Parksy - I worked in further education for 25 years and we often had open days and parent/employer visits as well as HMIs. I can assure you that all divisional managers issued strict instructions to the staff that the College should be shining and that no rubbish/litter/grafiti was to be seen and ALL students had to be seen to be constructively working. The brighter students were appointed as tour guides. After the visit it was back to normal. Prior to the visit it was often thought of as a new department - within a few weeks it was back to the familiar routine.
Parksy
Moderator
Lisa - our first job would be to be selective in our membership as we would not want riff-raff on the forum to upset the status-quo.
"... how about you, myself, Plotter and a few other unwelcomed contributers to a well known caravan forum ..."
Eh? You're out of the loop, Colin, old chap. Plotter is an active member and poster on the "well known caravan forum" as well as his son.
Glad you think it's well known. It must be getting more popular than I thought.
Eh? You're out of the loop, Colin, old chap. Plotter is an active member and poster on the "well known caravan forum" as well as his son.
Glad you think it's well known. It must be getting more popular than I thought.
This thread has gone down the depressingly familiar route ending up with some members posting personal and inflamatory comments aimed at other members.
This cannot continue. We are all in favour of the right to freedom of speech, but not when it is used as an excuse to trade insults, score points or air a grievance, whether with an individual or a company.
Those who engage in this kind of stirring are damaging this forum and it must stop.
DICTIONARY: "Forum:
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation."
By its very nature a 'forum' is a public place for people to air their views, and as every human is different, there will be a multitude of different views expressed.
All views are welcome, respecting the rules (etiquette) of the forum, and everyone has the right to express their views without being ridiculed or insulted.
This cannot continue. We are all in favour of the right to freedom of speech, but not when it is used as an excuse to trade insults, score points or air a grievance, whether with an individual or a company.
Those who engage in this kind of stirring are damaging this forum and it must stop.
DICTIONARY: "Forum:
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation."
By its very nature a 'forum' is a public place for people to air their views, and as every human is different, there will be a multitude of different views expressed.
All views are welcome, respecting the rules (etiquette) of the forum, and everyone has the right to express their views without being ridiculed or insulted.
Parksy - although we did not make caravans we were a college of further education and turning out qualified workers for virtually all vocationl work. The qualified student would end up in industry be it construction, engineering, food technology, etc. so we did have an end product which we would pass on to Joe Public. The nature of the end product is not so important whether it is a car, caravan, wedding cake or what, it is how that product is designed and made that counts and will that product when leaving the workshop serve its purpose and be fit for use for many years.
Plotter was banned at one time - he told me so. As far as being well known I think Hitler, Mugabee, etc. are also well known.
Hi Ken
Thanks for the clarification. I know this is all extra work for you and you do a sterling job.
However, may I ask what are the rules around posts made on here which are clearly racial, homophobic and insult disabled people? Maybe the powers that be should look at including etiquette on those types of posts.
I'd be interested to hear the outcome.
Many thanks.
Lisa
Thanks for the clarification. I know this is all extra work for you and you do a sterling job.
However, may I ask what are the rules around posts made on here which are clearly racial, homophobic and insult disabled people? Maybe the powers that be should look at including etiquette on those types of posts.
I'd be interested to hear the outcome.
Many thanks.
Lisa
Parksy
Moderator
Colin
I was only pulling your leg.
We all care about how products are designed and whether they will be fit for use.
Owners of some Bessacar caravans have had problems and have posted about these specific problems. Some of them have said that the dealer has attempted to rectify these problems, some have said that they wouldn't buy another Bessacar.
These are spcific issues and Swift Group have the right to reply to these issues or not as they so wish.
We can't just let generalities be posted and we can only act as we see things.
This doesn't often coincide with the way that other forum members see things and It's just something that we have to live with.
I was only pulling your leg.
We all care about how products are designed and whether they will be fit for use.
Owners of some Bessacar caravans have had problems and have posted about these specific problems. Some of them have said that the dealer has attempted to rectify these problems, some have said that they wouldn't buy another Bessacar.
These are spcific issues and Swift Group have the right to reply to these issues or not as they so wish.
We can't just let generalities be posted and we can only act as we see things.
This doesn't often coincide with the way that other forum members see things and It's just something that we have to live with.
