Freelander as a towcar?

[cliff_5040076]

Cliff

Majoritory? where did that come from? there are more pro than against for the freelander in this thread.

I have never driven one, so cannot comment. BUT, if the head gasket problem was that bad then landrover would have been forced into a recall. Was there one?

Hi Sparkes

Most of the pro are for the td4 which I have said is a much better car having the bmw sourced diesel engine not the 1.8 petrol.

Incidently, as you say you have never driven one do you agree with Clives assertion that you "feel left out" because you don't own a Freelander or do you feel like me that your choice of car was right for you.

I get the feeling that some Land rover "enthusiasts" feel nothing but pity for us unfortunates who do not have the wisdom to choose the same as they do.

Perhaps I'm wrong or perhaps I was foolish beyond belief to dare to offer any critisism of the sacred vehicle. After all its not just a lump of metal with 4 wheels like any other car, its a way of life!

Happy motoring

 

[cris_408518]

When I buy a car Iexpect it to do 150000 miles + trouble free, I've been a Range Rvver fan since the 1st came out and being British I would like to say they are the Bees Knees.

On the other hand up until the new Disco came on the road all I know of from friends, neighbours and business ccontacts is a catalogue of disasters. My neighjbour a LR club member gave up on his most pampered and cherished 3rd Disco turned into another nightmare.

Business contacts who have used Land Rover for long distance commercial trailer tugs alos tell of constant prblems.

Fact - Have seen more Freelanders broken down or on or behind breakdown wagons than I care to remember and far to many with the BD wagon towing a van.

Fact- Sons friend drives a nice new Mitsubishi 4x4 he's a Land Rover mechanic and has bought his Mitsubishi to tow Disco's and Freelanders that he repairs when not working at the LR dealership. "I needed something reliable to tow the trailer"!

Fact- Started to look at buying a new Disco for my self, then found web sites with tales of more problems. Sons friend - "you need something reliable for your mileage"

 

[sparkes]

Hi Sparkes

Most of the pro are for the td4 which I have said is a much better car having the bmw sourced diesel engine not the 1.8 petrol.

Incidently, as you say you have never driven one do you agree with Clives assertion that you "feel left out" because you don't own a Freelander or do you feel like me that your choice of car was right for you.

I get the feeling that some Land rover "enthusiasts" feel nothing but pity for us unfortunates who do not have the wisdom to choose the same as they do.

Perhaps I'm wrong or perhaps I was foolish beyond belief to dare to offer any critisism of the sacred vehicle. After all its not just a lump of metal with 4 wheels like any other car, its a way of life!

Happy motoring

Cliff

I don't think I am the right person to ask that question as there are few cars that will tow my van (1800kg) and my choice of them that will, is a very reliable and cheap to keep my03 discovery

 

[sparkes]

http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_complaints/auto_complaints.asp
interesting reading

Please read the information and make up your own minds

 

[cliff_5040076]

I believe that only the V6 petrol has ever been sold in the US so comparisons may be difficult to guauge.

I may be wrong of course but if I am I apologise in advance.

Happy motoring

 

[Lol1]

Depends which country you are in.

Oh really why's that then?

Well;

Travel in Germany, and the cars you see on the hard shoulder are usually a German make.

Travel through France and the cars occupying the emergency lane are usually French in manufacture.

Travel through Switzerland and littering the streets are

Koenigsegg supercars.

It doesn't take long for a few bad exmples to tarnish a name. When you have many examples, for example, the best selling small offroader in Europe, a few are bound to go wrong.

Take a small sample and if they turn out ok, does that mean a large sample will be ok too?

It's a matter of perspective and proportion. I don't know what the 1.8 k series is like, but I do know what the 1.4 version is like and that's an absolute corker, with very good reliability.

Each to their own. ;o)

 

[CliveV]

I have had a good chuckle at CliveV's comment and I quote

"There is such an enthusiast following for these vehicles that those who do not have one feel left out!

Hence the sour grapes"!!

I would imagine that the drivers of Kia Sorento's, Xtrail's, Crv,s, Hyundai's etc etc really do feel left out when they pass some poor individual standing next to his 1.8 Freelander on the hard shoulder in the pouring rain waiting for the RAC to tow them to the garage yet again.

