External Gas BBQ Point

Mar 14, 2005
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Can anyone tell me how the gas point works on the outside of the van or "in the awning".

I cant see a tap to cut of the gas supply so assume there is some kind of attachment to put on.

The van is a 2001 coachman 540/4 vip but i assume all gas points are universal

many thanks in anticipation

Davie
 
Jun 7, 2005
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davie

It is a quick release coupling, basically you go to your local caravan accessory shop and you will be able to purchase a fitting (ferrule) which goes into the van side, you slide a sleeve back before inserting the ferrule into the fitting. The ferrule takes a standard hose which you then attach to your barbie
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks alot guys!!!!

Oh...by the way forgot to ask is there any limit on the length of the gas piping you can use from this gas point to, say a cadac placed outside the awning

Thanks
 
Sep 13, 2006
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I think it is supposed to be 2 metres but your local dealer or the shop that sells you the pipe should know.

While on this topic, my handbook says it is only to be used for BBQ's, I am thinking of using it to power a 3 way fridge in a well ventilated awning - does anyone know of any burning (sic) issues that would prevent me from doing this?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I think it is supposed to be 2 metres but your local dealer or the shop that sells you the pipe should know.

While on this topic, my handbook says it is only to be used for BBQ's, I am thinking of using it to power a 3 way fridge in a well ventilated awning - does anyone know of any burning (sic) issues that would prevent me from doing this?
I used a chst fridge in my awning for years and never had any problem. I did however make sure I did not place the frdge near to a window, also make sure you bget your fridge level or it does not work properly.
 
Gary,

the reason the Handbook states that the point is only to be used for a barbecue, is that this type of Appliance is deemed to be used on an intermitent or temporary basis and usually under supervision. Clearly connecting say a Fridge implies permanent and unattended use, in which case the Rubber connetion pipe could be come a trip hazard or if God forbid a fire should occur and melt it, a serious Fire Hazard or Explosion Risk.

The Gas Safety Regs. Banned the use of Rubber type Flexible Connections, in Domestic Properties, Years ago. But clearly in Mobile Applications they are alowed with restrictions. Strictly speaking the Maximum Length is 1 Metre (this a reccomendation only). But if like me you don't want a Barbecue 1 Metre away from a
 
Sep 13, 2006
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Eddie

Thanks for your reply - but (apart from the connector) what would be the difference between connecting to the BBQ point and connecting to a bottle (which is as they are intended to be used).

You still have the rubber hose and trip hazard and it would still be left unattended.

I had put it down to limitations of the connector itself.
 
Nov 7, 2005
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I have long since decided that the external BBQ point is the most useless fixture on my caravan. It's position - inside the awning at the front - makes it almost impossible to safely place a BBQ within one metre of it. An outlet at the lower front of the van would have been more sensible, but i still prefer my barbie to be much further away from the outfit...
 
Jun 7, 2005
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Colinn

Totally agree with you that's why I got a 3 metre length of hose for mine. Not from a caravan shop I might add, all the ones I have been to stick to the 1 Mt rule, any Calor centre however will sell you any length.You just need to be carefull and route the hose so it's out of the way.
 
Gary,

Sorry for the late reply work got in the way. I assume that your comment is refering to the portable Fridge. I agree that that the "legislation" is somewhat ambigious, but if you assume that the Maximum length of Flexibble Supply Pipe allowed is 1.Metre. In the case of any Portable LPG Appliance the Cylinder would, by default, be adjacent to to the Appliance. This would minimise the previously mentioned Dangers. There ofcourse, has to be some Rubber Pipe, but limiting the length is an attempt to reduce risk. If people choose to disregard the reccomendations that's their business. I am amazed that the very people who, on this forum are so prcise about Nose weights, Mptl's, Un covered Electrical Sockets, Speed Limits, Etc, Etc. Are prepared to ignore common sense Safety advice from Corgi And The LPG Industry.