Lisa I would of thought the law of the country would be sufficient to protect all persons on this forum regarding insults whether they be written or verbal and referring to race, religion, gender or disability. PCV would have to toe the line in this instance as they would be liable as well as the individual contributor. An exclusion clause would not hold in a court of law.
Plotter "was" banned yes, I made no secret of that. He came back after promising to be good.
Anyway, I'm not wasting any more time with you lot. I dunno what it is about, you who dislike my forum so much and continue to attack me and my forum all the time and making juvenile comments. Jealousy is the only thing I can think of.
I'm off to find a more sensible topic to post in.
Parksy, Can You please explain what you are trying to do here!
On one hand your are being poliite to me and then you are mocking me!
Where exactly did I say that I had been to a Swift Group open day?
I posted the following - "Set date manufacturing open days are often stage managed affairs with smart company apparel and the best of the work force paraded in clinical surroundings. Often the product does not reflect the manufacturing care that is paraded to the public at these times. Plus the normal work day on the production line is also often nothing like what the manufacturer wants potential customers seeing"
Parksy, where in there does it mention the caravan industry?
It says "MANUFACTURING" and the statement is worded so as not to offend the manufacturers you appear to protect.
That was followed by
"That is not an attack on any caravan manufacturer just a summary of manufacturing reality"
Note- "MANUFACTURING REALITY"!
Having seen more than my fair share of a wide variety of manufacturing I have only ever seen a handful of comapnies that would open their day to day running practices to the public and that has nothing to do with caravan manufacturers but can be applied equally no doubt!
As intersting as it is to see how UK caravans and motor homes are built I would have no more faith in getting a good product having seen an open day presentation especially if it were held by a large volume manufacturer.
On one hand your are being poliite to me and then you are mocking me!
Where exactly did I say that I had been to a Swift Group open day?
I posted the following - "Set date manufacturing open days are often stage managed affairs with smart company apparel and the best of the work force paraded in clinical surroundings. Often the product does not reflect the manufacturing care that is paraded to the public at these times. Plus the normal work day on the production line is also often nothing like what the manufacturer wants potential customers seeing"
Parksy, where in there does it mention the caravan industry?
It says "MANUFACTURING" and the statement is worded so as not to offend the manufacturers you appear to protect.
That was followed by
"That is not an attack on any caravan manufacturer just a summary of manufacturing reality"
Note- "MANUFACTURING REALITY"!
Having seen more than my fair share of a wide variety of manufacturing I have only ever seen a handful of comapnies that would open their day to day running practices to the public and that has nothing to do with caravan manufacturers but can be applied equally no doubt!
As intersting as it is to see how UK caravans and motor homes are built I would have no more faith in getting a good product having seen an open day presentation especially if it were held by a large volume manufacturer.
Thanks for the kind words, Lisa. Sometimes they are in short supply around here!
I suppose if you were to look at almost any comment or statement, someone somewhere could probably take offence at it. Some will be more clearly so than others.
It's a matter of interpretation, judgement, and common sense. If you feel that some posts have been unacceptably racist, homophobic or insulting to disabled people, then please email me, with details, and we'll review them.
I suppose if you were to look at almost any comment or statement, someone somewhere could probably take offence at it. Some will be more clearly so than others.
It's a matter of interpretation, judgement, and common sense. If you feel that some posts have been unacceptably racist, homophobic or insulting to disabled people, then please email me, with details, and we'll review them.
There is the old saying that a faulty product probably came off the production line on a Friday afternoon.
Ken - where would a moderator stand regarding this? There is the law of the country that we MUST ALL ADHERE TO. Is this interpretation adhered to by moderators or would a moderator be more sympathetic to a particular case which although does not overstep the law of the land could still be deemed to be hurtfull to some people. I am not having a go at any moderator in particular as I agree with Lisa regarding mods. on this forum, it is just a generalisation thought. I am of the opinion that it is a very "grey" area (no offence to oldies with grey hair LOL)
Hi Ken
Thanks for the reply, I'll do that in the future as I have done in the past and thank you for your prompt action on them.
You're still my favourite mod.
Lisa xxx
Thanks for the reply, I'll do that in the future as I have done in the past and thank you for your prompt action on them.
You're still my favourite mod.
Lisa xxx
Colin
Glad it was you who mentioned 'grey areas'. It's usually my stock phrase.
Yes, there may be times when a mod allows a comment that may be hurtful too some people - but I would hope it would not be done knowingly or deliberately.
