Floods and stupid drivers

May 21, 2008
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It all started when we had to leave Ripple by Jcn 1 M50 to travel the 35 miles home to Leominster, which normally takes about 1 hour.

Not on Friday.

First knowledge to us was at 3pm when our lorry driver turned up and said that the village was flooded and he'd only just got through. This was despite us having local radio on all day. All the radio was stating was concerning Hereford and the flooding of the main long stay carpark.

So we decided to pack the kit in the van and leave asap. Our trusty battered Fiat Ducatto burst into life and off we headed for Worcester as the M50 was un-accessable due to floods under the motorway bridge. We only got about 6 miles before we had to turn off towards Pershore due to abandoned vehicles blocking the roads!! Steadily we found deeper and deeper floods but the old girl made it through even two feet of water couldn't stop her.

Finally we got back onto a main road from Pershore to Worcester, but only to be stopped in a huge traffic jam which 2 hours later turned out to be caused by just two abandoned vehicles(cars) just left where they conked. After another hour we got to the now closed M5. Again the volume of traffic was horrendous that was trying to get round the Worcester bypass. So we decided to cut across the city, which was almost deserted and only took 15 mins instead of the usual hour or more.

At last we made it to the A44 heding for Leominster or as we thought!! But yet more chaos due to abandoned vehicles left in the road and a three foot flood. But again the trusty van made it through. Eventually we got to Bromyard and again were stopped in our tracks. The river at the bottom of the bypass had burst it's banks and flooded the mobile home park. We were told by the fire service that the bridge was in danger of collapse and that we could not go over it. I pointed out that they actually had a 16 ton fire engine parked right on top of the bridge but the penny didn't drop.

Then a local engineering company's van came down the outside of us and speed over the bridge. I asked why and was told he was a part time fireman. But I pointed out that he is a civilian until he is in the fire station and so what was good for us was good for him, but that fell on deaf ears.

Of coarse they had not thought of lining up the fire engines to provide a temporary barrier, just incase a car slipped towards the mobile home park and then allowing vehicles one by one to pass. As the bridge could obviously hold their 16 ton fire engine.

So off we toddled again, turning round and heading this time for the Worcester to Hereford road. All went well untill we got to the bottom of Fromes hill!! There was an almighty flood of about 3 feet depth stretching for about 3 to 400 yards. Having already gone through this depth before we decided to give it a go.

About halfway through we met a Toyota 4X4 comming the other way but on our side of the road and he was doing about 30 mph, far too fast to be safe for a start. Then his bow wave and wash hit us. Bearing in mind we werea Fiat ducatto high top van, the water washed right up the windscreen and swamped the engine. Not only that but the force of the water pushed us sideways into the deeper water.

Now what do we do? Matey had buggered off leving us stranded and water was at floor level in the van and she would not start.

Me and my mate got out into the flood water and physically pushed the van weighing at least 2 tons, 150 yards to safety. There we met a chap who had had his car swamped and helped him to push it to the side of the road. A few moments later a Land rover came along and the driver asked us if we were ok. I enquired as to the availability of jump leads but he had none, but to our suprise the car driver did.

So now I stripped off the air filter of the van to get rid of the water in it and we got into action, jump starting the van from the running Landie. After several attempts she burst into a very spluttery life, but never the less, she was running. We let the guy go as he wanted to get to his stranded daughter, and now we set about starting the car. Eventually we got both going.

As we packed away the kit a 4X4 pickup passed us and then proceeded to stop to chat with lorry drivers who were patiently waiting for us to unblock the road.

Now with a diesel engine that resembled a two-stroke motor bike and liable to die at anytime, we came up behind the pickup. Our driver rev'd the engine but no hint was taken. So I jumped out. I walked upto the chap and calmly asked him to move on, but got ignored. So I then asked if he enjoyed a chat, as if he did then if he would like to be able to chat tomorrow then he might just shut up and move on, before I made him a dental appointment!! As we had a van that was only JUST running and we wanted to go home.

Well that's the printable version.

He did move then rather rapidly.