The majority view on this thread is that the 1.8 petrol Freelander might be a vehicle to avoid if absolute reliability is required. Also the consensus is the TD4 is a much better vehicle.Both of these views I broadly agree with and said so in my orignal post.

The " enthusiastic following" may choose to ignore that and thats their choice. But to suggest that people who purchase any vehicle other than a Land Rover may suffer from sour grapes is stretching credulity a bit far.

I think they are probably suffering from a sense of smugness.

Happy motoring

Smuggness! - How dare you Sir!! Nothing short of total bloody minded arrogance I'll have you know.

 

[CliveV]

Clive, have you converted to LPG yet?

Hi emmerson - not yet - we do not use the Disco a great deal at the moment as the Freelander does a good 28 to 30 mpg.

Am looking at a multi-point injection system but the cost is higher as the heads have to come off to drill the heads.

I quite like the idea as I can then check everything, but the other half of me says if it ain't broke don't dismantle it.

What have you got?

 

[CliveV]

Once again agreed Lol - good points about the "indigenous car species" - sorry that's the Rioja speaking!

As for Cliff - sorry mate - I love Land Rovers - never had a reliability problem - neither has my vet, my farmer friends Farrier or the Farmer himself.

In fact he has just sold the 300TDi Disco for the TD5 Sll version.

The comment was very "tongue in cheek" but there is always one that takes it seriously!

Heck! - I even put "LOL" at the end!!

Boils down to "if you have to ask why - you would not understand the answer"

 

[CliveV]

Depends which country you are in.

Oh really why's that then?

Well;

Travel in Germany, and the cars you see on the hard shoulder are usually a German make.

Travel through France and the cars occupying the emergency lane are usually French in manufacture.

Travel through Switzerland and littering the streets are

Koenigsegg supercars.

It doesn't take long for a few bad exmples to tarnish a name. When you have many examples, for example, the best selling small offroader in Europe, a few are bound to go wrong.

Take a small sample and if they turn out ok, does that mean a large sample will be ok too?

It's a matter of perspective and proportion. I don't know what the 1.8 k series is like, but I do know what the 1.4 version is like and that's an absolute corker, with very good reliability.

Each to their own. ;o)

Lol - I had one of the first Rover 214's - as you say a truly cracking car - in its day 16 valves and twin overhead cam!

It sounded and went superb.

 

[mcghee]

Clive, I think we may have had some words before on the subject of LR reliability? As I've said, a friend of mine who has been a 4x4 dealer for 25 years no longer buys or sells LRs, and would rather lose a sale than take a LR in part exchange. He says he can't recall selling one post '95 LR which didn't cost him serious money. I actually went to him to ask him to find me a '97 or '98 range rover and he flatly refused, both from a business and friendship point of view, which I felt was a shame since I'd loved range rovers since I was about 5. But the more he talked the less I wanted one. I do still hold the view that the original range rover was a superb car, but they are getting on a bit now, and on reflection, I can't think of anyone I know who's had a discovery without some kind of major mechanical problem. They have a large following as you say, but so does the vw dormobile, and they tend to break down rather regularly. I suppose a LR enthusiast will accept any failings of the car, where the rest of us only see the bad side.

 

[sparkes]

Here's one Craig

I could not live with an unreliable car due to the nature of my work. I even keep a bike just in case.

The Disovery has proven to be very reliable and is so far bomb proof. its up to 72k miles now and just gets a service when needed and has had a new set of brakes a year ago. not bad for any car that is only 4 yrs old.

The other big bonus about the discovery is that it will hold a good second hand value for years.

 

[CliveV]

As soon as someone says I like Lada's someone else will say "Lada's - what a load of poo!"

We have to go on our own experience and my worst experience is with a Fiat. Absolute nightmare. Cost us a fortune to put right and we lost over a

 

[cris_408518]

Look guys, who's kidding who here, Be you a lover or fan of Land Rover they are well known as unreliable.

Diso's that are in the main driven as comuter cars well known to heve transmission and gearbox problems.

My neighbour with his new cars had them in and out the dealers with loan cars for weeks on end year after year. The guy has no problem with his other cars but even he as LR club fanatic gave in. His last two cars ended up breaking down within a month of them being traded in and bought by local people one in our village.

