FRANCE - New Speed Laws For Towing

[g1]

Have just read article in current Caravan Club magazine (p.40)and info on their website (search "French Speed")

I wondered if any one has anyone towed in France recently. Did you see any French outfits got 90 and 80 stickers on back ? Did police stop anyone without them or do they turn a blind eye as is suggested? All seems a bit vague to me as it seems to apply to the car irrespective of what it's towing. The bigger the car the heavier it is and the more weight it can tow. How do they enforce it ? Nobody even stop cars without international GB identification these days and that's supposed to be a legal requirement.

Wes

 

[Lutz]

I don't know where the Caravan Club got the idea from that this is a new law. It has been in existence for years, but nobody took much notice of it - and most will probably continue to ignore it as it has never, to the best of my knowledge, ever been enforced for foreign-registered vehicles.

This topic has been discussed in length elsewhere in this forum under

 

[Lutz]

http://www.practicalcaravan.co.uk/newforums/fm_messages.asp?FO=13&FM=499722

 

[Lutz]

ps: I can only speak for the sticker requirement not being enforced. I don't know about the speed limit itself which does apply to foreign vehicles, too. Maybe someone else has had experience regarding its enforcement.

 

[DavidKlyne]

I don't think the Caravan Club has said that it is a new law but what is new is the requirement to display 80/90 kph stickers on the rear of outits where the MAM ( I think thats the right one!) of the outfit exceeds 3500kgs. Having warned members about the stickers they then go on to say the French Police are not enforcing the need for stickers unlike the did with Hi Vis safety vests.

David

 

[Lutz]

Based on the information that I have managed to gather, the sticker requirement only applies to outfits where the GVW of the towcar is over 3.5 tonnes, not the GTW of the outfit, and even that is not enforced for foreign-registered vehicles. Consequently, I cannot imagine that anybody here in this forum is affected.

 

[Gafferbill]

....It should be realised that this and other legislation such as the over 12-meter rear marker boards in Spain, was implemented with the commercial goods carrying vehicle in mind.

What has happened recently is that it has been realised by some that the same definitions and criteria could be applied to caravan combinations and could mean such a combination is subject to this same commercial goods carrying vehicle legislation.

These Authorities have come to realise that caravan combinations have been getting longer and heavier in recent years.

These larger combinations fit these criteria even if only looking at the figures on the VIN plate.

These are the figures being used as the legislation was designed for Goods Vehicles and such a vehicle could be loaded legally to these limits.

No one seems to know if these regulations are to be enforced to any great extent as regards these larger heavier caravan combinations.

 

[DavidKlyne]

Lutz

The Caravan Club are quite clear in that the speed limits applies to the total permissable weight of the outfit not actual weight. This what is on the CC website

(There are exceptions to this rule, if in any doubt please contact your car manufacturer.)

Example

Honda CR-V 2.2 i-CTDI SE

Gross vehicle weight - 2160kg

Towing limit - 2000kg

Gross train mass - 4160kg

If you tow any trailer/caravan behind this car you will need to tow at the lower speed limits regardless of how much your trailer weighs. If the Honda is towing a caravan weighing 1000kg (total weight of 3160kg) the lower speed limits will still apply, because the gross train mass is over 3500kg.

The French highway code stipulates that 80 and 90 stickers must be displayed by vehicles required to drive at the lower limits, however we have been contacted by various members who live in France advising us that this requirement is being ignored, and the French police are not interested in enforcing it, nevertheless it is legal requirement and the stickers can be purchased from www.speedstickers.co.uk telephone: 0800 988 7329 (between 10.00 - 14.00)

The stickers must be a minimum of 15cm in diameter. The speed limit must be written in black numbers on a white background. The sticker with the lowest speed must be attached to the back of the outfit on the bottome left hand side, any further stickers must be put to the right of the first one (if horizontally aligned) or above the first one (if vertically aligned)

 

[Lutz]

Agreed. There was never any doubt that plated, not actual, weights are decisive. It was more a question of whether it is the gross vehicle weight or the gross train weight that counts. It appears that the 90km/h speed limit only applies if the plated GVW of the towcar is over 3.5 tonnes (refer to my posting in the other thread on the same subject).

 

[Guest]

Can somebody not give the CC a kick in an appropriate place to get this clarified once and for all. We have opinions stating it is the GVW of the tow vehicle that is relevant, the CC states it is the GTM that is relevant and the logical one would be to use the actuial GV W, but that would be too easy. I would point out that th same CC advice is repeated in the current magazine, so thye obviously still believe it to be true.

Alternatively maybe one of the caravan magazines could give some clarification as this would appear to be definitely their business.

 

[Robtel]

Did someone (Lutz possibly) not copy the exact wording from whatever governing body (in French unfortunately) into another thread on this fairly recently?

