Gell or acid

[JTQ]

You still only have 100ah so what's the point?

Not just "a point" but there are 5 other immediately evident points favouring lithium technologies over lead acid, of the quoted 100AH labelled holding capacity.

Assuming here you are not intending to go out to wreck the batteries:

• There is more of that 100AH available, variously offered of between 100% and 60% for lithium-based technologies, compared to 20ish to 50% from lead acid.
• Should you have to forfeit best practices and take a bigger quantity of that 100AH of labelled energy, the lithium will suffer way less long-term damage,
• Should you be delayed in recharging the energy taken, the lithium will be less hurt.
• A lithium battery is well suited for both low and high current drain uses; something that is a compromise to achieve from a lead acid battery.
• The lithium can be very quickly recharged, that is accept a high charge current; whereas this is really bad for lead acid batteries. Why they are very favoured by motorhomers in particular so that inter site drive with a massive charge from the vehicle's alternator, gets you well topped up with onboard energy.

 

[Guzzilazz]

But you don't only have 100AH, because you don't have 100AH from a FLA, you only have 50AH. To match the Lithium you would need 2x100AH FLA...

 

[Buckman]

Apparently the largest lithium battery that can be fitted into our battery box at a squeeze is 120AH however we could go larger it we had the battery fitted under one of the front bunks as the lithium battery does not have to be vented. The battery box could then be used to store some of the stuff under the front bunks or coudl be used as a wet locker.

 

[JTQ]

Apparently the largest lithium battery that can be fitted into our battery box at a squeeze is 120AH however we could go larger it we had the battery fitted under one of the front bunks as the lithium battery does not have to be vented. The battery box could then be used to store some of the stuff under the front bunks or coudl be used as a wet locker.

However, are you a user that "needs" so much stored energy?
Typically, such users requiring these amounts are those going off grid, like non EHU five van sites and the host of social camping rallies; THS, meets etc.
Most caravanners are wedded to an EHU and if the truth is researched would find they are only carrying big batteries for either ballast, there is a big hole they feel the need to fill or because the battery is so shot that if not that big their mover would not work,
They actually need very few AH, and the characteristics of lithium better suits powering movers than does LA.

 

[Hutch]

I think I have gone off grid maybe 3 times in my 15 year of caravanning, I am not going to spend 3 times the cost of a ,non LiPo battery. I have two Lead acid ones, which will see me through for a week if needed. During the next apostolic problem. After that it's a wood burner fitted to my Coachman. 😅

 

[Buckman]

However, are you a user that "needs" so much stored energy?
Typically, such users requiring these amounts are those going off grid, like non EHU five van sites and the host of social camping rallies; THS, meets etc.
Most caravanners are wedded to an EHU and if the truth is researched would find they are only carrying big batteries for either ballast, there is a big hole they feel the need to fill or because the battery is so shot that if not that big their mover would not work,
They actually need very few AH, and the characteristics of lithium better suits powering movers than does LA.

We would like to start going off grid more however many pitches with EHU are going to become metered due to the high cost of electric and using a lithium you could probably cut down dramatically on the cost of that metered electric.

 

[JTQ]

We would like to start going off grid more however many pitches with EHU are going to become metered due to the high cost of electric and using a lithium you could probably cut down dramatically on the cost of that metered electric.

The going off grid usage would be better met by adopting a lithium technology battery, but countering the costs of buying metered EHU energy is IMO arguably not a well-grounded argument?

My logic here:
Taking the 120AH battery case you identified, the energy that holds if you could screw it all out amounts to just 1.44 "units" of energy. Even fully draining that meager amount would be unwise practice, certainly in the long term.
But taking that you can actually get that full 1.44 units of energy out, and assuming the site whose EHU metered charges you want to side step charges £1.00 p a unit, that still amounts to not giving the site owner £1.44p.
However, that is not the saving, as unless you have a free recharging facility, you would have to pay to have filled the battery; here if on present domestic rates of 67 p per unit, your spend for that full charge would be £0.96.
The "saving" for the several hundred £s to go lithium, is then £0.48p, per each battery full cycle, probably equating to the trip.
On the face of it, that indicates quite a long payback period.

Add to that the avoiding the EHU limits you to a visit usage of 1.44 units of power, or a further not insignificant investment in solar recharging.
But, it would lead to being anything but profligate in energy use, great for the planet.

 

[Buckman]

The going off grid usage would be better met by adopting a lithium technology battery, but countering the costs of buying metered EHU energy is IMO arguably not a well-grounded argument?

