Fridge Cooling

[MagsAlan]

When we were in France earlier this year in temperatures of 30 +, we really struggled to get the fridge down to the right temperature. We were on 10 amp and we assumed that the reduced electric was the problem.

We switched to gas which seemed slightly more effective than electricity - we were aware that the ambient temp can also reduce the cooling and the fridge vents are inside the awning and behind the open door which doesnt help I know).

When we moved further north to cooler temperatures, we tried the fridge on electric again and found that it worked as well (or so it seemed)as it does here, so possibly the reduced electric didnt have as much to do with the problem as we thought.

I know there have been various posts on here and other forums about attaching computer fans to the vents but as neither of us are technically capable of carrying out such an operation, we would have to find someone to do it for us, although i know not who.

My question, before we go down that route, is - is it possible to run the fridge on both gas and electric at the same time and if it is, would it have any effect on the cooling?

 

[gary]

To answer your last question first, yes it would have an effect, it would make it worse!

Simplistically, the cooler unit of the fridge uses heat from whichever source to create the cooling effect inside the fridge, the heat required varies depending on ambient temperature and this apart from 12 volt operation is controlled by thermostats.

Once the fridge is working, the heat from the burner/element is joined by heat being taken from inside the fridge, this then needs to be removed via the vents. The hotter it is outside then, the more ventilation required to remove all the heat being produced, so increasing heat using gas and electric together is totally self defeating.

(Amperage BTW, is not the problem, as far as efficiency of the element is concerned,it only needs 0.5A, efficiency is governed by the voltage and voltage drop due to heavy overall site use is I understand a common problem in France?)

The biggest problem comes about because the working of the fridge can only remove about 30degsC of heat, so 30C outside and the fridge can only reduce the inside to 0C, in the 40's outside in the awing and your beer simple won't get cold!!

So to increase efficiency you need to increase the speed of ventilation passing over the back of the fridge, having the door over the vents is the complete opposite of that!

To my mind, the best way to increase ventilation is to block off the lower vent and install a new vent in the floor, this then allows much cooler air from under the van to be used. That not being an option, the only real way left is to install fans blowing out of the top vent and keep both vents clear of the door!

Not the neatest idea and only if using electric, but to get you out of trouble, removing the lower vent grille and standing a fan in front blowing inward, will also improve matters.

 

[AlanJ]

Hi

I had the same problem on my recent tour around Europe with ambient temp up in the mid 30's. It is the outside ambient temp that is the main problem once it gets above 30c.

So as soon as we returned couple weeks ago I purchased a twin Vento Fridge Fan and attached it to the upper vent with a couple of long cable ties and just ran the control unit which has both an Auto, Off, Manual switch into the caravan and put a cigar lighter connector on the end which I just plug into one of my 12v sockets - this gives me complete control over its use and works a treat.

I got mine from E-bay for

 

[MagsAlan]

Thank you both for the swift replies. I think probably, since we envisage changing the van in the next couple of years that Alan's method will probably be the best idea. Alan, im assuming you run the cable through an open window and remove the fans when you pack up to leave?

 

[chrisn7]

Yes, in France its low mains voltage thats the problem. Whilke We there this year, and the site voltage was only around 225V, which was affecting some fridges.

 

[emmitdb]

Mags and Alan,

Just to put your (and anybody elses) mind at rest and for the information.

The reduction in the supply of amps to your van from the nominal 16amps provided in the UK to whatever they give you abroad will have absolutely no bearing on the cooling effect of your fridge.

That is, unless of course you overload the circuit which causes the trip switch on the site to go.

Regards

 

[Guest]

As mentioned the main issue is the poor removal efficiency of the heat. This is due to both the high ambient temperature but also to the very bad location of the fridge. Why manufacturers insist on putting a fridge just behind an opening door beggars belief and one wonders if they really know what they are doing. Secondly putting a fridge that will be on the same side as the awning is also a recipe for poor efficiency in hot climes. Thirdly the installation needs to be checked to see if the frdige is properly sealed to the interior of the van. Yes, the outside temperature may be 30+ but have you checked inside the van? I guess from experience that you are looking at high 30's or even 40's and if this heat is getting to the cooling fins at the rear of the fridge then the poor thing has no chance.

As you cannot relocate the fridge to a better spot on the offside of the van you could try keeping the van door shut as much as possible, or using only half if it is a stable door. Remove the vents if you can. You will see many outfits in the Med with covers off as this improves the airflow by about 50%. Remove the side and front panels of your awning to allow better air flow. Look at the Continentals. How many have full awnings in the heat?? A sunshade is far better and I have learnt this the hard way. You will also find this makes sitting under your awning a lot more comfortable. Again heat will build up inside a closed canvas space far higher than the so called ambient. The other thing is to check your loading of the fridge itself. If you jam food against the fins at the back then you will decrease the efficiency. Also try to plan your loading and let the maximum work be done at night when it is (slightly) cooler.