There's the perennial debate about Irish jokes. Most people enjoy them, but no doubt some people are offended. Trying to stop people telling Irish jokes would be a futile exercise.
As I said above ......
Damian
Moderator
Just to elaborate a bit on the subject of "difficult" subjects , for want of a better word.
The problem appears to stem from the now , unfortunately, accepted alternative use of certain words or descriptors.
For example, and one I know is in Lisas mind, is the use of the word Midget.
In its simplest form it is, or has been, a descriptor for something small, not necessarily a person, but anything, like the MG Midget car.
Today it is seen as a disparaging description of a small person.
Another,,,,,a spade,has, until relatively recently, described a garden implement for digging soil, now it is a taboo word and only seems to register as a description of a coloured person.
The English Language was a very rich and complex language, with words having to be taken in their context.
With continued Americanism and adoption of slang into the Oxford Dictionary, this is no longer the case, and along with the PC lobby, a lot of the intricasies if the language have been lost forever.
If a posting is blatantly racist, homophobic, or insulting to disabled then it will, if I see it first, be deleted, but if as recently, a word referred to the size of a bed, then that is reasonably uneventful as I see it..
If I am wrong then please convince me of where and I am open to a change of mind
The problem appears to stem from the now , unfortunately, accepted alternative use of certain words or descriptors.
For example, and one I know is in Lisas mind, is the use of the word Midget.
In its simplest form it is, or has been, a descriptor for something small, not necessarily a person, but anything, like the MG Midget car.
Today it is seen as a disparaging description of a small person.
Another,,,,,a spade,has, until relatively recently, described a garden implement for digging soil, now it is a taboo word and only seems to register as a description of a coloured person.
The English Language was a very rich and complex language, with words having to be taken in their context.
With continued Americanism and adoption of slang into the Oxford Dictionary, this is no longer the case, and along with the PC lobby, a lot of the intricasies if the language have been lost forever.
If a posting is blatantly racist, homophobic, or insulting to disabled then it will, if I see it first, be deleted, but if as recently, a word referred to the size of a bed, then that is reasonably uneventful as I see it..
If I am wrong then please convince me of where and I am open to a change of mind
Parksy
Moderator
Jason
I'm sorry if you have the impression that I was mocking you, that wasn't my intention. You opened your thread about caravan manufacturers. The problem has arisen because initially you replied to posts on a thread with the title of Swift Factory Visit 17th April and your post was deemed unacceptable. You wrote on this thread:
'I cannot understand how a caravan magazine forum can deny forum users the right to express comment on the products they have paid for if they have failed to deliver. Yet manufacturers are left to blatantly promote their wares and customer services that I and no doubt many others have had good reason to question and often on numerous occasions.
When there are no more questions posted on forums about caravan reliability, build quality or lack of customer service the manufacturers will at last be doing the good job we expected when we handed over the cash.'
So when you start to intimate that these visits to caravan factories, which is what we are talking about, are stage managed I thought that you might have been on one and had first hand knowledge of caravan manufacture. No caravan manufacturer needs my protection, I'm sure that they are capable of answering specific questions or criticisms for themselves.
If you are talking about the manufacture of saucepans or baby's rattles or something else then I must have missed something or one of us is on the wrong forum.
I'm sorry if you have the impression that I was mocking you, that wasn't my intention. You opened your thread about caravan manufacturers. The problem has arisen because initially you replied to posts on a thread with the title of Swift Factory Visit 17th April and your post was deemed unacceptable. You wrote on this thread:
'I cannot understand how a caravan magazine forum can deny forum users the right to express comment on the products they have paid for if they have failed to deliver. Yet manufacturers are left to blatantly promote their wares and customer services that I and no doubt many others have had good reason to question and often on numerous occasions.
When there are no more questions posted on forums about caravan reliability, build quality or lack of customer service the manufacturers will at last be doing the good job we expected when we handed over the cash.'
So when you start to intimate that these visits to caravan factories, which is what we are talking about, are stage managed I thought that you might have been on one and had first hand knowledge of caravan manufacture. No caravan manufacturer needs my protection, I'm sure that they are capable of answering specific questions or criticisms for themselves.
If you are talking about the manufacture of saucepans or baby's rattles or something else then I must have missed something or one of us is on the wrong forum.
Is "bonkers" offensive now or still just a light hearted expression for someone who loses the plot at times?
