have you been caught out?

[smiley]

Hi all
Have any of you been caught out with these car park charges? Not authority fines.
I went to a retail park and decided to have a look around. the car park is free. but at a particular well known shop there were 2 car park on e at front and back for more space we went to the back.
low and behold we have received a copy of a parking charge via a third party.

we overstayed so has anyone been through this I have found lots of info but conflicting...

 

[Surfer]

Hi all
Have any of you been caught out with these car park charges? Not authority fines.
I went to a retail park and decided to have a look around. the car park is free. but at a particular well known shop there were 2 car park on e at front and back for more space we went to the back.
low and behold we have received a copy of a parking charge via a third party.
we overstayed so has anyone been through this I have found lots of info but conflicting...

If it states "Parking Charge Notice" and not "Penalty Charge Notice" it can be safely ignored as it is a civil invoice inviting you to give them some money. In general you can ignore them as they have no more authority than the cat next door! Can you tell us who issued the invoice? Please go to http://www.pepipoo.com/ or Consumer Action Group to confirm and get more advice.

 

[smiley]

Hi Surfer

It was a company called G24

 

[ProfJohnL]

If it states "Parking Charge Notice" and not "Penalty Charge Notice" it can be safely ignored as it is a civil invoice inviting you to give them some money. In general you can ignore them as they have no more authority than the cat next door! Can you tell us who issued the invoice? Please go to http://www.pepipoo.com/ or Consumer Action Group to confirm and get more advice.

Hello Surfer,
You have made this suggestion previously, but this time you have included links to other websites where extensive debate seems to have taken place on the subject. having spent half an hour reading some of the answers, frankly the sites are a mess of confusing advice, and it its impossible to know what advice is correct or not. However on balance it seems its unsafe to simply ignore a Parking Charge Notice, you do need to respond in a particular way to protect your interests.

 

[Parksy]

There is some good reliable information on parking tickets issued by council wardens or law enforcement agencies and how to tell the difference from parking charge notices which in fact are invoices dressed up to seem as though they have the full backing of the law, which they don't. Have a look at Money Saving Expert for everything you need to know about pcn's.
The concensus of opinion on many consumer forums is the best course of action is to ignore G24.
A £95 parking charge notice is not a credit agreement, so although you may receive threats of court action which may affect your credit rating this is incorrect, and parking firms rarely if ever risk humiliation in front of county court judges. If you reply to their threats you will give the impression that you are taking them seriously which only encourages them to send more threatening letters.

 

[smiley]

Thanks guys
Yes, I have been reading some of these forums, I realise that any site supporting the ticket people will put things in place and tell you procedures to follow because it's their business to do so.

Yes, I realised what we have had sent to us looks like offical document (I think not sure on that never seen one) but they quote the freedom of information act. Schedule 4 which to me is difficult to get my head around. Can they use it?? If anyone can look at it and see what you glimmer I would be interested.. this did not come directly to us, and is a photocopy all we can see is our car with a white blobby windscreen and our number plate enlarged, with time in and time out.....
they say in very small print the on the form 28 days to pay after that is passed to their debt collector so extra charges.. That is what it stated at the top of form and then on back what to and rights of apeal, failures, going to court for a court to decide.
My daughter has told me the first step is to complain to shop asit is unreasonable to expect people to shop in a short time and the double standard of the 2 carparks, the store has 2 car parks one at front one at rear. the site including other shops is free parking including the store. by the time I take off walking to and from car to shop (be it a small distance) and making sure I would have been out on time means 35 minutes in shop and on a saturday allow possibly 10 minutes at till that drops total time in shop 25 minutes to get around look at everything and choose a itme for a present. more time at till less in shop looking.........It sounds a good course of action whats your thoughts????

not good at confrontations even by post. but do keep your thoughts coming if only to destress me any help most welcome.