Adding fans will help as well, but the more you can do to improve air flow the better. My own fridge is a Thetford and even in 40 degrees we managed to keep the beer cold and the freezer frozen, but we also found the Thetford to be better in this respect than the Dometic we had on the previous van. Buy a separate coolbox for drinks as this will ease the load on the internal fridge. keep that for food, except for the 1 beer (for emergencies!!). Even the 12 volt coolboxes will get to 20 dgerees below ambient, so put the beer in at night and usually by the following day they are just great.

 

[MagsAlan]

As mentioned the main issue is the poor removal efficiency of the heat. This is due to both the high ambient temperature but also to the very bad location of the fridge. Why manufacturers insist on putting a fridge just behind an opening door beggars belief and one wonders if they really know what they are doing. Secondly putting a fridge that will be on the same side as the awning is also a recipe for poor efficiency in hot climes. Thirdly the installation needs to be checked to see if the frdige is properly sealed to the interior of the van. Yes, the outside temperature may be 30+ but have you checked inside the van? I guess from experience that you are looking at high 30's or even 40's and if this heat is getting to the cooling fins at the rear of the fridge then the poor thing has no chance.

As you cannot relocate the fridge to a better spot on the offside of the van you could try keeping the van door shut as much as possible, or using only half if it is a stable door. Remove the vents if you can. You will see many outfits in the Med with covers off as this improves the airflow by about 50%. Remove the side and front panels of your awning to allow better air flow. Look at the Continentals. How many have full awnings in the heat?? A sunshade is far better and I have learnt this the hard way. You will also find this makes sitting under your awning a lot more comfortable. Again heat will build up inside a closed canvas space far higher than the so called ambient. The other thing is to check your loading of the fridge itself. If you jam food against the fins at the back then you will decrease the efficiency. Also try to plan your loading and let the maximum work be done at night when it is (slightly) cooler.

Adding fans will help as well, but the more you can do to improve air flow the better. My own fridge is a Thetford and even in 40 degrees we managed to keep the beer cold and the freezer frozen, but we also found the Thetford to be better in this respect than the Dometic we had on the previous van. Buy a separate coolbox for drinks as this will ease the load on the internal fridge. keep that for food, except for the 1 beer (for emergencies!!). Even the 12 volt coolboxes will get to 20 dgerees below ambient, so put the beer in at night and usually by the following day they are just great.

Thanks for the advice Scotch Lad and indeed everyone else. We did in fact have the awning just as a sunshade.

I'll get the chap that does the service to check the sealing as we dont really know what we are looking for and i will watch how its loaded although, because it wasnt really getting cold, we were shopping for fresh meat, fish etc every day so there wasnt much in there. In one sense that was much better because we could choose on the spur of the moment to eat out rather than the 'theres such a thing in the fridge that needs to be eaten so we had better not' situation that often arises.

An electric coolbox might just be on someones Christmas list too.

Once again thanks for everyones advice, roll on France 2010

The wine and beer went in the freezer.

 

[stevemote]

As mentioned the main issue is the poor removal efficiency of the heat. This is due to both the high ambient temperature but also to the very bad location of the fridge. Why manufacturers insist on putting a fridge just behind an opening door beggars belief and one wonders if they really know what they are doing. Secondly putting a fridge that will be on the same side as the awning is also a recipe for poor efficiency in hot climes. Thirdly the installation needs to be checked to see if the frdige is properly sealed to the interior of the van. Yes, the outside temperature may be 30+ but have you checked inside the van? I guess from experience that you are looking at high 30's or even 40's and if this heat is getting to the cooling fins at the rear of the fridge then the poor thing has no chance.

As you cannot relocate the fridge to a better spot on the offside of the van you could try keeping the van door shut as much as possible, or using only half if it is a stable door. Remove the vents if you can. You will see many outfits in the Med with covers off as this improves the airflow by about 50%. Remove the side and front panels of your awning to allow better air flow. Look at the Continentals. How many have full awnings in the heat?? A sunshade is far better and I have learnt this the hard way. You will also find this makes sitting under your awning a lot more comfortable. Again heat will build up inside a closed canvas space far higher than the so called ambient. The other thing is to check your loading of the fridge itself. If you jam food against the fins at the back then you will decrease the efficiency. Also try to plan your loading and let the maximum work be done at night when it is (slightly) cooler.