We have a friend of the family who describes himself and his friends who have Dwarfism (hope that is correct) as "Midgets" or even Mighty Midgets at times.
Whatever next, the world has gone mad.
We have a friend of the family who describes himself and his friends who have Dwarfism (hope that is correct) as "Midgets" or even Mighty Midgets at times.
Whatever next, the world has gone mad.
Hi Damian
Thanks for your post.
Although I no longer work in the voluntary sector with disabled people, I am still passionate about 'references'.
'Midget' - is an offensive word when referring to smaller persons.
'Spade' as far as I know (from working with black people) is no longer an offensive term and if you were to refer to a young black person as a 'spade' they would look at you blankly and have no idea what you're on about.
'******' is not an acceptable term when spoken or written by a white person who is referring to a black person. It is however acceptable amongst certain black communities, mainly the younger people when referring to each other.
'Dumb and or mute'is highly offensive to hearing and voice impaired people and should never be used.
'****' is an acceptable term for a lesbian. There are some other rather crude terms for lesbians which I won't post on here as I don't think they are acceptable.
Offensive terms for gay men are numerous and if anyone wants me to elaborate, then please say so and I will, with the mods consent.
'Spastic' refers to a person with cerebral palsy and the term 'spastic' is highly offensive. It was ok in the 50's but not now.
'wheel chair bound' is not acceptable but 'wheelchair user' is.
The above are just a few pointers so to speak.
Put yourselves in 'their shoes' and you might see where I'm coming from.
Kind regards
Lisa
Thanks for your post.
Although I no longer work in the voluntary sector with disabled people, I am still passionate about 'references'.
'Midget' - is an offensive word when referring to smaller persons.
'Spade' as far as I know (from working with black people) is no longer an offensive term and if you were to refer to a young black person as a 'spade' they would look at you blankly and have no idea what you're on about.
'******' is not an acceptable term when spoken or written by a white person who is referring to a black person. It is however acceptable amongst certain black communities, mainly the younger people when referring to each other.
'Dumb and or mute'is highly offensive to hearing and voice impaired people and should never be used.
'****' is an acceptable term for a lesbian. There are some other rather crude terms for lesbians which I won't post on here as I don't think they are acceptable.
Offensive terms for gay men are numerous and if anyone wants me to elaborate, then please say so and I will, with the mods consent.
'Spastic' refers to a person with cerebral palsy and the term 'spastic' is highly offensive. It was ok in the 50's but not now.
'wheel chair bound' is not acceptable but 'wheelchair user' is.
The above are just a few pointers so to speak.
Put yourselves in 'their shoes' and you might see where I'm coming from.
Kind regards
Lisa
If your friend refers to himself as a 'midget' that's fine. But for a stranger to approach him and call him a 'midget' it's not acceptable.
Lisa
Lisa - I cannot understand certain aspects of your last posting. At the college we had learning support for various students who required the assistance. One section of that department dealt with "deaf and dumb" students and that term was commonly used when I left there 3 years ago. Other assistants helped students who were generally disabled and these were often referred to as "spastic". The term was always used as an adjective as a general descriptive word to differentiate between a physically disabled student and one who could be mentally ********, blind, etc. It was never used in an insulting manner. As far as "gay" is concerned it is simply a form of accepted terminaology for a male homosexual person. Another term would be "***". These are old expressions which have been taken totally out of their original meaning and applied to modern day communication which could now be offensive. I have always accepted the word "******" when being used as a common noun as being offensive but there are examples where it has been accepted such as the book "Ten Little ****** Boys". Why can't we use the term "Gollywog"? - this was for many years the trade mark of Robertson jams and I found some of the old enamel broaches when we sorted my mother's house out a few years ago. If I am not mistaken the term "wog" was a compliment during the days of the British Empire as it referred to a Western Oriental Gentleman.
Please do not be mistaken I would not do any thing to insult a fellow human being no matter what creed, colour or religion as long as that person was a just, upright and honourable person who deserves respect.
Mr. Mods. the above references are purely general and are no way aimed at any contributor to this forum or any forum/publication that may be associated with it.
Please do not be mistaken I would not do any thing to insult a fellow human being no matter what creed, colour or religion as long as that person was a just, upright and honourable person who deserves respect.
Mr. Mods. the above references are purely general and are no way aimed at any contributor to this forum or any forum/publication that may be associated with it.
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