We then managed another 5 miles before our next flood. This time it was about 4 foot deep and not drivable through. But a friendly farmer was on hand with his tractor and was doing a stirling job of towing vehicles through. So we switched off and waited for our turn. Finally we got towed through for no fee and were again on our way.

There ws still more floods to drive through but eventually some six and a half hours and over a hundred miles later we got home.

What amazed me Friday was, the amount of stupidity about. Car drivers who drive through floods with water far too deep and washing over the bonnet. Then abandoning their cars in the middle of the road instead of pushing them to the side. Or even better just not starting to go through floods until they see just how deep it is by watching a high ground clearence vehicle go through.

Then the amount of 4X4 drivers who showed no regard for others and even thought that the floods were their "play ground". On that point it's no suprise to me that other drivers hold little respect or regard for them.

On the other hand. The farmer in his Landrover was a true knight of the road, as was the chap with his tractor. Both of whom, helped others in need without lining their pockets and even when they had a need to get to their family.

While everyone had a place to go and a desire to be at home in the warm, doing it with a bit of thought for others should not fall by the wayside.

We adopted the approach that if we helped others they would help us even to the point of loading our van with pedestrians when we were towed through the flood so that they could get to the other side without having to wade and be a danger for the tractor driver.

Finally our thoughts do go out to those who are still flooded out and staying in village halls throughout the midlands.

Steve L.
 
May 27, 2006
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Your so right Steve with tha way you talk about the antisocial way some 4x4 drivers were behaving in the appaling conditions.

I was taught (on 4x4 off road driving courses by manufacturers) to behave and be considerate of other users on or off the road.

The sights we saw on Friday during our struggles were beyond belief and something I wish never to repeat.

If this weather is a sign of the future its time the whole driving and aiding others was put into a new perspective.

That God for the rescue services and good samaratins who did help others
 
May 12, 2005
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steve,

I used to live in a village that regularly flooded with the spring tides, drivers who drove thruogh the floods where cursed, as the bow waves often pushed water over protecting boards and into the houses. You call others `stupid drivers` you should have stayed at home and checked on road conditions, instead of driving around trying to get through floods when you found them.

Tony A.
 
May 12, 2005
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But thats the point Steve was AT WORK trying to get home!
I take your point catherine, but people in flooded areas still suffer from drivers trying to get through floods ,as if their misery wasn`t bad enough. had all the public transport stopped running? It may have been better to try and plan a route before starting out, or better still stay at work and sleep there.

I`m not in the same situation and don`t know all the facts, but I don`t think I would have started out blind without making a few phone calls to try and establish the situation. the lorry driver started the alarm bells ringing before they started out for home.

Tony A.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Toyota 4x4 doing about 30mph in about 3 feet of water??? Yeah right.

"the amount of 4X4 drivers who showed no regard for others and even thought that the floods were their "play ground"".

You should have taken the plate numbers and reported them to the police.

"On that point it's no suprise to me that other drivers hold little respect or regard for them"

Very nice of you to speak on behalf of all drivers.
 
May 21, 2008
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First of all Tony.

We have work obligations to meet and as such we are on a very tight deadline to construct chicken houses (organic and free range) and as such if the farmer misses his production slot he looses 18 weeks of production. This can be measured in tens of thousands of pounds.

We took the responsable approach and ensured that at all times our radio's were on and tuned into the local stations so that we had specific information to our travel areas. In all we had three local radio stations on air.

Even now today the BBC state that the A417 is closed at Newtown but it is actually wide open and clear to use. We used it to go to work yesterday. but no work today as we have now used all materials available on site.

Now to Michael.

Yes he was doing approx 30Mph and sporting the usual snorkel air intake. You see, I too have had the pleasure of being trained professionally to drive 4X4's in all terrain conditions just like John. (thanks for your support John)

Finally thankyou to the ladies for your words of support and believe me a warm house with a shower and a hot dinner was heaven Friday night.

My heart does realy go out to those who now have to endure weeks/months of misery and upheaval to get their lives back on track.

Lastly. I wonder just how many car, van, 4X4 drivers carry all this kit to deal with emergencies.

