The only power stations they could invest in are nuclear as all other generate carbon dioxide unless you capture and store it. But I agree with you that such high financial risk projects realistically can only be undertaken by governments.
But they did find alternatives.
North Sea Gas and Nuclear, both of which produces less emissions than coal. It wasn't just carbon it was a wide range of emissions that needed to be reduced.
One of the ideas behind the privatisation of the electricity and gas supplies, was the new private companies would fund investments in future resources, but it seems profit was more important that future proofing the country.
Prof said: but it seems profit was more important that future proofing the country.
Sadly that precisely sums up the potential economic danger we have been placed in. I have seen a private wind generator mill providing current to the house. They have a battery storage but sadly also have to switch to the grid when no wind. Maybe all new builds from now should include some form of self generation?
Sadly that precisely sums up the potential economic danger we have been placed in. I have seen a private wind generator mill providing current to the house. They have a battery storage but sadly also have to switch to the grid when no wind. Maybe all new builds from now should include some form of self generation?
Solar panels if the aspect suits, and much improved insulation with provision for battery storage units.
Google the world's current production from coal mines and then tell me this is going to fall to zero any time soon.
Australian coal production is mind boggling massive and even so, it is only the 6th largest in the wold.
I won't mention the world's oil production or the escalating infrastructure to produce LNG and it's distribution system, to make it available anywhere in the world.
You must be looking at 100 years+ .....for new technologies to replace that lot for a credible source of equivalent energy.
Good old UK invented the railways and it is still working on the electrification of the mainline between London and South Wales some 100+ years after railway electrification was perfected.
History proves change takes longer than predicted!
Australian coal production is mind boggling massive and even so, it is only the 6th largest in the wold.
I won't mention the world's oil production or the escalating infrastructure to produce LNG and it's distribution system, to make it available anywhere in the world.
You must be looking at 100 years+ .....for new technologies to replace that lot for a credible source of equivalent energy.
Good old UK invented the railways and it is still working on the electrification of the mainline between London and South Wales some 100+ years after railway electrification was perfected.
History proves change takes longer than predicted!
Personally I think I have made it fairly clear my comments have been about the UK's situation. I know the comments will try to make teh point that teh UK's contribution to teh world greenhouse gasses is insignificant, so why should we try to be cleaner as it won't make much difference. - But that is exactly the point. if an industrialised country like the UK can make it work and to show how it works, then it encourages others to consider the long term benefits.
The UK may not be the first or the best, but there is definitely an increasing number of governments that are making moves in this direction.
Morally if we know there is a better way of using or producing energy we should be moving towards it for out childrens and grandchildrens sake.
The UK may not be the first or the best, but there is definitely an increasing number of governments that are making moves in this direction.
Morally if we know there is a better way of using or producing energy we should be moving towards it for out childrens and grandchildrens sake.
I think in the UK we only have 15 distribution regions with most sourcing from only 6 operators. One of the 15 is in NI.
The companies holding the largest market share in the Electricity Distribution in the UK industry include UK Power Networks Holdings Ltd, Western Power Distribution plc, SSE plc, ScottishPower Ltd, Northern Powergrid Holdings Company and Electricity North West Ltd.
To upgrade the national grid would probably costs in the region of about £30 billion to make it more efficient. TBH I doubt if either the government or distribution companies would want to invest that sort of money. If they did the cost of electric would probably sky rocket making consumers very unhappy.
The companies holding the largest market share in the Electricity Distribution in the UK industry include UK Power Networks Holdings Ltd, Western Power Distribution plc, SSE plc, ScottishPower Ltd, Northern Powergrid Holdings Company and Electricity North West Ltd.
To upgrade the national grid would probably costs in the region of about £30 billion to make it more efficient. TBH I doubt if either the government or distribution companies would want to invest that sort of money. If they did the cost of electric would probably sky rocket making consumers very unhappy.
30 bn over several years isn’t that difficult for the fifth largest economy in the world. They’ve sacrificed 11.2bn 2019-20 by not increasing fuel duties and look at the spend on furlough and dodgy loans that may not be recouped. Say nothing of the Triple Lock. The grid infrastructure could be upgraded over 10 years. So spend per year not that high.Gov spending is 0.01% gdp compared to their own target of 1% required to meet climate targets set by HMG.
In so many areas we talk the talk but dont walk the walk. Save £250 m by forgetting the new National ship. 🚢
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I know that but they've got rid of the coal faster than investing in the better alternatives supposedly leaving us short. Whichever way you look at it not sensible. Of course they risked fines on co2 production so they should have had more foresight and forced investment but I don't know the ins and outs. Just that we've chucked out one form of fire before lighting any others. We could be cold.
However although I did mention government, isn't now the responsibility of the National Grid to invest which I think is privately owned?
TBH I am not entirely sure how these companies are structured as they chop and change so much and whether the government have shares in them or any say on how they should invest.
