure wrong) but the rest is the in the difference in aerodynamics between a modern slippery car and a modern slippery car towing a caravan.

For the few reports I have read of EV owners towing, the small teardrop caravans seem to perform better than even small non-teardrop caravans of the same weight, and for bigger “standard” caravans the weight doesn’t seem to make much difference at all.

That fits with my experience towing with IC vehicles, that frontal area/shape affect towing consumption more than weight, and see no reason why that basic physics is any different for EVs.

Maybe we need to revert to 7' wide caravans as they used to be rather than the modern 7'6" or 8' wide ones.

 

[JTQ]

Maybe we need to revert to 7' wide caravans as they used to be rather than the modern 7'6" or 8' wide ones.

Plus folders, pity when what was the premier UK built product creased production a few years back.

Without doubt towing aerodynamic drag affects the energy consumption, and dominate at steady state.

 

[otherclive]

Plus folders, pity when what was the premier UK built product creased production a few years back.

Without doubt towing aerodynamic drag affects the energy consumption, and dominate at steady state.

Gobur are still in business and recondition, service and sell the folding caravans. Never know their time may return when people realise the limitations of the mini Mink type teardrops.

 

[Buckman]

Didn't someone come up with an idea to reduce the caravan drag by fitting a rounded front which clipped onto the awning rail and also covered the hitch?
I would think that the air flow underneath the caravan and also the rear of the caravan all have an influence on the drag created by a mobile house brink. Plus the length of the hitch. Discussed on this THREAD by Atif.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Didn’t someone post recently that a MB EV that he was interested in had 2.5 tonne tow load?

Yes someone did, but presently that is an exception and as stated I was making the general point.

 

[otherclive]

Yes someone did, but presently that is an exception and as stated I was making the general point.

When does the exception become the rule? My post was a valid one. Anyway tow loads of up tov1600 kg are currently available so perhaps those who wish to tow with an EV will match their aspirations to what is available. As we’ve all done at sometime or other.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the future turns out to be carrying the "energy" in battery technology, which I suspect to prove somewhat a transient venture, then we are faced with stuffing more battery capacity into domestic cars or some break through on battery density discovered and perfected. The battery route also brings the challenges of recharging, at least for some without off road parking, the more so as they will need even more energy than the solo user.

I don't see the issue relates to off road parking. Very few ice owners can refuel when at home, and the increased fuel/energy usage of towing only becomes a problem on the journey not at the start. So the home situation has no relevance.

 

[Dustydog]

Steady on Chaps.
Soon you’ll have me regressing to my 1970/80s NR Nimrod Trailer tent. Super light etc😉

 

[JTQ]

I don't see the issue relates to off road parking. Very few ice owners can refuel when at home, and the increased fuel/energy usage of towing only becomes a problem on the journey not at the start. So the home situation has no relevance.

Of course, it is relevant, far more so than that recharging comparison to ICE powered vehicles.

Consider, for a moment the ramifications of the "recharging" time difference to recharge an ICE with any of today's EVs, coupled to not even reliably being able to park an EV near an owner's home, as we see in street after street in Portsmouth?

 

[Raywood]

I have seen a couple of designs for this but they looked far too big and unwieldy. As far as I can see the only real way to reduce drag is probably pop tops and folding caravans.

 

[Tobes]

Of course, it is relevant, far more so than that recharging comparison to ICE powered vehicles.

Consider, for a moment the ramifications of the "recharging" time difference to recharge an ICE with any of today's EVs, coupled to not even reliably being able to park an EV near an owner's home, as we see in street after street in Portsmouth?

I think it's true for the majority of current batteries and users, given the spareness of ultra rapid chargers. For the 800v based cars (Kia EV6, Hyudai Ioniq 5, Porsche Taycan) which can charge 10-80% in under 20 mins (arround 180 miles) or 10% to 40% in about 5 mins (75 miles) it's less of an issue. The next generation of batteries are looking to achieve even faster rates (There is a fully charged plus podcast on that).
I can see smaller cars, with smaller batteries good for 150 - 170 miles charging in 5 - 10 mins on a suite of local ultra-rapid chargers, coupled with on street lamp post charging, and cross pavement solutions.