First aid kit

Fire extinguisher

Wind up torch

Tow rope & rigid tow bar

Air pump (12v)

Jump leads

6x4ft tarp and elastic straps to drape over front of car for deep water travel.

2 mobile phones (different service providers) and chargers

Can of water repelent

briefcase tool kit

All that kit is carried in our Laguna estate without compromise to luggage space (only exception is thebrief case), it is stowed in side cubbies and in the spare wheel well and all the family know how to find and use it. You see, we live in an area where the weather is not persistantly bad but we do get flash weather situations and they are bad.

Next time your out on the roads just take a long hard look for a phone box, the nearest house that's got people at home, petrol station, farm house. Also check how often your phone signal goes off (not if your the driver). Now think of all of that in a torrential down pour or snow.

My very last word is to all those car or 4X4 twits who think it is playtime when we have adverse weather. DON'T BE SO BLOODY STUPID. You would get more respect if you rolled up your sleeves and helped people.

I'm off now to help my in-laws who are disabled and without transport and my niece in Bromyard who is pergnant and without water for the next week due to the floods. Our aqua rolls are going to get a lot of use and so will the caravan on the drive as we won't need it for a week or two, but someone will be glad of a warm dry place to sleep. The in-laws will be having a holiday at Leominster by the sea.

Steve L.
 
May 12, 2006
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Steve " Lastly. I wonder just how many car, van, 4X4 drivers carry all this kit to deal with emergencies.

First aid kit

Fire extinguisher

Wind up torch

Tow rope & rigid tow bar

Air pump (12v)

Jump leads

6x4ft tarp and elastic straps to drape over front of car for deep water travel.

2 mobile phones (different service providers) and chargers

Can of water repelent

briefcase tool kit

All that kit is carried in our Laguna estate without compromise to luggage space "

What's that to do with someone driving through flooded roads?? Your 12v pump didn't do much to remove the flood water from the sub stations. Do you carry all this kit to bring up the weight of your Laguna so your not towing at over 100%

Val & Frank
 
Aug 25, 2006
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Now you`re being silly, Frank.

Of course the 12v air pump didn`t clear the flood water.

Thats why he carries the can of water repellant spray.

Really!
 
May 21, 2008
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Actually Frank and Angus.

You don't "need" a 4X4 it is often the first thing people fly to if they get stuck in mud or water.

The emergencey kit I have is only the basic level of kit suggested by the Austrailian rescue services for vehicles going outback driving. Now there's a country where if you get stuck you realy are on your own.

As for the weight of the kit, all of that quoted doesn't exceed 35Kgs and as I stated doesn't use any of the boot volume up except for my briefcase tool kit.

Rather than taking the "P" if one had read the list correctly you would of noticed that the 12v pump was an air pump.

That is just in case I have to do my own puncture repair until I can get to a tyre depot.

It is a well known fact that more than 75% of 4X4's don't even get their tyres muddy, but another little know fact is that a well prepared car and trained driver can go as far as a standard 4X4.

Finally a quick copy paste for Frank & Angus. Read these two paragraphs and take a long hard look inwardly.

Next time your out on the roads just take a long hard look for a phone box, the nearest house that's got people at home, petrol station, farm house. Also check how often your phone signal goes off (not if your the driver). Now think of all of that in a torrential down pour or snow.

My very last word is to all those car or 4X4 twits who think it is playtime when we have adverse weather. DON'T BE SO BLOODY STUPID. You would get more respect if you rolled up your sleeves and helped people.

Steve L.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Is this the same Steve in leo that was up my neck of the woods a few months ago? Who readily admitted to doing over 125mph on the motorway, with his farther in law behind in a car they had just collected from Ilkeston, automatic if memory serves me right, and they were just testing it out to make sure all was okay!!! " My very last word is to all those car or 4X4 twits who think it is playtime when we have adverse weather. DON'T BE SO BLOODY STUPID. You would get more respect if you rolled up your sleeves and helped people. "Put your own house in order first Steve before you start preaching to others on how to behave.

Enough said............ Allan & Gill.
 
