First time Caravanner, Packing & Storing advice

[Dustydog]

If I am right, they changed the way payload was defined fairly recently. omething about MIRO didnt include a batterry but the payload allowed for one. Try checking the very front of your manual, there may be a list, there is in mine, and this list could vary depending on the age of the caravan. Its a bit odd really, because changing it didnt alter the payload one iota.

This is an article regarding this
http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/industry/miro-and-payload-allowance-changes-for-2011-caravans-$21378052.htm

Good post Thingy.
The latest Bailey handbook says:
A: MRO (formerly MIRO) stands for Mass in Running Order, this is effectively the weight of the caravan or motorhome as it leaves the factory with no additions. Please note; within the MRO is an allowance for 'essential habitation equipment' ( ie: gas bottle and its contents, toilet flush fluids and mains hook-up cable ) All items listed under ‘product specification’ are included in the MRO.
MTPLM stands for the Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass (pre-1998 this was known as MGW maximum gross weight) this is the maximum weight a leisure vehicle can weigh inclusive of the user payload.
User Payload: If you take the MTPLM minus the MRO this will give you your user payload. This is the maximum weight that can be put inside your leisure vehicle when towing it or driving it.
Note the change to MRO. As you said it makes no difference . I expect there are differences between manufacturers but interesting to note Bailey’s take. So contrary to what I and others believed from years ago things have changed in terms of the MRO at point of leaving the factory.

 

[Raywood]

I have to agree that weighing it is the best idea, as all manufacturers say that there is a tolerance of plus or minus a few percent, not sure if they are all the same. There have been posts on the forums of caravans weighing far more than the brochure figure some to the extent that they had little or no payload availability.

 

[Thingy]

As I understand it, they used to allow for a battery, and that allowance has been removed from MIRO, and the MIRO lowered to account for this. The MTPLM should remain the same hence making no difference to the user payload.

In reality its a good move, as the battery I have just fitted is a good 9kn heavier than its predecessor. Had that been original equipment, I would have inadvertantly altered the figures.

SWIFT state

Mass in Running Order (MIRO)
The weight of a caravan ready for the road, without personal effects is called the Mass in Running Order (MIRO). Changes to how this is calculated took place in 2010, so depending when your chosen caravan was built will depend which rules apply.

 

[CustardAvenger]

.... and when travelling back and forth don't forget to take the glass microwave dish out so it doesn't come flying out when you are driving ; we wrap up ours in a tea towel and put it in a drawer .

The online retailer who make and sell "bags for everything" will flog you a microwave plate bag for about 10 quid. I found a bubble wrap bag in my box of bubble wrap which does the job for the price of whatever was delivered in said bubble wrap! Keeps it secure it in the microwave; I just put the turntable ring on top of the bag.

 

[Craigyoung]

.... and when travelling back and forth don't forget to take the glass microwave dish out so it doesn't come flying out when you are driving ; we wrap up ours in a tea towel and put it in a drawer .

The online retailer who make and sell "bags for everything" will flog you a microwave plate bag for about 10 quid. I found a bubble wrap bag in my box of bubble wrap which does the job for the price of whatever was delivered in said bubble wrap! Keeps it secure it in the microwave; I just put the turntable ring on top of the bag.

A microwave plate bag ! I've never heard of such a thing , but there will be nuggets out there who buy these things from accessories shops that see something and think "I need that" !!
Rubbish to that like ! a tea towel does the same thing !!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm not sure why the caravan industry makes such a melodrama about quotieng caravan weights, Too many fingers in the pie

If they stuck the consistemnt trannsport terminology it would be far simpler for all.

For example, The caravan industry towing weight guidance refers toteh tow vehicles Kerb weights, which does not have to appear in the vehicle specification where as UnLaden Mas (ULM) does. I know they are not quite the same thing but at least ULW is consistent in definition everywhere.

The same should apply to caravans them selves MTPLM - ULM (which should be measuerd on exit of the factory) = Loading Margin. How the consumer uses that margin is up to them, but it should be clear that all items after the caravan leaves the factory form part of the user loading margin, including dealer added items which the dealer should provide information about. The emphasisi shold be moved to reminiding the all up weight of teh caravan should not exceed the MTPLM.

 

[Thingy]

We always carry tea towels, for my use of course :blink: , so we simply wrap ours in a tea towel and stick it under the cooker. Saves carrying anything extra. Little weight I know, but using the same principal for lots of things can be a weight saver.

Thats the trick, double up on the use of everything.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Prof,
Strange that here we are in the 21st century and there is still no consistency between the manufacturers regarding weight definitions hmy:
BTW are your fingers ok

 

[otherclive]

If I am right, they changed the way payload was defined fairly recently. omething about MIRO didnt include a batterry but the payload allowed for one. Try checking the very front of your manual, there may be a list, there is in mine, and this list could vary depending on the age of the caravan. Its a bit odd really, because changing it didnt alter the payload one iota.

