Gearbox oil coolers

[JTQ]

Online forums state that, in the event of engine damage caused by the lack of upgrade, the warranty will be invalidated.

I can fully understand if used outside of the specified parameters, therefore the user breaking their contractural obligation, then VW etc have every right to void their warranty.

If the vehicle is homologation with a GTW [Gross train weight] value, then how can they legally void their warranty in that it was used for towing within that figure, that's what train weight involves.

Just ensure the actual train weight is within the particular value offered for that vehicle's build spec.

 

[Dustydog]

The VW owners handbook devoted a few pages to towing. Absolutely nothing about fan upgrades . All quoted weights are as expected high.

 

[JTQ]

The VW owners handbook devoted a few pages to towing. Absolutely nothing about fan upgrades . All quoted weights are as expected high.

Those weights equating to a trailer of 1900kgs or 3500kgs as derived from the VIN plate values?

The fan upgrade is probably something not needed to be raised in the handbook , as any particular vehicle will have what it has, and the ability or otherwise should be accommodated in the VIN plated figures.

What are the VIN plates actual figures, I feel that info would reveal what that particular vehicle is homologated to haul?

 

[Dustydog]

Those weights equating to a trailer of 1900kgs or 3500kgs as derived from the VIN plate values?

The fan upgrade is probably something not needed to be raised in the handbook , as any particular vehicle will have what it has, and the ability or otherwise should be accommodated in the VIN plated figures.

What are the VIN plates actual figures, I feel that info would reveal what that particular vehicle is homologated to haul?

MVW 2880kg

GTW 6395kg

All looks good to me. Other than posts on members forums I’ve seen nothing about a 850 w motor instead of 650 w..

 

[RogerL]

PTA got me investigating. This is the first I’ve heard about cooling system changes when towing.
I found this but all a bit late for me

VW Touareg owners

Hi, Some of you may recall previous discussions regarding post 2011 models without the factory fit towbar and uprated cooling fan. For those buying a new car, the approximate £750 for the factory-fit uprated cooling and towbar was a no-brainer. However, buying second hand and being...

www.caravanclub.co.uk

The only difference I can ascertain is the fan motor’s wattage. 650 w V 850 w.
Mine is out of warranty, I’ve towed with her for four years, including some very long 58 mph tugs . The temp gauge has never caused me concern , no warnings on oil temp .
Is a 850 w motor really going to achieve a significant higher RPM than its sibling?
I doubt the fan runs all the time, it doesn’t!
Should I be worried?
A quick look this morning at the handbook reveals nothing, will dig deeper.

The 850w fan shifts a lot more air than the 600w fan as the blades are much wider - you are right that the fan doesn't run all the time and most of the time not on full power.

It's worth noting than only UK-market Touaregs were fitted with the 600w fan presumably to save money, while those sold in other European and North American market had the 850w fan fitted as standard regardless of whether factory tow bar was specified as not.

It's also worth noting that some UK-market Touaregs with factory-fit towbars were mis-built and had the 600w fan, not the 850w version - my Touareg was involved, I eventually persuaded the dealer to fit an 850w fan under warranty but some owners met a brick wall although VW UK didn't go as far as stating the 600w fan was ok to tow 3500 kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm not sure where I have come across this, but I have a recollection that on one vehicle the towing capacities were related to altitudes.

There are certainly parts of world where the land is over a mile above sea level, and that definitely affects the power delivery of ICE engines, but also the thinner air reduces the radiators cooling capacity. So its entirely possible that certain models of vehicle may need additional equipment or weight restrictions to cope with towing at extreme altitudes. This could explain some of the variances of specification dependant on the target market conditions.

 

[Dustydog]

The 850w fan shifts a lot more air than the 600w fan as the blades are much wider - you are right that the fan doesn't run all the time and most of the time not on full power.

It's worth noting than only UK-market Touaregs were fitted with the 600w fan presumably to save money, while those sold in other European and North American market had the 850w fan fitted as standard regardless of whether factory tow bar was specified as not.

It's also worth noting that some UK-market Touaregs with factory-fit towbars were mis-built and had the 600w fan, not the 850w version - my Touareg was involved, I eventually persuaded the dealer to fit an 850w fan under warranty but some owners met a brick wall although VW UK didn't go as far as stating the 600w fan was ok to tow 3500 kg.

I’m not going to worry. I cannot envisage ever towing 3500 kgs . She’s towed the 1700kgs TA with no problems including the 7 hour non stop last year. No overheating warnings.

I have written to VW customer services on the subject. Don’t hold your breath.

Thinking CRA 2015,
The selling VW main dealer was fully informed I tow a large TA. They accepted my old Sorento in px. They noted it was fully kitted for towing. They even gave me a rear no plate for the caravan foc.
They never mentioned upgrades to the cooling fan.
The VW Owners handbook is silent on the upgrade.
Let‘s Hope it’s all a lot of hot air🤪🤪

 

[DaveA1]

I've been looking for my Vauxhall figures can't find them. so these may not be correct but it'll give you an idea,
The towing limit on my motor is 1600 kg this is at sea level.
for each 1000ft above sea level towing limit is reduced 60kg

 

[Dustydog]

I've been looking for my Vauxhall figures can't find them. so these may not be correct but it'll give you an idea,
The towing limit on my motor is 1600 kg this is at sea level.
for each 1000ft above sea level towing limit is reduced 60kg

This makes sense,
As a general rule, a naturally aspirated combustion engine will lose 3% of its power for every 1,000 ft of elevation gain. If you have 100 horsepower at sea level by the time you get to 5,000 feet of elevation your engine is making 85 horsepower. At 10,000 feet of elevation your engine will make 70 horsepower.