Adding fans will help as well, but the more you can do to improve air flow the better. My own fridge is a Thetford and even in 40 degrees we managed to keep the beer cold and the freezer frozen, but we also found the Thetford to be better in this respect than the Dometic we had on the previous van. Buy a separate coolbox for drinks as this will ease the load on the internal fridge. keep that for food, except for the 1 beer (for emergencies!!). Even the 12 volt coolboxes will get to 20 dgerees below ambient, so put the beer in at night and usually by the following day they are just great.

Hi, 2 years ago in France we had the same problem with our Pageant Provence. A neighbour told me to take off the frdige vents and the mesh panel behind them. It's very simple to do and it had the desired effect very quickly. We had the same problem this summer with our Swift Lifestyle (dealer special based on the Charisma). Again taking off the vents and the mesh panel sorted it out. Obviously we had to be careful about the back of the fridge being exposed to the elements (there was no rain!) and that we covered them back up when we went out just in case. Putting the vents back on takes seconds and when I got home I used some mastic to seal back up the vents on the lower edges to put things how they were. This certainly worked for us.

Steve

Southampton

 

[David_L]

Having once worked on fridges I always advised people that in very hot times not to have the themostats set to a low temp. as this makes the unit work harder and causes premeture 'gassing'.

With a compressor type fridge the liquid in the bottle turns to gas at high timp. and can not be moved round the system by the pump, turning the stat to a lower temp. only makes the matter worse.

 

[Guest]

Hi, 2 years ago in France we had the same problem with our Pageant Provence. A neighbour told me to take off the frdige vents and the mesh panel behind them. It's very simple to do and it had the desired effect very quickly. We had the same problem this summer with our Swift Lifestyle (dealer special based on the Charisma). Again taking off the vents and the mesh panel sorted it out. Obviously we had to be careful about the back of the fridge being exposed to the elements (there was no rain!) and that we covered them back up when we went out just in case. Putting the vents back on takes seconds and when I got home I used some mastic to seal back up the vents on the lower edges to put things how they were. This certainly worked for us.

Steve

Southampton

Thetford vents are designed to be taken oiff. They are held on by 2 plastic slides so can be removed and replaced in seconds. If the fridge has been sealed there should not be too much worry about weather ingress as there will be a aluminium plate stopping anything getting too far.

Dometic I believe are a bit more complicated.

 

[Guest]

Thetford vents are designed to be taken oiff. They are held on by 2 plastic slides so can be removed and replaced in seconds. If the fridge has been sealed there should not be too much worry about weather ingress as there will be a aluminium plate stopping anything getting too far.

Dometic I believe are a bit more complicated.

 

[duncan_374472951]

As mentioned the main issue is the poor removal efficiency of the heat. This is due to both the high ambient temperature but also to the very bad location of the fridge. Why manufacturers insist on putting a fridge just behind an opening door beggars belief and one wonders if they really know what they are doing. Secondly putting a fridge that will be on the same side as the awning is also a recipe for poor efficiency in hot climes. Thirdly the installation needs to be checked to see if the frdige is properly sealed to the interior of the van. Yes, the outside temperature may be 30+ but have you checked inside the van? I guess from experience that you are looking at high 30's or even 40's and if this heat is getting to the cooling fins at the rear of the fridge then the poor thing has no chance.

As you cannot relocate the fridge to a better spot on the offside of the van you could try keeping the van door shut as much as possible, or using only half if it is a stable door. Remove the vents if you can. You will see many outfits in the Med with covers off as this improves the airflow by about 50%. Remove the side and front panels of your awning to allow better air flow. Look at the Continentals. How many have full awnings in the heat?? A sunshade is far better and I have learnt this the hard way. You will also find this makes sitting under your awning a lot more comfortable. Again heat will build up inside a closed canvas space far higher than the so called ambient. The other thing is to check your loading of the fridge itself. If you jam food against the fins at the back then you will decrease the efficiency. Also try to plan your loading and let the maximum work be done at night when it is (slightly) cooler.

Adding fans will help as well, but the more you can do to improve air flow the better. My own fridge is a Thetford and even in 40 degrees we managed to keep the beer cold and the freezer frozen, but we also found the Thetford to be better in this respect than the Dometic we had on the previous van. Buy a separate coolbox for drinks as this will ease the load on the internal fridge. keep that for food, except for the 1 beer (for emergencies!!). Even the 12 volt coolboxes will get to 20 dgerees below ambient, so put the beer in at night and usually by the following day they are just great.

Fridge fans in the vents are brilliant. Been using them for about ten years & the fridges work fine in the south of france in 40+. I normally remove the vents & mastick 2 computer fans & wire in a switch. i set the fans to extract hot air out & works brilliant. Now days you can buy a thermostatic kit.

Duncan