This is an article regarding this
http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/industry/miro-and-payload-allowance-changes-for-2011-caravans-$21378052.htm

Good post Thingy.
The latest Bailey handbook says:
A: MRO (formerly MIRO) stands for Mass in Running Order, this is effectively the weight of the caravan or motorhome as it leaves the factory with no additions. Please note; within the MRO is an allowance for 'essential habitation equipment' ( ie: gas bottle and its contents, toilet flush fluids and mains hook-up cable ) All items listed under ‘product specification’ are included in the MRO.
MTPLM stands for the Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass (pre-1998 this was known as MGW maximum gross weight) this is the maximum weight a leisure vehicle can weigh inclusive of the user payload.
User Payload: If you take the MTPLM minus the MRO this will give you your user payload. This is the maximum weight that can be put inside your leisure vehicle when towing it or driving it.
Note the change to MRO. As you said it makes no difference . I expect there are differences between manufacturers but interesting to note Bailey’s take. So contrary to what I and others believed from years ago things have changed in terms of the MRO at point of leaving the factory.

Strange that Bailey include toilet fluids at point of leaving the factory. When I contacted Swift re my caravan fluids were not included in the MRO. Again inconsistency which only serves to confuse beginners and experienced alike.

 

[Dustydog]

Very true Clive. MIRO or MRO :S

 

[RayS]

Not scientific,but if you are buying a new caravan and there is a no cost option to upgrade the weight, and you have a towcar giving a legally acceptable combination (opening another can of worms) go for it.
If you plan to keep the caravan for any length of time you never know what additional loads may be necessary in future e.g. mobility aids (for which the additional weight will be known), boxes of vitamin and food supplements due OH sudden intensest in nutrition (when it won't but will be more than you think), changes to awnings, reclining chairs, windbreaks, tools to fit the above etc.etc.
Then there's the return trip, especially from Europe. Given the price difference between UK and Spain for the same bottle of OH favourite Cava is in the region of £4.50, there will be the temptation to push the higher weight to the limit. (Note, car storage for last item is not available as reserved for vino tinto for me.)

 

[Hutch]

U

Not scientific,but if you are buying a new caravan and there is a no cost option to upgrade the weight, and you have a towcar giving a legally acceptable combination (opening another can of worms) go for it.
If you plan to keep the caravan for any length of time you never know what additional loads may be necessary in future e.g. mobility aids (for which the additional weight will be known), boxes of vitamin and food supplements due OH sudden intensest in nutrition (when it won't but will be more than you think), changes to awnings, reclining chairs, windbreaks, tools to fit the above etc.etc.
Then there's the return trip, especially from Europe. Given the price difference between UK and Spain for the same bottle of OH favourite Cava is in the region of £4.50, there will be the temptation to push the higher weight to the limit. (Note, car storage for last item is not available as reserved for vino tinto for me.)

Rays, your so true, my first 3 years of caravanning, I didnt take much notice of towing weights, nose weights etc , until We upgraded to a very expensive new caravan, and were travelling to France every 12 weeks. . Looked into a lot more. Now have fitted my lasr Xmas present a Tyrepall Temp and pressure sensor. I find caravanning much nicer when I have my caravan at a good, towing weight.

 

[thosoneill]

Folks I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit so why the panic over MPTLM would the caravan suddenly disintegrate if we loaded the caravan with a few extra bits and bobs - I understand the requirement for a compatible tow car and the importance of tyres pressures etc etc

 

[Dodger524]

Folks I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit so why the panic over MPTLM would the caravan suddenly disintegrate if we loaded the caravan with a few extra bits and bobs - I understand the requirement for a compatible tow car and the importance of tyres pressures etc etc

Probably not but it rather depends just how much your few extra bits and bobs weigh; I suspect far more than you imagine.

I have recently gone through the weighing and up-plating exercise in an effort to stay legal and wrote a short piece about it here.

We have since decided to dispense with the roll-out awning and carry a porch awning in our car in order to free-up another 20Kg of luggage allowance in the caravan.

 

[otherclive]

Folks I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit so why the panic over MPTLM would the caravan suddenly disintegrate if we loaded the caravan with a few extra bits and bobs - I understand the requirement for a compatible tow car and the importance of tyres pressures etc etc

I was pulled over a few years back and escorted to a DVSA inspection station. Car and van were given a real going over and being a “ regular outfit” it was okay.

