could someone please explain to me what the 100 Kw stands for in this heading and the AWD:
Ford Kuga - 2.0 TDCi [AWD] (100 Kw/134 bhp).
Ford Kuga - 2.0 TDCi [AWD] (100 Kw/134 bhp).
finding the ideal towcar
- Thread starter Lonesome-Whizkid
- Start date
Is it best to have a 4x4 as apposed to a 2wd for towing a van and also does it affect every car or just some cars the difference in max towing capacity when the car is either an automatic or a manual transmission? and if I were to list 3 possible choices for my first ideal towcar comments on any of them would be appreciated. And is it advisable to have a diesel or petrol engine?
1st choice kia sportage 2.0 crdi diesel 4 x 4
2nd choice kia sorento 2.5 4x4 diesel
3rd choice ford kuga 2.0 4x4 deisel
1st choice kia sportage 2.0 crdi diesel 4 x 4
2nd choice kia sorento 2.5 4x4 diesel
3rd choice ford kuga 2.0 4x4 deisel
Lonesome-Whizkid said:
Kw is Kilowatts, a measure of power in 'metric' units. The equivalent 'imperial' units are also given, brake horse power.
AWD is all wheel drive
Lonesome-Whizkid said:
Diesel tends to be better for towing as you get more torque at lower revs, better for pulling away.
I don't have a 4x4, but plenty of forumites will come along and extol any virtues. From what I hear you don't need all wheels driven all the time when on normal roads, only on muddy or slippery ground. They also seem to attract higher vehicle excise duty.
Hi
The love affair with the 4x4 tow car is very much a UK thing. By comparison if you look at a Continental European caravan market the the most caravanner's do not use 4x4's. They find normal 2 wheel drive vehicles to be quite adequate.
In reality even here in the UK the vast majority of 4x4 owners if they where honest have never actually needed to use the 4WD to cope with the conditions they find.
In the UK, we tend to load our caravans with more luxury goods which means our caravans may be heavier than the same length of continental vans, and that means we also need heavier tow cars. In general 4x4's weigh more than their 2wd equivalents. This gives the owner a greater choice when it comes to matching caravans.
There are alternatives, If you are looking at a 4x4, then also consider if a People carrier or a large car might not be a better bet. Generally they will have lower running costs, yet they provide the towing capacity.
I'm not anti 4x4's but I do believe in looking at what you nheed to get the job done. Consider that most caravanners only tow for less than 5% of the year (Either time or mileage) and do you want the higher running costs a 4x4 for 95% of the year? In terms of comfort, performance and convenience, large cars and people carriers usually win hands down.
Ultimately its personal choice, but I do urge you think seriously before jumping with blinkers into the world of 4x4s when you might not need to.
The love affair with the 4x4 tow car is very much a UK thing. By comparison if you look at a Continental European caravan market the the most caravanner's do not use 4x4's. They find normal 2 wheel drive vehicles to be quite adequate.
In reality even here in the UK the vast majority of 4x4 owners if they where honest have never actually needed to use the 4WD to cope with the conditions they find.
In the UK, we tend to load our caravans with more luxury goods which means our caravans may be heavier than the same length of continental vans, and that means we also need heavier tow cars. In general 4x4's weigh more than their 2wd equivalents. This gives the owner a greater choice when it comes to matching caravans.
There are alternatives, If you are looking at a 4x4, then also consider if a People carrier or a large car might not be a better bet. Generally they will have lower running costs, yet they provide the towing capacity.
I'm not anti 4x4's but I do believe in looking at what you nheed to get the job done. Consider that most caravanners only tow for less than 5% of the year (Either time or mileage) and do you want the higher running costs a 4x4 for 95% of the year? In terms of comfort, performance and convenience, large cars and people carriers usually win hands down.
Ultimately its personal choice, but I do urge you think seriously before jumping with blinkers into the world of 4x4s when you might not need to.
It really does depend what sort of car you want, taking ALL your needs into account - many buyers are moving away from conventional hatchbacks and buying "lifestyle Crossovers" which look like SUVs but aren't - 90% are 2wd and some don't even have a 4wd option.
You only "need" 4wd if you take the caravan onto muddy or wet grassy fields, which these days are just rally fields, a handful of small commercials and the smaller, quieter CL/CS 5-van sites - that's unless you buy a monster caravan that can only be towed by an equally monster towcar - but even big 4x4s like Range Rovers have come down in weight in recent versions.
You only "need" 4wd if you take the caravan onto muddy or wet grassy fields, which these days are just rally fields, a handful of small commercials and the smaller, quieter CL/CS 5-van sites - that's unless you buy a monster caravan that can only be towed by an equally monster towcar - but even big 4x4s like Range Rovers have come down in weight in recent versions.