Major friend bought an export model abroad, great car, advised not to trade it as it was one that worked! Buys TDI, 12 or so weeks off the road in first year then the gear box and transmission needs

 

[CliveV]

At least you are true to form cris - LOL!!

A plethera of yet more personal anacdotes on the big bad Land Rover.

Amazing then that against a Motor Trade in trouble Ford see Land Rover as a premier part af its PAG.

Sales up 14% last year!

How do the manage it with such a shite product?

 

[mcghee]

Morning Clive. I'm not really a LR hater, but I like a bit of banter about how often they get towed home! Ok, more personal anecdotes. My uncle has had to date 8 discoverys, including the latest disco3 (a fine car, by the way), all bought new. The first had 2 gearboxes in 18 months, similar story with the 2nd, the 3rd ate alternators for breakfast. The newer td5 when it first came out had an uncanny knack for cracking blocks. A pretty good friend of mine has had 2 td5s both less than 3years old, both blew up. Another friend recently bought one of the last tdis which at a little over 100k has blown the head gasket (relatively minor, I know). So why do they keep going back to the LR? They must have been bitten by the LR bug. I appreciate there are many like yourself and Steve who have had no probs and I hope it stays that way, but there are so many horror stories about LRs, they can't all be sour grapes. The flip side of the coin is there are plenty LR owners to tell stories about broken down Shoguns and Troopers!

 

[Icemaker]

Its the same thing over and over again clive, you will never win over the anti's what ever you say. take a look at last weeks auto express and the "driver power" survey, the renault clio comes 92nd out of 100 my wife had a 2003 clio and it covered 80.000 trouble free miles, then theire is the seat alhambra/ ford galaxy/vw sharran trio they come 77th out of 100 yet most of you know that i have had 4 years of absolute trouble free and delightfull motoring out of my galaxy and alhambra, the biggest selling small car in the country, the ford fiesta comes 82nd, very strange how so many buy a car that is aledgedly only 19 cars from the worst in ther country, all of the above cars are very large sellers and very common on uk roads so there are bound to be more complaints, then you look at what is concidered the most reliable car on our roads, the honda s2000 ? i can honestly say i have never seen one i have asked and nobody knows any one who owns one, so how did it get its status as the best car you can buy ? i think its simply becouse very few people returned the questionare and out of the few that do own this car they have been lucky. its all down to volume of sales and in view of landrover the sales speak volumes, unfortunately some that cant afford the luxury are a little bit louder. on a final note my disco 300 tdi auto (n reg) had 140.00 almost trouble free miles on the clock when i sold it.

 

[mcghee]

I'm not sure what the link is between talking of LR failings and not being able to afford one. I could buy a split new LR tomorrow, but I wouldn't.

 

[CliveV]

Morning Clive. I'm not really a LR hater, but I like a bit of banter about how often they get towed home! Ok, more personal anecdotes. My uncle has had to date 8 discoverys, including the latest disco3 (a fine car, by the way), all bought new. The first had 2 gearboxes in 18 months, similar story with the 2nd, the 3rd ate alternators for breakfast. The newer td5 when it first came out had an uncanny knack for cracking blocks. A pretty good friend of mine has had 2 td5s both less than 3years old, both blew up. Another friend recently bought one of the last tdis which at a little over 100k has blown the head gasket (relatively minor, I know). So why do they keep going back to the LR? They must have been bitten by the LR bug. I appreciate there are many like yourself and Steve who have had no probs and I hope it stays that way, but there are so many horror stories about LRs, they can't all be sour grapes. The flip side of the coin is there are plenty LR owners to tell stories about broken down Shoguns and Troopers!

Agreed Craig! - If you read my posts you will see that i am not blind to LR failings. Personally i would NEVER buy a P38.

The design is OK but the quality of the Lucas electrics is dire!

I just think it funny when you go onto sites and see other marques and their problems that some people insist that LR's breakdown all the time. From my own experience this is just not the case.

And having seen its capabilities in extreme conditions you wonder what the detractors want from a vehicle?