 

[Surfer]

In answer to John's post. There is no offence under Protection of Freedom Act 2012 which covers private parking as the act refers to parking charges. The most the Private Parking Company (PPC) can request is the parking charge which will be about £1.
All the rest is a penalty and the PPC cannot charge you a penalty. The next question is whether the LL has a contract between the PPC and the LL allowing the PPC to take you to court on behalf of the LL. Unlikely this will exist and you are perfectly entitled to request a copy. The LL can claim damages, but if you were shopping and enriching the LL the damages will be zero. The LL is wholly responsible for the actions of their agenst the PPC.
Parking Eye has taken many people to court and won as the people have ignored the summons, however in every case where it has been defended, they have lost. If by some remote chance you lose in court, maximum costs would be about £50 plus the parking charge of about £1.
Some PPCs try and state that the penalty and extra parking charges are because they erected signs, monitor the parking, employ people etc but the Appeal court, (Parking Eye vs Somerfields) have ruled that these costs are part of the running of a business and were thrown out.
You can appeal to POPLA which will cost the PPC £25 however POPLA is managed by the BPA so you may lose, but their decision is not binding as they have no legal status. In the meantime carry on ignoring all their demands for money even if you get one from a Graham white solicitor unless of course they send you a summons from Northampton Court.
If you defend based on unreasonable charges and whether they have the authority etc request for it to move to a court near you and complete the allocation Questionaire etc. If you are defending and have a good defence, PE will withdraw, but check with the court that they have and do not believe PE or the relevant PPC.
BTW just to throw a spanner in the works, contact the local council and inquire whether the PPC operating on the car park is paying business rates to the council or whether the LL is paying their business rates. That should raise some interesting questions.
Hopefully the above is of some interest.

 

[woodsieboy]

HI
Radio 4 You and Yours lunchtime today,conversation with solicitor known as Mr Loophole,if you drive on to private car park,you are making a contract with the parking provider,when you park you agree to their terms and conditions,but these terms and conditions must be clearly displayed,if you breach the terms and conditions then they can charge to recover their reasonable costs. No one has so far challenged or defined reasonable. He suggested they would only be able to recover their costs,which would be negligible if you were only over by a few minutes.If the terms and conditions are not clearly displayed it is likely that a court would throw out their claim. Suggest you go back and look for the terms and conditions and take photos of the signs to produce to court.

 

[smiley]

So I have read that they will go after the keeper of the car is that correct???

they ask for the keeper to name the driver and if they don't pay then the keeper has to, is that right????

 

[smiley]

HI
Radio 4 You and Yours lunchtime today,conversation with solicitor known as Mr Loophole,if you drive on to private car park,you are making a contract with the parking provider,when you park you agree to their terms and conditions,but these terms and conditions must be clearly displayed,if you breach the terms and conditions then they can charge to recover their reasonable costs. No one has so far challenged or defined reasonable. He suggested they would only be able to recover their costs,which would be negligible if you were only over by a few minutes.If the terms and conditions are not clearly displayed it is likely that a court would throw out their claim. Suggest you go back and look for the terms and conditions and take photos of the signs to produce to court.

but what are these cost where do they come from>>

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Smiley,
dont know if this is of any help, but we recieved a exess charge notice a while back, for over staying on a city short stay carpark,
we went into the city but could not find a municipal park with a free disabled place so parked behind a supermaket in one of the disabled bays it was not their carpark but one run on their behalf on returning to the car some 2 hrs 30 mins later had a ticket on it for staying over the 2hr limit,
I wrote a letter to the carpark company (with a photocopy of the ticket) stating that the car was parked in a disabled bay with the badge on show, and had photos to prove this, and also a time stamped ticket, and while the carpark was a short stay it was in a designated disabled bay and the time limit is 3hrs (local bylaws) if your company provide disabled bays on it's carparks then you must adhere to the local bylaws and therefore cannot deem such a car to over stay if under the 3hr limit, any further corespondance will be handed to my solicitor, a copy of this letter has also been forwarded to the transport dept of the city council.
never heard another thing after that.

