experienced tower?

[Mel]

Some of the advice out there suggests "experienced towers" can do things not recommended for novices. What do you think qualifies you to call yourself an experienced tower. Is it miles towed, time as a caravanner, conditions towed under, (1 mile in wind and rain worth 10 miles in calm, dry conditions), places towed (10 miles in the yorkshire dales worth 100 miles on a motorway), or outfits towed, (a badly matched outfit without a stabiliser compared to a Freelander towing a van with ATC)?

Also when considering this what would you call caravanners who are "very experienced towers"; (seasoned? veteran?) How about those who have, shall we say, peaked and are past their best?
mel

 

[Damian]

What a good question Mel.
No dout there will be quite a few replies(if people have the patience).
I think that is an almost unanswerable question, and one which each driver will have his or her own interpretation.

Is it the number of miles,,,,,,,,not really as most may be via motorway where nothing happens except boredom.
Is it he number of vans owned,,,,,,,,,not really as one van is much the same as another really.
Is it the number of accidents one has had,,,,,,,,no, just look at the number of drivers whose driving is abysmal, creating frustration in following drivers who do something silly and have the accident, but the perpetrator drives on blissfully unaware they are the root cause.

Road conditions and weather I think do have some bearing, control over badly rutted roads takes some doing, driving in rain and reduced visibility is testing at times.

How many people will admit to being past their best,,,,not many I bet, but observing them on the road tells a different story.

Certainly every time you hitch up you are gaining more experience, the more testing conditions driven in also gains more experience.

I do not believe there is ever a time when a driver knows everything,and if they think they do, then they are a danger to everyone else.

 

[drsorento]

I would say its time spent towing in a variety of traffic conditions in all sorts of weather on all sorts of road types. Its not that far removed from the question of "What is an experianced driver."
All I know I have done alot of towing over the years and not just caravans, and I am still learning as is the case for each and everyone of us except those who are fools.

 

[Past_it]

An interesting question. In my experience as a very very very experienced puller of boxes on wheels I think it's more than just driving it's getting your weights correct, checking tyre pressures, planning the journey and as a small addition, drive as if everybody else on the road is a looney and has a death wish.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is very difficult to quantify experience, and therefore to define some measure that is the point when the inexperienced earn their rite of passage to be called experienced.

As Drsorento points out, it has to be something to do with a mix of driving experiences, but I add its probabley when we have learnt from our mistakes, which also probably means we can never actually achieve full experience. I think this is part of the reason that professionals are always practising and never perfect!

It is probably easier to define 'inexperience' as facing a circumstance you have not previously encountered.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all.
"good answers to a dificult question " my view would probably be to compare it to sex, the first time you do it its all new and a bit of a fumble and done in haste while not knowing what to expect. "the more you do it the better you get at it" until.you reach the point where you think its perfect but by then you are too old to do it.
the answer is no-one knows it all, but some of us (the veteran ones) have been doing it long enough so they dont get caught out by any fundimental mistakes or difficult conditions that may be encountered and have been doing it long enough to know when things are right and when they are not, well before a problem occures.

colin

 

[Gafferbill]

.....an experienced tower is one who knows not to get complacent about anything to do with caravans!

 

[Parksy]

hi all.
"good answers to a dificult question " my view would probably be to compare it to sex, the first time you do it its all new and a bit of a fumble and done in haste while not knowing what to expect. "the more you do it the better you get at it" until.you reach the point where you think its perfect but by then you are too old to do it.......
colin

Brilliant!!!
That's got to be one of the best forum analogies that I've ever read.

I'd say that no one can ever be thought of as totally experienced because as others wrote there is always something new or unexpected in constantly changing road situations.
Degrees of experience are something else though. It could be said that if a person towing a tourer is capable and confident enough to deal with any situation they are experienced.
On the other hand we read a topic on the old forum from Brian who had only used his caravan 3 times when a snake developed on the M5. His caravan overturned and he ended up against the crash barrier in the outside lane facing the wrong way. In terms of actually having had a snake it may be said that he's more experienced than most of us who can do without that particular experience.
Would greater experience have prevented him from being in that unhappy situation? We may never know for sure so in my view all experience is only relative to what is actually happening at that particular time and we should never take anything for granted no matter how experienced we may regard ourself in terms of time spent towing, miles driven, weather conditions etc.