I also agree, as I said previously, that the Barbecue Point is in the Wrong place, and just inviting people to use exteded supplies and even, as I saw recently to use the Barbie in the Awning! Whilst not an expert in Gas supplies I spent 26 Years in the Fire Service, the last Five as a Fire Investigation Officer. This involves Investigating Fire Scenes and analysing Evidence to arrive at a supposed cause. On numerous occaisons the Evidence lead me to conclude that, the Cause of the Fire, sometimes involving the loss of life was. "An unauthorised Act or Ommision". Ie. The alteration of Gas suply pipe to a Portable LPG Heater. Resulting in a serious Fire and Explosion. In an effort to avoid being involved in similar incidents, my advice would be to follow the guidelines laid down by the proffesionel bodies. Even if it doesn't suit us, or is inconvenient. Don't forger that a careless act of one, can ultimately involve several other innocent people.

Eddie 1 From Nottingham
 
May 12, 2006
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Whooooa Eddie'

Don't tar everyone with the same brush,some people who reply to nose weights or MTPLM have a view on what they think is correct. I have never seen anyone say, yeah go ahead load the van to what weight you want etc. Never mind the legislation, which is what you seem to be saying with regards to gas fittings.I read that you can't connect a gas appliance using a flexible hose, well our new cooker was fitted by a CORGI registered installers and that's what he did !!!!

Val & Frank
 
Apr 13, 2005
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my cooker at home that was fitted by a corgi installer allso has a flexible rubber hose fitted from the appliance to the wall outlet point and i have seen these hoses readily available for purchase by anyone in B&Q, the cooker was only fitted last year.

On the subject of the barbeque point on the van where else could it be put that would be so much better ?, I just purchased a 3 meter lengh of hose and the cadac will now sit anywhere i want safely away from the van and the hose just goes under the awning.

With regard to davies van the 2001 coachmans did just have a quick connector with no shut of valve fitted other than the self close of the conector, newer models like all other manufacturers have a red shut off tap fitted alongside the connecter.
 
Frank,

You seemed to have misunderstood my Comments. Firstly I wasn't advocating that any one had encouraged others to ignore Safety Advice. In Fact I was saying just the Opposite. I will attempt to re-phrase my Point. Frequently on this Site members will advise others in precise Detail, the Technicalities of Nose Weights, MPTLs, Towing Speeds, Etc. And the Dangers and potential Risks both to Safety, and the Legality of Ignoring that Advice. But the same people who give these Warnings are prepared to disregard Good Safety Advice from The Caravan Industry and Dealerships regarding Gas Safety. Ie. Quote "I use a 3 Metre Length of Rubber gas supply Pipe." With the potential Dangers as Highlited in my previous Post.

Regarding Gas Cookers in the Home being Installed on a "Flex". This is a Purpose made Flexible Connection Constructed in Three Layers. A (Wipe Clean)outer Rubber Sheath, covering a Braided armourering, inside of which is the Gas carrying Neoprene "Pipe". This is Fire Retardent and Kink Resistant. Unlike the Rubber Pipe used from the Point in the 'Van. It Connects to a Disconnectable Bayonet Fitting in the Wall, the Gas connection in Caravans is a Smaller Version of this. This Flex has a Maximum Length of 120mm. And can't be alterd or extended as the fittings are Swaged on both Ends. A gas Cooker or Catering Appliance is the only type of Gas Appliance allowed to be Installed on a Flexible Connection. Without exception. This is to allow removal for Cleaning. Incidentally a Gas Hob must be installed on a Rigid Pipe. This is according to the Gas safety Regs. Contravention of which is a Criminal Offence. Just to reiterate Gas Cookers installed as Indicated by Icemaker are Safe and legally Installed. I didn't go into this previously as I thought, that as they were introduced in the 1970s. The use of This type of Fitting was common Knowledge. Finally I can give people information and advice based om my Fire Service Experience, but whether they take notice is their choice. Stay Safe.

Regards Eddie.1 From Nottingham.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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I think you will find Edddie that nobody on this forum would put themselves or any body else at risk willingly. personally i would much rather my cadac be 3 meters away from my awning than 1 meter, i think the very small risk of some one tripping over the supply pipe lying flat on the floor is far smaller than the risk of my awning catching fire due to the cadac being so close at 1 meter.

can not see any other risk involved as a 1meter lengh of pipe is just as likely to pinch or burst as a 3 meter lengh and if a fire was to burn through the pipe and ignite the gas supply then all you would get is a larger flame from the burst section as the regulater will restrict the flow of gas to a reasonable level, all we do is open a tap and light the end of the pipe so to speak anyway, allso the regulater has a anti blow back valve fitted so no flame can get to the bottle, its just not possible.