 

[CliveV]

Its the same thing over and over again clive, you will never win over the anti's what ever you say. take a look at last weeks auto express and the "driver power" survey, the renault clio comes 92nd out of 100 my wife had a 2003 clio and it covered 80.000 trouble free miles, then theire is the seat alhambra/ ford galaxy/vw sharran trio they come 77th out of 100 yet most of you know that i have had 4 years of absolute trouble free and delightfull motoring out of my galaxy and alhambra, the biggest selling small car in the country, the ford fiesta comes 82nd, very strange how so many buy a car that is aledgedly only 19 cars from the worst in ther country, all of the above cars are very large sellers and very common on uk roads so there are bound to be more complaints, then you look at what is concidered the most reliable car on our roads, the honda s2000 ? i can honestly say i have never seen one i have asked and nobody knows any one who owns one, so how did it get its status as the best car you can buy ? i think its simply becouse very few people returned the questionare and out of the few that do own this car they have been lucky. its all down to volume of sales and in view of landrover the sales speak volumes, unfortunately some that cant afford the luxury are a little bit louder. on a final note my disco 300 tdi auto (n reg) had 140.00 almost trouble free miles on the clock when i sold it.

Excellent points!

 

[CliveV]

I may have missed it but i am not sure a link was there re affordability and Land Rover ownership.

We bought a new one in 2001 and have been delighted with it. As with all new cars the depreciation is a bit of a blow, but being S/E - my accountant reduces that to a managable figure.

My own personal cars have been good quality with full S/H older vehicles that have a bit of character.

I suppose that is what LR's have that others do not!

Character.

My sons have a Nissan, a Toyota and a Peugeot.

The Nissan and Toyota are good but both have broken down (Nissan, blown engine! - Toyota, Gearbox leak) whilst the Peugeot has been mechanically faultless but the interior is falling apart.

Whilst I am happy to go in them, they do seem souless somehow.

Even my Jap car enthusiast sons say that the Discovery is stunning when I put my foot down! And they all scrabble for a seat when we have to go off tarmac!

 

[Pelyma1]

I bought the new Disco when it came out, but I've just traded it in. It was an excellent car amazing on road and awesome off it. What did I trade it in for? Yup another Disco3!

 

[CliveV]

I saw a LR3 with an aftermarket rear wheel carrier on the back. I have to say it improved the look of the LR3 no end.

I cannot help but feel that the rear with the stepped window without a spare wheel hanging their looks a little odd.

For what you get the LR3 is amazing value.

Won a good few accolades as well!

 

[Lol1]

Look guys, who's kidding who here, Be you a lover or fan of Land Rover they are well known as unreliable.

Diso's that are in the main driven as comuter cars well known to heve transmission and gearbox problems.

My neighbour with his new cars had them in and out the dealers with loan cars for weeks on end year after year. The guy has no problem with his other cars but even he as LR club fanatic gave in. His last two cars ended up breaking down within a month of them being traded in and bought by local people one in our village.

Major friend bought an export model abroad, great car, advised not to trade it as it was one that worked! Buys TDI, 12 or so weeks off the road in first year then the gear box and transmission needs

 

[cris_408518]

Once again Clive jumps on me for being Anti Land Rover, I'M NOT.

For over twenty years I've worked around transport, events and exhibition and for hobby motor racing where many tow cars and bikes etc on trailers.

Going back to the first event "video walls", clients built these trailer units and Disco was the "ideal" tug! Ditched within 2-3 years due to relaibility problems! Exhibition and event people towing a variety of trailers in a variety of diferent fields and you find few that will advise you to buy LR due to reliability problems and expensive breakdowns.

I am normaly on the road for many many miles each year covering a lot of the UK and Europe. Plain fact is that I see far to many broken down LR products.

Clive pokes fun at "anectodtal" comment, but my comment is based on fact from across this and other countries.

Few vehicles compare to the off road skills of LR and the cars to me look great, but vast numbers find that they do not offer reliability.

Clive points to sales , they have new product and new owners and should be taking more market share, but TRADE info and others even point to problems with the new Disco's.

My comment re breakdowns in France was not my comment, but from the English manager of a very large site and based on years of experience with his clients car problems.

We to had Fiat problems, and a nightmare dealing with Fiat. I heard rumours about the negines I had problems with that were dismissed as anecdotal and in the end caved in paid a huge bill and off loaded the bill only to find that my anecdotal stories were true and that in one dealer alone they had over twenty cars with the same problems on year or so old cars and that it was a well known problem