I think that your approach verges on the irresponsible in advising users to go over MTPLM. Do you know the weighed weight of your caravan and it’s contents? Have you taken it to a weighbridge. My last van had a MTPLM of 1400 kg and maximum axle load of 1400 kg, and a combined tyre load index maximum of 1420 kg. I defy anyone to calculate their weight within that level of accuracy and tyre pressures don’t really come into your argument other than like the car they should be matched to the load.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Folks I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit so why the panic over MPTLM would the caravan suddenly disintegrate if we loaded the caravan with a few extra bits and bobs - I understand the requirement for a compatible tow car and the importance of tyres pressures etc etc

(Added during Edit )You "I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit " so that means occasionally you have seen it. so you admit there is a chance it may be detected.

Drivers should be aware of how you load your vehicles and ensure they comply with the regulations. No one is above the law. Those that choose to ignore the law deserves to be caught and prosecuted.

Exceeding weight limits can render your insurance or driving license invalid, why risk it?

 

[CustardAvenger]

Folks I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit so why the panic over MPTLM would the caravan suddenly disintegrate if we loaded the caravan with a few extra bits and bobs - I understand the requirement for a compatible tow car and the importance of tyres pressures etc etc

Probably not but it rather depends just how much your few extra bits and bobs weigh; I suspect far more than you imagine.

I have recently gone through the weighing and up-plating exercise in an effort to stay legal and wrote a short piece about it here.

We have since decided to dispense with the roll-out awning and carry a porch awning in our car in order to free-up another 20Kg of luggage allowance in the caravan.

I have a similar spreadsheet detailing every item and it's weight, which is permanently in the caravan. Even down to 5g for a spare tennis ball for the dog.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Folks I seldom witness the authorities pulling over a regular looking outfit so why the panic over MPTLM would the caravan suddenly disintegrate if we loaded the caravan with a few extra bits and bobs - I understand the requirement for a compatible tow car and the importance of tyres pressures etc etc

Probably not but it rather depends just how much your few extra bits and bobs weigh; I suspect far more than you imagine.

I have recently gone through the weighing and up-plating exercise in an effort to stay legal and wrote a short piece about it here.

We have since decided to dispense with the roll-out awning and carry a porch awning in our car in order to free-up another 20Kg of luggage allowance in the caravan.

I have a similar spreadsheet detailing every item and it's weight, which is permanently in the caravan. Even down to 5g for a spare tennis ball for the dog.

The method of using a spread sheet has a lot of merit, but I do urge a little caution about relying on it . Its only as good as the diligence used to weigh every item that you put in the caravan. Most people are quite surprised at how the little thing add up, so what about the few items you may have missed, the maps, boxes of tissues, magazines, etc etc etc.

But it is a useful tool, as it can help point out the danger of someone wanting to take a few extra things and how it might affect the legality of your outfit.

If you are stopped and weighed, having the list will show that you have at least tried to comply, and your less likely to be prosecuted for being over loaded, and more likely just allowed to move a few items to the car.

But the other thing to bear in mind, is that there is often a discrepancy between measuring every item and adding it together compared to just measuring all the items at the same time. This can be due to the resolution and accuracy of the weighing apparatus, and mathematical rounding of figures. It best to round up not down.

 

[thosoneill]

I think that your approach verges on the irresponsible in advising users to go over MTPLM. Do you know the weighed weight of your caravan and it’s contents?

Certainly not advocating that users exceed the MPTLM - however I do see how my thread could be construed otherwise - I’ve never been to a weighbridge and I’ve never weighed the items in my caravan - this is an issue I will definitely have to address

 

[otherclive]

My spreadsheet allows for a variety of trips. Such as short winter break to two week heatwave break. I use it every time we go on a trip and make a trip specific copy of it to carry with my other documents.

I was surprised at how accurate we had got our weighted inventory when I allocated a caravans 250 kg payload fir a short trip to the Beacons. Just outside Brecon is a public weighbridge. Had the van weighed and it came out not far off 1230kg. Problem was it had a MTPLM of 1000 kg. I had been using the previous owners data and a makers brochue which stated. MRO 740kg. Therefore my estimated and weighed payload at 250 kg wasn’t far off. Unfortunately the van was a bit of a hybrid in that the during the 2008 downturn the makers had started an upgraded bodywork and fittings but hadn’t upgraded the chassis or axle. In addition the importer had added things like fridge, hot water and heating. So it’s MRO was about a battery/gas bottle less than MTPLM.

Being French it didn’t have the standard makers tally plate near the door. All it had was data on the A frame. Noseweight, MTPLM, axle. MRO wasn’t stated.

It towed very well no bobbing about at all :-(

PS Edit. The tyres were new Kenda Kargo Pro with more than adequate LI to accept the overladen weight. I’m a bit paranoid where tyres are concerned Although I must admit I didn’t quite have the intended load margin for the trip home. It’s incredibly difficult to put an extra 250 kg in the car especially without compromising its axle load. Catch 22.