 

[JonnyG1]

Bit confussed here,are we using the term experienced as some sort of degree of albility aquired over time?
Although I feel parksy has given a good classified answer,as to how experience over time can indeed be a blessing.

Footnote to collin,love the colleration of using Sex as an example,But whilst admitely would not call myself an expert,but experience wise the Only way one could adhere to your thought line would to have had the pleasure of numerous partners over numerous time.

You lucky B................

 

[xtrailman]

An experienced tower is someone who has had a snake, and survived it?
Likewise a soldier is a veteran only after being under fire?

 

[JohnGriffiths]

Following from the last post, does experienced mean those who have experienced events during towing? e.g. Turning into a dead end road, trying to pull up a steep gravel road without 4 wheel drive or doing a U turn in the middle of a french village when you realise the caravan is wider than the gap between the houses. Sounds like I'm pretty experienced!
As the replicant Batty in Blade Runner says:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

 

[smiley]

I wouldn't call myself experienced or veteran.
JUST GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD !!!!!!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all.
I am glad my suggestion was so well recieved, I wasn't too sure when I posted it. however it was meant to demonstrate that expertiees and ability go hand in hand with experience and you never stop leering "sorry learning" until a point where you think you just about know most of it and then realise you are too old to carry on doing it.
how many times have you heard someone say "oh yes been there done that bought the t-shirt" in other words oh yes I know exactly what you mean I have had the the same experience. Over time one gets to feel allmost smell when something is not right or going to happen before it does. Experience can only come with the passage of time and events that happen along the way, so yes been down a lane that is too narrow for the van,
yes had to do a 3point turn after going down a dead end,
yes had the trailer try to overtake me going down a hill,
yes packed the van up in a rush for some reason only to stop 5 miles down the road because I had forgot to lift the jockey wheel or connect the plugs.
oh and yes not loaded the van properly before a journey only to have to stop and reload it further down the road after changing my underpants
and finaly oh yes had a blow out on the offside front wheel on the motorway while towing a boat.
untill you have had some of these thing go wrong learned how to aviod any problems in the first place and gain the confidence to know whats what takes time, it is impossible to learn it all in a half day towing course although it does help with the basics.

my old driving instructor told me on the day I passed my driving test " great well done lad now you can go out on to the road a really learn how to drive" sums it up perfectly for me.

colin.

PS. in answer to a comment made above I was a teenager in the 60s so yes I am a lucky b*****r

 

[Mel]

What great answers. It is so difficult to objectify a feeling. Mega praise for Colin's analogy.
Thanks for your replies.
mel

 

[RayS]

I guess i would call myself and experienced caravanner having been at it since 1967. In those far off days stabilisers were fairly rare, and chassis was 'cart sprung' and on cross ply tyres. I also drove a lot solo in the course of my work, sometimes well over 30,000 miles/year on cars like Cortina mk 1.

Now getting (a lot) older and (a bit) slower, what sticks is the 'pattern recognition' embedded in the brain which causes me to slow down instinctively due to some pattern in the traffic ahead, frequently causing my passenger to ask why. With high mileage you instinctiviely develop a mood of 'defensive driving' as the few minutes potentially saved are absolutely not worth the hassle of getting it wrong.

Attending to the detail of correct loading, correct tyre pressures, being aware of where the wind is coming from and how strong it is, clean windows and mirrors become second nature and you develop an innate 'pre-flight check' mentality without need for clipboard and tick list but with a walk round before departure. (Oh and the 'captain' is responsible, even if the 'crew' has forgotten to release on of the movers).

How far this fits the sex analogy is for others to judge !!

 

[Steve L]

Having towed trailers for 33+ years from the day I passed my driving test 11 days after my 17th birthday, I could call myself experienced. But no!

What quantifies experience is doing the job and making mistakes, but learning from them. You can't buy a can of experiance like you do deoderant.

I towed a Jag 420 on a 12ft 6" Ifor Williams flatbed trailer from Glasgow to Leominster. That taught me not to skimp on hiring a proper car trailer and the price one pay's for too much nose weight. My espace towed it very well upto 40Mph, but the lack of enough deck length to balance the trailer was the problem. The pain being 14 Hrs drive!!