Aug 25, 2006
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I agree A & G, a little bit of pot calling kettle and self- righteousness?

TBH, I can`t remember when I last DIDN`T have a signal on at least one of the two mobiles (work you know) which are on different networks anywhere in England or Wales ( not done much of Scotland for a while, hopefully will rectify this in September).

Not that I`ve needed them anyway, although I have had to change a tyre once at the roadside following a puncture. Other than that, I`ve never had a problem that I couldn`t either fix at the roadside or get home with (no handbrake, no clutch etc). Not bad for over 800,000 miles. And it`s not all luck.
 
Jun 28, 2007
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Is this the same Steve in leo that was up my neck of the woods a few months ago? Who readily admitted to doing over 125mph on the motorway, with his farther in law behind in a car they had just collected from Ilkeston, automatic if memory serves me right, and they were just testing it out to make sure all was okay!!! " My very last word is to all those car or 4X4 twits who think it is playtime when we have adverse weather. DON'T BE SO BLOODY STUPID. You would get more respect if you rolled up your sleeves and helped people. "Put your own house in order first Steve before you start preaching to others on how to behave.

Enough said............ Allan & Gill.
Bravo

Steve seems to want to have a go at 4x4 drivers and those drivers who abandoned their cars in floods. Yet he is quite happy to brag about his own irresponsible behaviour of negotiating 3ft deep flood waters.

In my mind , doesn't matter what vehicle you drive thats just wrong and dangerous. He could have put the already stretched emergency services at un warrantied risk.
 
May 21, 2008
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Touch'e Alan & Jill.

However as you might of recalled having read that article and extracting just the bits for your affect, which is a good political move. I went to great pains to state that I have been appropriately trained in vehicle handling and like anyone else will use that training but only under the right circumstances. That is after doing an impromptue "risk assessment" and considerind all safety aspects.

As for Roger's suggestion that I was having a pop at 4X4 drivers, he realy has not read the threads fully and like yourselves just picked the "high lights" that suit.

I'll say this very clearly. I am not an anti 4x4 person in any way as those vehicles do have a role to play and in hte right hands any vehicle can prove worthy.

You see I have owned several 4X4's. Where do you think I got the trick of using a tarpaulin draped over the front grill of a car to navigate deep water from.

My bone of contention clearly rest's with those who don't take precautions to try to ensure that if they do go out in adverse weather, they don't become a burden to either other members of the public or the emergencey services.

If you realy want to gripe about irrasponsability then have a go at the idiot in the Toyota surf we met in the flood who had obviously put a deep water kit on his car complete with air intake snorkle, but through his lack of regard for other people's safety and shear desire to "play" with his toy, potentially put the lives of three people at risk.

Yes that was us, but we had already through good preperation travelled over 70 miles through floods that had swamped cars, vans, trucks and 4X4's that were neither prepared or had drivers who had no idea what they were doing.

Finally a "well done" to Angus on his ability to undertake running repairs. There is obviously someone who can be self sufficient and creative in a crisis.

Steve L.
 
May 20, 2006
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Steve, well done, i would have done the same, do not allow criticism for being prepared, I carry the same kit in my car, my job as a father and a husband is to protect my family, this is what you did and i commend you.

You did not criticis 4x4 drivers, only the one that drove like an arse, i love 4x4's and found nothing offensive about your posts.

I am the kind of fella that keeps a torch by the side of the bed incase of power outage, candles in the drawer and a battery radio incase of holocaust . nothing wrong with being prepared.

I enjoyed your story, well done for beating the odds mate.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Steve, I to have had extensive advanced driver training, and I do not wish to go in to detail or to brag on here about it on here. But in all my training I have been taught to respect and observe the LEGAL speed limits for our highways, I think to drive at that speed incognito with another vehicle is highly irresponsible and down right dangerous. And as for the 4x4 driver on the flooded road, he had adopted the correct procedure for driving under those conditions, i.e. creating a bow wave to restrict the water entering his engine compartment (basic off road training) are you sure it was not your superior driver training and attitude that created the problem by entering the flooded stretch of road at the same time, instead of waiting for him to emerge first? Two sides to every story.