My logic here:
Taking the 120AH battery case you identified, the energy that holds if you could screw it all out amounts to just 1.44 "units" of energy. Even fully draining that meager amount would be unwise practice, certainly in the long term.
But taking that you can actually get that full 1.44 units of energy out, and assuming the site whose EHU metered charges you want to side step charges £1.00 p a unit, that still amounts to not giving the site owner £1.44p.
However, that is not the saving, as unless you have a free recharging facility, you would have to pay to have filled the battery; here if on present domestic rates of 67 p per unit, your spend for that full charge would be £0.96.
The "saving" for the several hundred £s to go lithium, is then £0.48p, per each battery full cycle, probably equating to the trip.
On the face of it, that indicates quite a long payback period.

Add to that the avoiding the EHU limits you to a visit usage of 1.44 units of power, or a further not insignificant investment in solar recharging.
But, it would lead to being anything but profligate in energy use, great for the planet.

Thanks for the indepth and useful information, but at the end of the day we have a 100w solar panel for recharging so no need for EHU and unfortunately it is stil my choice whether a wise choice or not. The EHU metered pitch would be secondary and a bonus.

 

[RogerL]

The going off grid usage would be better met by adopting a lithium technology battery, but countering the costs of buying metered EHU energy is IMO arguably not a well-grounded argument?

My logic here:
Taking the 120AH battery case you identified, the energy that holds if you could screw it all out amounts to just 1.44 "units" of energy. Even fully draining that meager amount would be unwise practice, certainly in the long term.
But taking that you can actually get that full 1.44 units of energy out, and assuming the site whose EHU metered charges you want to side step charges £1.00 p a unit, that still amounts to not giving the site owner £1.44p.
However, that is not the saving, as unless you have a free recharging facility, you would have to pay to have filled the battery; here if on present domestic rates of 67 p per unit, your spend for that full charge would be £0.96.
The "saving" for the several hundred £s to go lithium, is then £0.48p, per each battery full cycle, probably equating to the trip.
On the face of it, that indicates quite a long payback period.

Add to that the avoiding the EHU limits you to a visit usage of 1.44 units of power, or a further not insignificant investment in solar recharging.
But, it would lead to being anything but profligate in energy use, great for the planet.

Present domestic electricity rates are about 33p/kwh not 67, which alters your figures a little.

 

[JTQ]

Present domestic electricity rates are about 33p/kwh not 67, which alters your figures a little.

Thank you, you are it appears correct. In my defence I had your figure in mind but before writing I had asked Google on my phone, though was surprise to get the figure I then used. It seems Google on that occasion had been mistaken.
With the electric being so "cheap" , and given it can't be resold at a profit, only adds further to the time scale to achieve a pay back of the investment in a change out of the existing battery storage, to a lithium-based system.

Though if opting for sites/meets with no EHU on offer, it all becomes a different argument.

 

[Mandarin]

This is getting far, far too complex for my brain. I'll just stick to our normal CL/CS sites at £15-20 a night and relax knowing we have an plentiful electric supply and aren't using gas for heating or fridge.

If I wanted to save money that desperately I'd stay at home and sell the caravan and towcar

I'll also stick with the cheaper lead acid, solar panel and occasional use of generator if off grid for a while.

 

[Buckman]

Present domestic electricity rates are about 33p/kwh not 67, which alters your figures a little.

Surely sites and CLs would be using commercial rates which are a lot higher and not domestic?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Surely sites and CLs would be using commercial rates which are a lot higher and not domestic?

That would depend on site owners arrangements with the supply company, but it is more likely to be a commercial tariff.

 

[RogerL]

Surely sites and CLs would be using commercial rates which are a lot higher and not domestic?

CLs and CSs will be a mixture of commercial and domestic rates

 

[Buckman]

CLs and CSs will be a mixture of commercial and domestic rates

Most CLs and CSs probably operate on 3 phase where one of the phases are used for the site however I thought the thread was about batteries and not Fred Drift? 😆

 

[Buckman]

Present domestic electricity rates are about 33p/kwh not 67, which alters your figures a little.

Someone on another forum is on a seasonal site and the charge is £0.72 per kwh or £7.20 for 10 units which you can easaily use in 24 hours especially in the winter. That cost is probably on the low side taking into consideration the recent increase in the cost of a kwh?

 

[Tobes]

The main reason for me going LiFePO is not capacity (though that is usefull) but weight. Having an extra 14kg of payload available is worth the extra for the battery. Having a deeper discharge, bluetooth visibility of the status of the battery and longer life are bonuses that make the asking price worth while.