Towed a yacht and found out just how unstable a top heavy trailer is.

I once towed a XJ6 backed onto a car trailer and driven up a set of DIY car ramps to get the rear end to clear the back of my Morris Marina estate 1.8. Then towed it from Hereford to Leominster going up Dinmore hill (1 in 10) in 1st gear. Those were the days when coppers had push bikes.

Even last Monday, I towed my 6ft box trailer laden with 46 Plastic storage boxes and Bannana boxes of my daughters uni work plus her bed and book case on top. I didn't loose a thing due to the loading experiences I've gained over 3 decades of driving.

I could write a book on my exploits of towing.

But all the exploits and "flying by the seat of my pants" has taught me to respect and enjoy driving.

Have fun, enjoy life, make mistakes but best of all learn from them and make your self a better person. That's the recipy for experience.

Atb Steve L.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

How far this fits the sex analogy is for others to judge !!

perfectly I would say Ray the clue is in the word experienced one could write a book on it as steve suggests its only when some thing has happend that another lesson has been learned.
the more you know the safer you are, some things can be taught other cannot, as I said previously it is only with the passage of time do you gain enough expertiees to know when something is amiss and how to rectify it.

defensive driving is an art that new drivers dont have and so is towing, the newbie has little idea what it is all about this is never more apparent than reading some of the questions posed on this forum. sometimes it is like iced water being poured down the spine for instance. "question. hi newbie here I have just taken delivery of my new 625 t/a caravan but are not sure as to the correct nose weight can anyone help" oooh there goes the iced water. it's not just the fact that a newbie doesn't know and has not checked the figures before buying but just the fact that towing a 6+mtr caravan at the first attempt is something within the capabilities of someone new to towing.
anyone who tows or has towed a 6+ mtr vans knows what is required from practice and may well be happy doing so but for a first van purchase. no way.

 

[Trevor_374452713]

Hello, I think the answers to the questions given can be summed up as "Common Sense", you are never too old to learn but with "Common Sense" you will become more experienced. As a retired Motorway Cop of 30 years experience I was informed many many times "I have never had an accident in 20 years of driving" my immediate thoughts were (though never spoken) "But how many have you caused"

 

[JohnM20]

A difficult question to give a quantified answer to but perhaps a guide may be if the tower is confident, but not complacent or cocky, about driving (or not driving) in any situation and in any weather / road conditions and knowing how to (or how not to) deal with the situation. This probably only comes after not only time but also miles towed when many of these situations may have been encountered and dealt with satisfactorily.

In my own case, with over 30 years towing, when I first took the caravan to France I had never even driven on the continent let alone pulled a caravan there. I went knowing that I had a lack of knowledge and experience and drove accordingly. I have now been over the channel many times since 1993 and now consider myself 'experienced' but not 'fully experienced' as every one of us is learning something new all the time.
JohnM

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all.
in the end it comes down to the same thing you start off knowing very little and over time gain enough knowlege to be confident it what you doing this is called experience the more you do the better you get.

of course common sense should prevale but even that has to be learned through experience afterall how high can you jump if you have never had to or tried to, how many drivers even those with a few years under their belt understand or even know the significance of say the different white lines in the road "and I am not just refering to double ones or box junctions" just the ordinary ones in the middle of the road (answers on a postcard please) or even the positioning of street lights and the distance apart they are in relation to the speed limits. Or judging the speed of other traffic.

there is another tread running about kerbing the van, this comes down to spacial awareness, how wide it is, how high, how long, whats its turning circle under tow!!!. and no I have never done it.

there is also the other side of the coin that experience gives you and that is in the planning the route, availablity of rest areas knowing the black spots and hazards and checking the weater reports not just in case the sun comes out but road conditions the wind speed and direction while traveling.

as I said in a previous post some of us "veterans" could write a book on the subject and will offer advise when asked but just dont dismiss us all as old fogeys that are past their sell by date and wear experience like a badge of honor, its more important than that it is about being safe at all times eliminating the risk and being confident in what you are doing.

this is my last post on the subject unless some ones answers the above questions.

colin.