Thanks for the info, all this talk is helping me to be guided to the right purchase for my needs, requirements. I think I've found the correct van for me which is the LUNAR LEXON 640 RS 2008 model, 4 berth, but its really only 2 travelling, but I want living space and a large end washroom so that's why I've chosen that model. Now all I need to do is find the ideal tow car, the MTPLM is 1500kg, Don't know the MIRO though but I guess I could pack the van to be less than the 1500kg right? I'm getting the hang of this and starting to understand, This caravan is a twin axle, I felt that I wanted to feel more secure when travelling on motorways and that the twin axle design would be a much more stable option, but what do I know I'm just a novice, But I still need to make decisions or I wont get anywhere, Anyway, getting back to the Ideal Tow Car, Any suggestions? Preferably something easy on fuel and low insurance group yet strong enough to pull this van.
Parksy
Moderator
The Kia Sorrento that you mentioned as one of your choices isn't actually a 4wd car, it has awd or all wheel drive but is normally front wheel drive only unless the sensors detect wheel slippage which automatically switches to awd.
I tow a fairly heavy twin axle (t/a) caravan with a large diesel powered 4x4 but as Prof John mentioned, I rarely use 4wd except in bad weather or on muddy pitches, more often than not to drag motorhomes or fwd cars towing caravans out of the mire on rally fields or rustic 5 van sites.
A t/a caravan is no guarantee of stability, we read about more than enough of them coming to grief for a variety of reasons although I do agree with you about the amount of space available for two people in a t/a fixed bed / end washroom model.
Correct and careful loading, good tyres on the car and the caravan at the correct pressures and a noseweight fairly close to the legal maximum will help to keep your caravan shiny side up whether its a twin or a single axle model.
Sensible driving techniques, allowing plenty of time for your journey with due regard for road and weather conditions will also help.
I tow a fairly heavy twin axle (t/a) caravan with a large diesel powered 4x4 but as Prof John mentioned, I rarely use 4wd except in bad weather or on muddy pitches, more often than not to drag motorhomes or fwd cars towing caravans out of the mire on rally fields or rustic 5 van sites.
A t/a caravan is no guarantee of stability, we read about more than enough of them coming to grief for a variety of reasons although I do agree with you about the amount of space available for two people in a t/a fixed bed / end washroom model.
Correct and careful loading, good tyres on the car and the caravan at the correct pressures and a noseweight fairly close to the legal maximum will help to keep your caravan shiny side up whether its a twin or a single axle model.
Sensible driving techniques, allowing plenty of time for your journey with due regard for road and weather conditions will also help.
Oh, so on a 4x4 you can actually turn it off to be a fwd and only use 4wd when needed? I Didn't know that but come to think of it, years ago I've worked in garages where I was a car valeter and driven many models small and large, and if I remember correctly the Kia 4x4 had a second gear shifter next to the gear stick, is that the 4x4 controls? And if its only in fwd does that help with fuel?
I've never seen the point in twin axle caravan expect for the really long ones.
Twice as many tyres and wheels equal cost and weight.
My 1565kg caravan at around 24' long only has one, some are 1700kg on one axle.
I believe the early Sorentos did have a transfer box to select lower ratios, and was highly thought of as a tow car, I recall some auto versions only had a 80kg nose weight limit so I would avoid them, along with the smaller Kia.
The Kuga has a nose weight limit of 100kg.
For a novice its recommended that a 85% ratio is used.
Twice as many tyres and wheels equal cost and weight.
My 1565kg caravan at around 24' long only has one, some are 1700kg on one axle.
I believe the early Sorentos did have a transfer box to select lower ratios, and was highly thought of as a tow car, I recall some auto versions only had a 80kg nose weight limit so I would avoid them, along with the smaller Kia.
The Kuga has a nose weight limit of 100kg.
For a novice its recommended that a 85% ratio is used.
Parksy
Moderator
I think that Kia's are fwd and the awd engages automatically without having to be selected.Lonesome-Whizkid said:Oh, so on a 4x4 you can actually turn it off to be a fwd and only use 4wd when needed? I Didn't know that but come to think of it, years ago I've worked in garages where I was a car valeter and driven many models small and large, and if I remember correctly the Kia 4x4 had a second gear shifter next to the gear stick, is that the 4x4 controls? And if its only in fwd does that help with fuel?
On a conventional 4x4 like a Land Rover Discovery or my Mitsubishi 4wd is selectable and the 2wd is normally rear wheel.
A 4wd vehicle towing a t/a caravan is always going to cost more in fuel to run, on average I am lucky to get 22mpg on motorways and somewhat less on trunk roads when towing in 2wd.
This figure doesn't improve much on short journeys without the caravan, solo on motorways can be around 28mpg with care.
4x4 ownership is not cheap! :dry:
Hello Whizkid,
In a couple of post you have referred to being a novice caravanner. this suggests you may be a younger member, and that raises another possible issue to be considered. Your driving licence.