I would do a search but the search facility on this website and me don't appear to get on too well

 

[Robtel]

Found it, posted by Lutz in the towing and driving section, Now if someone can translate it into English please:

La vitesse des v

 

[Lutz]

Rob, the text above is that of Article R413-8 dated 31.12.2006, but still valid. However, there is also an addendum R413-8-1 dated 02.08.2008 with the following wording:

Toutefois, la vitesse des v

 

[v.meldrew2]

Google translates these as:

The speed of vehicles whose permissible maximum load is greater than 3.5 tonnes or combinations of vehicles whose total weight permitted more than 3.5 tonnes, excluding vehicle transit, is limited To:

1

 

[Lutz]

Nope, but then I wouldn't have expected Google to clear something up that even the FFCC (F

 

[Gafferbill]

...... as I said

Legislation primarily written for Goods Vehicles and Busses and not meant for car/caravan combinations.

 

[Guest]

Which brings us right back to square 1.

Do we all believe the CC, who one would assume have some competence, or umpteen opinions that have no validity whatsoever.

The safest option is to keep within all marked speed limits, as one should do anywhere, stick to 80 km/her on single lane highways and not exceed 100 km/hr on open motorways. It is very unlikely anyone will pull you over for that. If you really feel you need to do 130 km/hr with a van on the back, please keep away from me.

As for the stickers, forget them.

 

[Lutz]

Not forgetting that although 130km/h is the indisputed speed limit for outfits under 3.5 tonnes gross train weight, the French have also recognised the fact that caravans are only homologated for speeds up to 100km/h, so in the event of an accident, anyone proved to have been towing at 130km/h would be considered to be at least partially responsible even though no speed limit was exceeded.

 

[Chaz2]

I drive a LR freelander Kerbwt = 1619kg towing an Abbey Aventura 318 MTPLM 1416kg. = 3035kg:

Help; what speed limits apply in my case?

 

[vectisrambler]

I drive a LR freelander Kerbwt = 1619kg towing an Abbey Aventura 318 MTPLM 1416kg. = 3035kg:

Help; what speed limits apply in my case?

If you're really bothered - it applies to you. It's nothing to do with the kerb weight of your tug or the actual weight of the caravan. Look at your V5 or the plate under the bonnet and you will see the maximum permissible weight of the tug (i.e including a full load) and the maximum permitted trailer weight - in your case likely to be around 2 tonnes. Add the two together and you get lots more than 3.5 tonne.

 

[RayS]

See the thread on this topic French Speed Stickers.

For the sake of a few pence, I don't really mind about the letter of the law, I just want a hassle free trip and not risking the fact that being stopped for one thing may well lead to others being discovered ! (for example, if you have Xenon headlamps, how do you carry the seemingly obligatory spare bulbs and the ability to change them on the roadside)

 

[NickinFrance]

See the thread on this topic French Speed Stickers.

For the sake of a few pence, I don't really mind about the letter of the law, I just want a hassle free trip and not risking the fact that being stopped for one thing may well lead to others being discovered ! (for example, if you have Xenon headlamps, how do you carry the seemingly obligatory spare bulbs and the ability to change them on the roadside)

Ray, spare bulbs aren't obligatory in France.

However if you are stopped becasue a light is not working, you will not be allowed to continue until it's fixed or it's daylight.

Le Flic doesn't care if it's a HID lamp or a candle, if it doesn't work, you are not going anywhere.

 

[ScouseIan]

Best advice I have read on this:

"The safest option is to keep within all marked speed limits, as one should do anywhere, stick to 80 km/her on single lane highways and not exceed 100 km/hr on open motorways. It is very unlikely anyone will pull you over for that. If you really feel you need to do 130 km/hr with a van on the back, please keep away from me."

From Scotch Lad

I drove to Italy last year through France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria and Italy. Cruise control set at 65 all the way there (an actual 60mph) and this attracted no attention from police. Even when passing a police car in Germany where I believe I was 'supposed' to only do 80kph. Any slower than this speed and I get in peoples way. I'm quite sure the Old Bill have better things to do.

What would be good is if somebody has any negative actual first hand experience of falling foul of this rule.

I did see a Chrysler Voyager go past with a huge twin axle doing about 80. The craziest thing I had ever seen. It was lurching from side to side with virtually only two wheels on either side at any one time.

Ian

 

[JohnGriffiths]

Sorry I missed this latest incarnation of the speed sticker discussion but I've been touring (Sans WiFi). Let me give you again the C&CC view which confirms what Lutz says and is the advice I shall follow this year.

"In theory we should not have to display speed stickers in France as we have no legal requirement to do so. According the convention of Vienna on road traffic [came into force in 1977] a vehicle that meets the technical requirements of the country of registration can driven in another signatory country even if the technical specifications conflict.

This is purely for temporary visitors and as a tourist we have no obligation to carry the speed limit stickers. Any such fines handed out for non compliance of the French regulation should be taken up by your MEP."

 

[VIP640]

How do you explain the Spain 12mt rule then?