Allan & Gill.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Steve, I to have had extensive advanced driver training, and I do not wish to go in to detail or to brag on here about it on here. But in all my training I have been taught to respect and observe the LEGAL speed limits for our highways, I think to drive at that speed incognito with another vehicle is highly irresponsible and down right dangerous. And as for the 4x4 driver on the flooded road, he had adopted the correct procedure for driving under those conditions, i.e. creating a bow wave to restrict the water entering his engine compartment (basic off road training) are you sure it was not your superior driver training and attitude that created the problem by entering the flooded stretch of road at the same time, instead of waiting for him to emerge first? Two sides to every story.

Allan & Gill.
 
Oct 28, 2006
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hello, ive just read this.since when can you compare austraila to the uk.two vital things youve missed ,tyre levers to get tyres of at the road side.serouisly i cant see the point just call one of the breakdown companies.
 
May 21, 2008
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Allan/Jill.

There are certainly two sides to every story. The flood situation for instance. We had entered first and on our side of the highway. The toyota driver came the other way despite us being in the water. I was not the driver of the van.

Now I quite agree with you that the prime role of AIM and ROSPA driver training is to prevent accidents by training drivers to a higher level of driving and hazard perseption skills.

I have been trained beyond the Lotus black license that they are currently offering as part of their Elise purchase package. In my previous job role I test drove cars for Jaguar, Aston Martin and Lotus asmy employer built the chassis for the latter two marques and provided the crash protection technology for Jaguar. To be an approved test driver envolves a very high standard of driver training in first and foremost safety of both yourself and other drivers/pedestrians etc. The you get trained in high speed vehicle handling and finally you go through a vigarous assessment before you are let loose in a vehicle on the track or highway.

I'm sure you'll agree being a "trained" person does not excuse any behaviour on the highway and nobody is above the law. Even any of the emergecey service drivers can be prosecuted for breaking any legislation. Yep even crossing a red traffic light with "Blues and Two's" is not above the law, but done in a controlled proceedure.

As for young Seth.

I can change tyres manually if required but as I carry a spare for both the car and any of my three trailers I tow(kept on the trailer being used), together with most tyre depots being under an hour away from any UK location, I do choose not to include tyre levers.

If you called any of the rescue agencies out (AA, RAC, Green flag) all they would do is ring ATS anyway and at around
 
Oct 28, 2006
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thats fair comment steve,and its nice that you stop for people,i also try to help people.but repairing a puncture to me means just that ,not changing a wheel.also it is now agaist the law to my knoledge to work on the hard shoulder of a motorway,unless correct training is given.i might be wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy or should i say look forwards to problems.and besides the point you,d be mad to travel on a motorway with no spare.
 
Oct 28, 2006
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thats fair comment steve,and its nice that you stop for people,i also try to help people.but repairing a puncture to me means just that ,not changing a wheel.also it is now agaist the law to my knoledge to work on the hard shoulder of a motorway,unless correct training is given.i might be wrong but it seems to me that you enjoy or should i say look forwards to problems.and besides the point you,d be mad to travel on a motorway with no spare.
 
May 21, 2008
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Hi Seth.

Actually I don't enjoy problems but one of my job role's has been a "process Technician" which in plain english is a problem solver. I can go to any company and "hit the floor running" as they say and as one of my clients put in a reference letter, I "lead from the front".

I'd rather of tried to fix a broken down vehicle and failed than just wait for the AA,RAC etc to tow me in. I call it just plain old resorsefullness.

My boat trailer once had a wheel bearinb colapse while on the M5. On jacking the trailer up the whole wheel and hub just fell off. However by doing a quick fix with a large washer I was able to crawl the half mile to the sedgemoor services where I rang the wife's brother who came out with a second hand Mini hub. We had to change the wheel studs as they were for the 1275GT clubman alloy wheels. In under two hours we were on our way. This was much to the amusement of both AA and RAC patrolmen as they both offered me instant membership, but neither had a spare bearing set onboard their van's.

After finishing the job, the RAC man came over and plonked a
 

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