If you passed your driving test after Jan 1997 then your basic licence only entitles you to drive a car or outfit with a MAM not exceeding 3500Kg (Catagory B)
MAM stands for Maximum Authorised Mass. The importance of this it only looks at the maximum weights and does not consider partial loading. This means it looks as the caravan MTPLM and the cars Gross vehicle weight.
Another aspect of Cat B entitlement is that the cars unladen weight must not be less than the caravans MTPLM.
Unfortunately most large cars with an ULW of of 1500Kg plus will have a GVW in excess of 2000kg which means the combined MAM exceeds the Cat B limit of 3500kg.
The solution is to take the 'E' extension test to brings the post 97 test up to the pre 97 Cat BE.
In a couple of post you have referred to being a novice caravanner. this suggests you may be a younger member, and that raises another possible issue to be considered. Your driving licence.
If you passed your driving test after Jan 1997 then your basic licence only entitles you to drive a car or outfit with a MAM not exceeding 3500Kg (Catagory B)
MAM stands for Maximum Authorised Mass. The importance of this it only looks at the maximum weights and does not consider partial loading. This means it looks as the caravan MTPLM and the cars Gross vehicle weight.
Another aspect of Cat B entitlement is that the cars unladen weight must not be less than the caravans MTPLM.
Unfortunately most large cars with an ULW of of 1500Kg plus will have a GVW in excess of 2000kg which means the combined MAM exceeds the Cat B limit of 3500kg.
The solution is to take the 'E' extension test to brings the post 97 test up to the pre 97 Cat BE.
Hi ProfJohn,
I'm 38, I passed my driving test in 1994 and i have not a BE on my licence but a B+E, Is that the same thing?
I'm 38, I passed my driving test in 1994 and i have not a BE on my licence but a B+E, Is that the same thing?
Some cars are permanent 4wd like the discovery,X5 and ML for example and normally run a 40/60 split, clever electronics distribute the power around the 4 wheels when they lose traction.
Parksy
Moderator
B+E is the same thing and will allow you to tow pretty much all commonly available combinations.Lonesome-Whizkid said:
Hi xtrailman,
Had a look at the specifications to the kuga, nice ride, Matched it up with a bailey pageant bretagne 2006 Single axle, same length as the lunar lexon 640 RS , has a MTPLM of 1409kg so it came in at a perfect 85%, Do you know what the bailey caravans are like? seem to also be lighter than other models? Has a MIRO of 1185kg and a payload of 224kg and you said the kuga has a max noseweight of 100kg? the kuga has a max towing capacity of 2100kg. slightly higher insurance group for the kuga group though. Is the kuga a better make than the kia?
Had a look at the specifications to the kuga, nice ride, Matched it up with a bailey pageant bretagne 2006 Single axle, same length as the lunar lexon 640 RS , has a MTPLM of 1409kg so it came in at a perfect 85%, Do you know what the bailey caravans are like? seem to also be lighter than other models? Has a MIRO of 1185kg and a payload of 224kg and you said the kuga has a max noseweight of 100kg? the kuga has a max towing capacity of 2100kg. slightly higher insurance group for the kuga group though. Is the kuga a better make than the kia?
Some will say yes, some will say no.Lonesome-Whizkid said:
After 4 years of owning a Hyundai (Kia's all use Hyundai underpinnings as they're the same group) I'd say they're at least as good as Ford or Vauxhall but probably not up to Toyota or VW - YET!
Remember the long warranties - 5-years unlimited mileage for Hyundai and 7-years 100,000 miles for Kia - there are lower limits on wear/tear parts but even those are higher than other brands.
Lonesome-Whizkid said:
Talking individual tow cars rather than generalizing, I would suggest you read these owner comments.
http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/page/towcar-reviews/_/ford/
http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/page/towcar-reviews/_/kia/
Only one Sportage reviewed though three Kuga, which perhaps hints at it popularity.?
In the latest Autoexpress driver power Old Kuga is placed 108, Sportage from 2010 is 72, the latter scores low for performance and handling.
Yeti, and superb all get good tow car results and dominate the driver power results, have you considered one?
Thanks for the info, Had a look at the yeti and superb, good fuel consumption in MPG but I really like the idea of a 7 year, 100,000 mile warranty from Kia, Means I'll have no expensive repair bills for the best part of a decade.
Yes I was actively looking at buying one myself along with a Toyota that carries a 5 year warranty, but was unable to find a car I wanted.
I have read some negative posts about the 7 year warranty, so I would check exactly what is covered.
Also looked at Skoda myself but couldn't see the attraction.
I have read some negative posts about the 7 year warranty, so I would check exactly what is covered.
Also looked at Skoda myself but couldn't see the attraction.
Mel
Moderator
We used to have a Sante Fe which would also have towed 1550kg. This was 2wd but had a button that you pressed to put it into 4wd when necessary. Nice car, although OH prefers the Freelander2 that we have now.
mel
mel
Thank you all for your posts, Highly appreciated! Is quite a lot to take in and learn. One bit at a time i guess.
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