Whilst national grid is privately owned its targets are set by government and its finances and profits can to a large extent be influenced by goverment in setting it’s targets. So in reality if government is wanting more investment it sets the figures in NGs target. But the consumer pays in the long run via increased energy tariffs or other means of raising finances.
.....you have made your views abundantly clear.
My view is that the contribution that fossil fuels have made to the world economy and subsequent vast improvement in health and living standards is being demonised.
The energy from fossil fuels has fuelled recent vast worldwide population growth and this population won't readily accept any fall in provision to their lifestyles.
Their is an undoubted problem with city pollution and this is where clean up efforts should lie.
Here in the UK to have a blanket countrywide ban on new IC engined cars by 2030 is farcical.
IMO the ban, if it is to be introduced in it's current form, will only be introduced with a myriad of exemptions,
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The ban doesn’t come in until 2035. ICE hybrids are okay from 2030-35.
Your priority to focus on city air pollution. Whilst not nice many cities around the world have successfully dealt with city air pollution even with the existing population of ICE vehicles. So why does this country find it so difficult?
In my mind climate change is by far the largest issue and like it or not fossil fuels contribute massively to that global problem.
I am no expert on the power supply but my nephew is CEO of one of the providers. He is quite clear that the grid can manage the anticipated power needs with more electric cars. Possibly the problem will be getting the number of charging points sorted particularly in areas with no off street parking. and upgrading the mains in areas without off street parking. Possibly we will still need something like the current petrol stations with the same drive through charging layout as petrol stations.
One benefit of EV charging points is that they can be set up almost anywhere where there is a supply. They don't need the stringent safety precautions associated with the transport, delivery and purchase of petrol, diesel and LPG. In Coventry a EV charging point has been set up adjacent to a very small group of shops, so they could pop up virtually anywhere, so the need to find the equivalent of a petrol station will be reduced.
When you say provider are you referring to a supplier or a distribution company? However isn't there a concern about the current cabling to homes that being adequate to handle higher than normal loads. i.e. a cable to an estate with 40 homes is it more than adequate for current use however add on several or more cars being recharged and at the same time the majority of people in the 40 homes switch on their ovens etc.
Will the current cabling still be able to handle the additional loads imposed on it. I would that maybe with more modern estates probably not an issue but on an older estate there may be a problem resulting in the cabling being upgraded. I have no idea of what sort of cabling us used to supply many homes in a street.
Just seen a report on a proposed solution for HGV’s. Instead of massive heavy batteries, they would only have a limited battery supply. When on major roads the driver raises a pantograph to connect to overhead cables in lane 1. Then switch over to the battery to get to their destination.
It is one thing that is being given serious consideration.
Links here.
But in looking for that info I came across this detailed report. 2019 so ancient now. But highlights just what alternatives are being looked at for transportation.
John
It is one thing that is being given serious consideration.
Links here.
But in looking for that info I came across this detailed report. 2019 so ancient now. But highlights just what alternatives are being looked at for transportation.
John
I’ve seen that one along with a similar scheme for trolley buses so the use pantograph fir inner city duties and switch to battery where the economics don’t support the investment in overhead infrastructure. There are modern trolley buses in service in some countries. I posted a picture and link a while back.
I remember the trolley buses as they were still around in the early seventies. When changing lanes the conductor would get off the bus and move the connection to the new pathway. They were quick so no real hold ups. Kept pollution down.
Interesting link however as in the past trolley buses were confined to the inner cities and not outlying suburbs. As long as we have sufficient electric to drive these electric vehicles en mass with every city and town having the infrastructure then it is a way forward, but somehow I doubt it for the next 10-20 years.
The modern ones tend to be able to serve outlying areas. But I really question why this country seems to find infrastructure funding and installation so difficult. When others can do it. Could it be that everything is run against short term profit and return on investment?
I have to say I am in the opposite camp-anyone with a scientific background should be able to see that when the earth was in its infancy in terms of trees and life it was covered in far more water than it is now-this water was laid down in the sediments over millions of years as trees/greenery grew and trapped the carbon-this has rotted under pressure to make various carbon forms of energy -oil/coal/peat etc which we are now burning-releasing this carbon into the atmos is simply reverting the earth ever quickly toward how we were-the film Water World might not be far wrong! Anything anyone can do to reduce these effects is good in my mind-would love to get off oil heating next but that's a whole different ball game and even worse than the EV in terms of inconvenience/expense /complexity.
I feel I have been reading the Eagle Comic ! The proposed rail electrification London To Swansea failed. Only got to Cardiff. Way over budget. I have suggested under road surface induction current systems, similar to the more problematic overhead cabling. My comic science of today will tomorrow be vastly different. Note the “batteries” Will actually form part of the vehicle structure rather than an add on. By 2035? Bill’s right. Not by then. On the green front I am watching Brighton😉
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