I can see your point if one was to install a permanent device in the van but with portable appliances such as barbeques which are supervised throughout theire use then i really can not see the problem, as you will be aware one of the larger warnings on most barbeques is "keep away from combustiable materials" which is not really possible with 1 meter of pipe. A portable fridge should not need to be too far from the gas point as the pilot light flame is very small and totally enclosed so safe to use in a ventilated awning.

Its great to get a topic like this going as it brings out so much information and to have a fire officer on line is invaluable in our hobby which is pretty much at risk from fire in general. in my present job i am classed as "safety critical" and through my last job i was a registered handler of refrigerants and toxic gasses including ammonia and welding gasses plus chlorines and flourines, i have never in 26 years had an accident or unsafe act, i think my record speaks for itself. best regards, icemaker.
 
Icemaker,

Thanks for your Support on my Comments, I was begining to think that I had Gone on a Bit. However if you look at my original reply to Gary (19th Oct.) You will see that we both agree that a 1 Metre Flex put's the Barbecue Too near either Van or Awning. And as a Barbecue is only intended to be used attended and Intermittently, this is a good reason to extend this. The important bit was regarding the use of a Permanent and un-attended Fridge. I still maintain that 3+ meters of Live Gas Supply laying in the Grass, feeding an Appliance with a Permanent Gas Flame is an Accident waiting to Happen. LPG. Is Heavier than Air, therefore a Fracture or failure of the Rubber Supply anywhere along it's length, would give rise to a ground level Concentration of unburnt LPG. Firstly, this is not always detectable by Smell, (Heads and Noses are by default, well above this.) and secondly, depending on the thickness of the Grass can be retained in large pockets and will eventually "Creep", in all Directions.

Eventually An Ignition Source will be Found. Possibly the Open Flame on the Portable Fridge. Which by it's very Nature is Not Contained in an Air tight or Room Sealed Box. Of course any other Ignition scource would do, which could be the Balanced Flue Terminal of the Caravan Water Heater, or the Spark Ignitin System on the Same Appliance. Ignition would initially be Explosive, owing to the accumulation of Gas, and dependent on the Conditions would lead to a Primary Fire Consuming this Gas. Possibly followed by a Grass Fire around which the Rubber Pipe is resting. Clearly if the Gas Escape had occured during the Night, it would be quite feasible for the Caravan, along with it's neighbours to be sitting in a "Bath" of LPG. With the Ignition Source being several Yards Distant. Once Ignition Has Occured, Fire Spread is usually Rapid and accelerated by the Rubber Pipe Disolving untill an Open end developes, depending on the position of this total failure, will dicate the stage and the possible fate of the occupents. Even Gas regulated at 28 to 32 mb gives a Very Hot Neat and frightening yellow Torch at least a couple of Metres in Length. Coupled with a Jet Engine type Roar. If the Total Breach and Main Fire occures in the Awning, Escape from the Caravan would be very Difficult or impossible. We now have Two distinct situations 1. A fire involving uncontrolled LPG. And 2. A Fire Involving An Awning, Caravan, or indeed adjacent Units. With the Possibility of People Trapped inside. This of course depends on the Time of Day Or Night. The Fire cannot be Controlled untill the Scource of acceleration has been stopped. Ie. By Turning off the gas. Tell me, how do Civilians, with neither Hose Reels Protective Clothing and in a Blind Panic do this? When 99% of all Gas Cylinders are Located in the Front Locker. From here on I will leave people to form their own oppinions and Finish the saga with whatever Ending they Choose. I Know, how a very similar Situation did end. I personnaly feel that I have done this particular subject to Death. and don't intend to Comment further unless My Proffesional Opinion is Questioned. Since my retirement from the Brigade, I now run my own Fire Consultancy Business. I very often find that I am giving People Advice on a multitude of Subjects. As I get paid for this, I am commited to only giving sound and above all else Safe Advice. I always use Experience gained from My Time in the Brigade, when Assesing Risk. The difference now being, that I can Publicly give an opinion or Comment, where as previously this wasn't allowed by The Fire Service. My Golden Rule here however, is never to give sufficient Detail that would allow a particular Incident to be Identified. It is my pleasure to give freely to this Forum the same benefits. Stay Safe.

Eddie 1. From Nottingham.
 

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