Flood Plains

[colin(bridgend)]

I have full sympathy for the victims of the flood. However who would buy a house knowing it has been built on a flood plain? There are a few questions that must be answered:

(1) How is planning permission granted for development on flood plains. Surely the local authority can be held responsible?

(2) Why aren't the rivers, streams and water ditches cleaned out of silt and not allowed to fill up and flood. Prior to the late 1960s. The Glamorgan River Board, as it was then known, employed crane drivers to clean out the river beds and streams on a regular basis. Water ditches were cleaned by hand. Why isn't this work now being done. The water courses are being allowed to silt up and flood.

(3) From previous experiences eg Bocastle, Lyme Regis, etc. surely lessons were learnt to clean the water courses and to erect natural barriers to the river bank to prevent flooding.

If I was affected by the flooding I would certainly be asking these questions and expect a logical answer and not a political answer. (Retired Building Surveyor with a little knowledge of planning laws). Colin

 

[ThePlotter]

Where I live there is a river at the bottom of my garden which came part way into the garden last week but this was the first time in 36 years,the flood plain is on the other side.

The Environment agency take the position that they object to all application to build on flood plains but that doesm't prevent the planners giving the go ahead.The government this week said they do not have a problem with such building and will continue to do so because of the ned for housing(which would be far less if they controlled immigration)

In some ways it is not alwys the houses on the flood plain that is at risk but those upstream that flood as those on the flood plain create a pinch point.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

On this topic what I find amazing is the governments money given to local authorities to help the flood victims. The councils have told those with insurance cover that they will get no cash - the handouts are for those who were irresponsible enough not to bother with insurance. What a message to send out to those who acted as responsibe citizens but isn't this just typical in this country.

 

[harry_374244037]

All down to cost i'm afraid .. the government have other things to pay for first ... war , immigration , benefits ..... need i go on ?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

All down to cost i'm afraid .. the government have other things to pay for first ... war , immigration , benefits ..... need i go on ?

I suppose the millions it's costing for translators or the millions to print translated leaflets all come under immigration.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

If the Environment Agency were to dredge out the build up of many years of silt in the water course surely the water would flow better and be less likely to flood. For what reson did they stop doing this in the late 1960s - don't say financial as they have plenty of government money thrown at them.

 

[Moonstone1]

Hull was flooded 4 weeks ago - almost all of Hull is on a flood plain and below sea level. How does a city expand if not building here. Although I must say, the flooding here was not caused by rivers breaking their banks but by excessive rain over 3 days. I also agree that the hand-outs for non insured persons are a slap in the face for all the responsible people who DID insure - won't bother next time!

 

[colin(bridgend)]

On a lighter note without sounding selfish "The hills of south Wales are alive with the sound of music" ie there is no flooding in south Wales.

 

[Bri2]

Colin,

All this can be answered very very simply.

Profit, Profit, Profit and good old Avarice....

Need one say more?????

Brian

 

[jinty0_0]

Colin,

All this can be answered very very simply.

Profit, Profit, Profit and good old Avarice....

Need one say more?????

Brian

we had a visit from the flood provention officer last week as we have been suffering from flooding in tha last few yrs and also some people further down i had to laugh at his decision to put a cctv camera in to monitor the amount of water running past our front door and then they will loook at a way of solving the problem (why bolt the door after the horse has fled).

 

[jinty0_0]

we had a visit from the flood provention officer last week as we have been suffering from flooding in the last few yrs and also some people further down road, i had to laugh at his decision to put a cctv camera in to monitor the amount of water running past our front door and then they will loook at a way of solving the problem (why bolt the door after the horse has fled).

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

My in-laws were recently served with a notice from their council that they had blocked a drainage ditch running through The end of theIR large garden and had caused flooding.

Having lived in the house for over thirty years this camE as a surprise to them, after weeks of ignored phone calls and emails to the council that lead to calls to the Environment agency the council representatives visited the property and agreed that there was no drainage ditch in theirs and their neighbours property.

According to ageing maps from the 1800's in the council records there were drainage ditches all around the area.

The problem they had linked to my in-laws property was caused by a land drainage pipe from properties built in the late 60'S directed to where there was a ditch over 150 years ago.

Questioning the council officials, father in-law found that the council had given planning permission for the pipe that runs to know where and ends 300 metres from a drainage system that has been redundant for over 50 years according to a few locals that still live in the village.

The council have offered no apology for a letter that threatened forced entry by the council, reinstatement of a ditch by a contractor of their choice with the bill to be paid by my ageing in-laws or be taken to court.

Working with others who've received similar orders from the council it appears that recent minor flooding has been caused by the council own planning department who have failed to take into account drainage ditches and former water courses since the 1950's when granting planning permission.

The council will now pay for land drainage pipes to be installed in parts of the area when their budget allows!

Ria

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

We in this country aren't the only ones to be bothered by officialdom and bureacracy regarding flooding as can be seen by the follow letter and it's response ....

This is a copy of an actual letter sent to Ryan DeVries, from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, State of Michigan. Wait till you read this guy's response - but read the entire letter before you get to the response.

Mr. Ryan DeVries

2088 Dagget Pierson, MI 49339 SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20;

Site Location: Montcalm County

Dear Mr. DeVries:

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:

Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond.

A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted.

The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 2002.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely, David L. Price District Representative Land and Water Management Division

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RESPONSE:

Dear Mr. Price,

Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County

Reference your certified letter dated 12/17/2000 has been referred to me to respond to. First of all, Mr. Ryan De Vries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan.

I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond.

While I did not pay for, authorize, nor supervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris." I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity. My first dam question to you is:

(1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers? or,

(2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request?

If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act I request completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of P! art 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.3010,1 to

324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated. I have several concerns. My first concern is aren't the beavers entitled to legal representation?

The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said representation - so the State will have to provide them with a lawyer.

The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is a natural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harrass them and call their dam names. If you want the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition - please contact the beavers - but if you are going to arrest them they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter (being unable to read English).

In my humble ! opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam right than I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources

(Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams).

So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait until

1/31/2002 The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then, and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a real environmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears. Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone.

If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!)

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your answering machine, I am sending this response to your office via another government organization - the USPS. Maybe, someday, it will get there.

Sincerely, Stephen L. Tvedten The University of Texas at: Austin Office Community Relations/Accounting unit P.O. Box 7367 Austin, TX 78713

 

[LadyMo]

Lord B,

Where did you find this gem of an article??

I nearly fell off my seat laughing.

Maureen

 

[LadyMo]

we had a visit from the flood provention officer last week as we have been suffering from flooding in the last few yrs and also some people further down road, i had to laugh at his decision to put a cctv camera in to monitor the amount of water running past our front door and then they will loook at a way of solving the problem (why bolt the door after the horse has fled).

Jane,

We have had over 40 years of sewer flooding around the house due to a totally inadequate main sewer outside our property.This has been admitted in writing. Each local authority pled poverty so we meekly put up with it.However,after our local MSP took the matter up with Scottish Water plus many meetings with water board officials we received a phone call 2 weeks ago to say that we are getting a new sewer!!with work beginning next March. To say that I was elated is an understatement.At the moment every time there is heavy rain I am at the window.Take your own photos Jane,and keep every bit of correspondence.....we were told at one point that there was no record of any problems.I then photocopied 40 years worth of material and sent it to them to digest !!!

Maureen

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

A friend in Yankeeland sent it me a long time ago Maureen and when the flooding subject came up I recalled it. I put a search in Google *dam beaver letter* and there it was.