 

[Parksy]

HI
Radio 4 You and Yours lunchtime today,conversation with solicitor known as Mr Loophole,if you drive on to private car park,you are making a contract with the parking provider,when you park you agree to their terms and conditions,but these terms and conditions must be clearly displayed,if you breach the terms and conditions then they can charge to recover their reasonable costs. No one has so far challenged or defined reasonable. He suggested they would only be able to recover their costs,which would be negligible if you were only over by a few minutes.If the terms and conditions are not clearly displayed it is likely that a court would throw out their claim. Suggest you go back and look for the terms and conditions and take photos of the signs to produce to court.

but what are these cost where do they come from>>

The reference to the Freedom of Information Act means that they are allowed to contact the DVLA to find the registered keeper of the vehicle if you do not pay and do not identify the driver of the vehicle.
The costs are the lawyers fees in the unlikely event of this case going to court. The parking company will try to frighten you with references to extra charges, debt collectors etc; but judges award costs, not the parking charge company and they would never recover their costs if you put up a fight which is why if you fight back or ignore them they will huff and puff and then leave you alone and go in search of easier victims.
Are there signs on the car park which show the time limits and possible excess charges, and is the fact that you are being filmed on cctv made absolutely clear as you enter the car park?
Are these signs easy to see?
Your daughter's suggestion is the best step to take.
Write to the head office of the store where you shopped and ask them why they want their hard pressed customers to be charged an exhorbitant £95 for parking on their car park which is supposed to be for the covenience of their customers?

 

[Surfer]

hi Smiley,
dont know if this is of any help, but we recieved a exess charge notice a while back, for over staying on a city short stay carpark,
we went into the city but could not find a municipal park with a free disabled place so parked behind a supermaket in one of the disabled bays it was not their carpark but one run on their behalf on returning to the car some 2 hrs 30 mins later had a ticket on it for staying over the 2hr limit,
I wrote a letter to the carpark company (with a photocopy of the ticket) stating that the car was parked in a disabled bay with the badge on show, and had photos to prove this, and also a time stamped ticket, and while the carpark was a short stay it was in a designated disabled bay and the time limit is 3hrs (local bylaws) if your company provide disabled bays on it's carparks then you must adhere to the local bylaws and therefore cannot deem such a car to over stay if under the 3hr limit, any further corespondance will be handed to my solicitor, a copy of this letter has also been forwarded to the transport dept of the city council.
never heard another thing after that.

There is no such thing as a disabled bay on private land but I guess you already know that. By laws regarding 3 hours would not apply anyway as ther is no law that compells you to display a BB on private land. Not sure why you wrote to the transport dept of the city council as parking on private land is no concern of theirs?

 

[woodsieboy]

Even though the parking company can contact DVLA to find out the registered keeper,the registered keeper is under no obligation to tell them who the driver was at the time the ticket was isssued,as this is classed as a civil matter.As has been said many of these companies will try to influence you in to paying by issuing threats of court action etc, a lot of this seems to stem from the fact that clamping is no longer allowed and they are trying to make up the shortfall in their income.To see an example where the signs are clearly displayed you only have to stop at a motorway service area,most have signs saying 2 hours parking free, and then detail the penalties if you overstay the 2 hour limit.

 

[Dustydog]

Rip Off Britain recently broad cast the case of a 19 year old finedrfor dropping his girl friend off at a bus layby. £110 fine. There were well hidden signs banning all vehicles other than buses from the layby. The lad only dtopped for 19 second s as proven by the cctv.
The recipient of the fine was Hounslow Council who collected £409, 000 for this type of fine

Entrapment comes to mind.