Leading on from Prof’s post every 500 feet of altitude reduces the boiling point of water by 1 deg F..
I understand the air gets “thinner” too as altitude increases. Maybe another reason needing a fan with more air volume to cool the car as the boiling point reduces.

 

[otherclive]

This makes sense,
As a general rule, a naturally aspirated combustion engine will lose 3% of its power for every 1,000 ft of elevation gain. If you have 100 horsepower at sea level by the time you get to 5,000 feet of elevation your engine is making 85 horsepower. At 10,000 feet of elevation your engine will make 70 horsepower.

Leading on from Prof’s post every 500 feet of altitude reduces the boiling point of water by 1 deg F..
I understand the air gets “thinner” too as altitude increases. Maybe another reason needing a fan with more air volume to cool the car as the boiling point reduces.

Surely the engine coolant isn’t affected by altitude as it’s a pressure controlled system. Am I missing something?

 

[Dustydog]

Good point. But the air is thinner😛.
Is this all a storm in a teacup🤔🤔

 

[otherclive]

Good point. But the air is thinner😛.
Is this all a storm in a teacup🤔🤔

One of the “ benefits” of the online environment is it can create uncertainty when without the online info uncertainty probably would not exist, and Touareg owners ( and others too) would just carry on towing, confident in their cars ability to undertake the required duty, and reliant on their suite of sensors to forewarn of problems.

 

[Jcloughie]

On a similar topic to altitude. Has anyone else noticed how their diesel performs a little bit better when the air is denser? ie with rain.

Basically the opposite phenomenon of altitude.

See.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

The raft of sensors and the ECU should keep things working safely, but the reduced air pressure will prevent a naturally aspirated the engine from producing as much power. It will also affect turbo charged engine's but to a lesser extent.

Normally most drivers do not use the full potential of their vehicles at all times, so there is usually a bit more available which drivers may try to use as altitude increases. This would mean the driver makes the engine work harder to provide the same driving sensation whilst at altitude.

If the engine is working harder it will be producing more waste heat, but the lower air pressure will mean the air cant drag as much heat away from radiators, so there is a greater chance the engine might overheat more readily at altitude.

There are very few places in the UK where this might be a real problem, but especially in mountainous regions around the globe it is a real factor to be considered.

 

[otherclive]

I went over a pass in a Nissan Terrano, which actually was a Dacia Duster with upmarket add ons, it was petrol and at 12000 ft pulled extremely well. As Prof says most engines in domestic vehicles rarely need full power other than possibly fir short periods.

 

[RogerL]

The raft of sensors and the ECU should keep things working safely, but the reduced air pressure will prevent a naturally aspirated the engine from producing as much power. It will also affect turbo charged engine's but to a lesser extent.

Normally most drivers do not use the full potential of their vehicles at all times, so there is usually a bit more available which drivers may try to use as altitude increases. This would mean the driver makes the engine work harder to provide the same driving sensation whilst at altitude.

If the engine is working harder it will be producing more waste heat, but the lower air pressure will mean the air cant drag as much heat away from radiators, so there is a greater chance the engine might overheat more readily at altitude.

There are very few places in the UK where this might be a real problem, but especially in mountainous regions around the globe it is a real factor to be considered.

Most modern turbo engines are electronically managed and don't operate that close to their physical limit - so the reduced air pressure at altitude will simply be compensated by increased boost and the driver would notice no difference.

 

[Buckman]

This makes sense,
As a general rule, a naturally aspirated combustion engine will lose 3% of its power for every 1,000 ft of elevation gain. If you have 100 horsepower at sea level by the time you get to 5,000 feet of elevation your engine is making 85 horsepower. At 10,000 feet of elevation your engine will make 70 horsepower.

Leading on from Prof’s post every 500 feet of altitude reduces the boiling point of water by 1 deg F..
I understand the air gets “thinner” too as altitude increases. Maybe another reason needing a fan with more air volume to cool the car as the boiling point reduces.

Many years ago we were living over 5000 ft above sea level and when going down to the coast on holiday, it felt as if your car was supercharged and more economical as well. We must have saved a fortune when we moved down to the coast permanently! LOL!

 

[JTQ]

MVW 2880kg

GTW 6395kg

All looks good to me. Other than posts on members forums I’ve seen nothing about a 850 w motor instead of 650 w..

Looks good to me also on two counts;

1) It has the 3500 kgs makers rating​

2) If towing within that caused any issue, then under the CRA 2015, VW UK would have zero chance IMO to argue you could not tow without buying additional features.​

​

Add to that you're towing only at about 50% of its VIN plate rated load, so the probability here in the UK of technical engine or transmission related issues caused from that load are going to be very low indeed.​

​

We are not reading in our caravan related forums, towing our types of masses, that these vehicles are failing.​

​

Elsewhere, possibly where the hauled loads might be way higher, then there might be reported issues, but with our tasks that could be quite irrelevant.​

 

[Scannyman]

I’d certainly think so, but never seen one. Not sure if you could get it upgraded if you had the whole “factory fit” system fitted by a dealership afterwards but I doubt it.


My previous BMW520D and a C Class Mercedes estate were factory fitted rather than dealer fitted.

NEVER rely on manufacturers being 100% truthful after all, it is they who gain when something goes wrong.