 

[Beachball]

Steady on Chaps.
Soon you’ll have me regressing to my 1970/80s NR Nimrod Trailer tent. Super light etc😉

Hi DD because this caravan is so lightweight we have been thinking of upgrading to a Bailey Discovery

 

[JTQ]

Steady on Chaps.
Soon you’ll have me regressing to my 1970/80s NR Nimrod Trailer tent. Super light etc😉

For this reason and others, I seriously think an incarnation of what we would call a "trailer tent", but these days it would need a far "cooler" label and "image" rebranding, will become a lot more popular again, for towed camping.
Its more affordable, stowable and more than adequate for summer vacations, just needs as they say rebranding to create a cool image; if VW type 2s could be made cool camping then anything can!

 

[Dustydog]

For this reason and others, I seriously think an incarnation of what we would call a "trailer tent", but these days it would need a far "cooler" label and "image" rebranding, will become a lot more popular again, for towed camping.
Its more affordable, stowable and more than adequate for summer vacations, just needs as they say rebranding to create a cool image; if VW type 2s could be made cool camping then anything can!

How the tables turn! I couldn’t wait to go bigger. But the trailer tent served us very well for three years. I can see the benefits of lighter units capable of being towed by an EV. I am sure there must be plenty of low cost Ford Escort type sized EVs? We towed a family Elddis Avante 505 with a Ford Orion. Smaller sized EVs start to bring affordability, hopefully , closer to the caravanner? The chap using his BMW ix M60 is in a different ball park.

 

[Buckman]

For this reason and others, I seriously think an incarnation of what we would call a "trailer tent", but these days it would need a far "cooler" label and "image" rebranding, will become a lot more popular again, for towed camping.
Its more affordable, stowable and more than adequate for summer vacations, just needs as they say rebranding to create a cool image; if VW type 2s could be made cool camping then anything can!

Our very first caravan was a trailer tent. I think it was a 6 berth? We had our double bed, the tow youngest share the other bed and cannot remeber where the eldest daughter slept? Bought it in South Africa and towed it behind our BMW 520. For sure you did not know it was there.

 

[JTQ]

Ours was a Dandy, functionally and conceptionally brilliant for our then needs; our two boys sleeping in their own tents, pretty sure they would have it no other way.
"Marmite like" in our family, I loved it being somewhat oblivious to style, the beauty for me being its out and out practicality, my wife hated its looks being akin to a lorry's side brown plasticised fabrics. That the bungies kept breaking her nails was no help.

 

[Tobes]

For this reason and others, I seriously think an incarnation of what we would call a "trailer tent", but these days it would need a far "cooler" label and "image" rebranding, will become a lot more popular again, for towed camping.
Its more affordable, stowable and more than adequate for summer vacations, just needs as they say rebranding to create a cool image; if VW type 2s could be made cool camping then anything can!

We love the idea of a "tentbox" rooftop tent. I would like to use one to do the Scottish NC500 route. But having a "tentbox" type tent as a low trailer with a built in kitchen, space for a loo, water heater, fold out shower, and maybe a bike storage on top, would be very cool. I think thats basically a trailer tent!

 

[RogerL]

We love the idea of a "tentbox" rooftop tent. I would like to use one to do the Scottish NC500 route. But having a "tentbox" type tent as a low trailer with a built in kitchen, space for a loo, water heater, fold out shower, and maybe a bike storage on top, would be very cool. I think thats basically a trailer tent!

What's stopping you taking the caravan round the NC500 - with the exception of the Bealach na Ba to Applecross and the road through Drumbeg, we've done it all with the caravan just not all in one go.

We did Ullapool - Durness-Thurso-Inverness last year and there seemed to be plenty of unused EV chargers.

 

[Tobes]

What's stopping you taking the caravan round the NC500 - with the exception of the Bealach na Ba to Applecross and the road through Drumbeg, we've done it all with the caravan just not all in one go.

We did Ullapool - Durness-Thurso-Inverness last year and there seemed to be plenty of unused EV chargers.

I would like cycle a big chunk of it, while Mrs Tobes drives. She is not even remotely happy towing. The roof box camper would solve that, but a towed trailer tent would not :-(.

 

[Buckman]

We love the idea of a "tentbox" rooftop tent. I would like to use one to do the Scottish NC500 route. But having a "tentbox" type tent as a low trailer with a built in kitchen, space for a loo, water heater, fold out shower, and maybe a bike storage on top, would be very cool. I think thats basically a trailer tent!

Roof top tent and a tent box trailer are two totally different things? I think my son had a roof top tent for a very short while, but decided it was impractical for him to use.

 

[RogerL]

I would like cycle a big chunk of it, while Mrs Tobes drives. She is not even remotely happy towing. The roof box camper would solve that, but a towed trailer tent would not :-(.

Ok, I understand your criteria now.