 

[smiley]

Hi peeps

well, today I got home after being away.. and the it was the original parking charge from G24 on behalf of shop....
date of issue on form 2 Oct 13
to avoid additional costs Payment must be made by 16 Oct 13. NOT EVEN 28 DAYS
date of icident 14 Sep other notice forwarded to us was dated 23 Sep again pay by 7 Oct

What happened to the 28 they state..
but all the wording is different..... I have been looking at the freedom of information and why its in place who for etc, very complicated indeed... but the ICO (information commisioners office states
1. The Freedom of Information Act

The Freedom of Information Act gives you the right to ask any public sector organisation for all the recorded information they have on any subject.
Anyone can make a request for information – there are no restrictions on your age, nationality or where you live.
Your request will be handled under the Data Protection Act if you ask for information about yourself.

so a couple of questions should the lease company passed on my hubbys info as this is not a criminal offence??? and they are an authority and our info isn't public, plus this g24 isn't an authority either!!
but all the lease company did is pass on hubbys details....... they don't know who the driver was ??? what about data protection

the form is now worded completely different
wish I could copy relevant info but don't know how to copy parts of scans

Would the legal bit on my car insurance give advise on these forms or maybe a half hour at solicitors or citizens advise be able to help do you think...???

this is most probably all out of context... makes me go queezy the more I think about it.. let alone deal with it...

 

[Surfer]

Hi peeps

well, today I got home after being away.. and the it was the original parking charge from G24 on behalf of shop....
date of issue on form 2 Oct 13
to avoid additional costs Payment must be made by 16 Oct 13. NOT EVEN 28 DAYS
date of icident 14 Sep other notice forwarded to us was dated 23 Sep again pay by 7 Oct

What happened to the 28 they state..
but all the wording is different..... I have been looking at the freedom of information and why its in place who for etc, very complicated indeed... but the ICO (information commisioners office states
1. The Freedom of Information Act

The Freedom of Information Act gives you the right to ask any public sector organisation for all the recorded information they have on any subject.
Anyone can make a request for information – there are no restrictions on your age, nationality or where you live.
Your request will be handled under the Data Protection Act if you ask for information about yourself.

so a couple of questions should the lease company passed on my hubbys info as this is not a criminal offence??? and they are an authority and our info isn't public, plus this g24 isn't an authority either!!
but all the lease company did is pass on hubbys details....... they don't know who the driver was ??? what about data protection

the form is now worded completely different
wish I could copy relevant info but don't know how to copy parts of scans

Would the legal bit on my car insurance give advise on these forms or maybe a half hour at solicitors or citizens advise be able to help do you think...???

this is most probably all out of context... makes me go queezy the more I think about it.. let alone deal with it...

The lease company should not be passing on any data however in order to negate this just in case they pay and then claim from you, advise who was the driver, but state that you see it as a penalty and no private company can penalise you. Also ask for a copy of the agreement allowing them to claim penalty charges on behalf of the landlord. This is the same advice found on the two links supplied.

 

[smiley]

thanks surfer

it states on the notice our vehicle was on their clients private property" one thing is that it is free parking on all of the reatil park. even on the shops premisses except for this rear areaof the shops..

so how does that work don't understand it really.. they manage car park and shop is client so who gets the money and who would be in court if it went that way??

But another shock parking company sent their notice to lease co. lease company has typed letter Stating FIXED PENALTY NUMBER - WE HAVE RECEIVED A PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE --- and passed hubby details to this independent company saying to resend to drivers address... as I say we can't honestly remember who was in the hot seat that day.. does that sound like in breach of DP??? as this is not a penalty at all...... when hubby phoned them they kept saying they had received a fine for the car!!

also we have found something in PoI 2012 schedule 4 (5) about companys can not send out anything for 28 days or something
can anyone anylise the following para..
• Check that any Notice to the Registered Keeper was sent out more than 28 days after the parking ticket was issued. If it was sent earlier then the parking company cannot sue the registered keeper for any alleged parking charges. If the parking company requested that the DVLA provide the name and address of the registered keeper earlier than 28 days after issuing a ticket, it cannot sue the registered keeper. It also may be a breach of the Data Protection Act, for which the DVLA may be liable.

this is tough work our letter we thing is ready to send to md of shop all I can find with email.. a copy to shop maybe not the shops fault we don't think
so any brains out their who like reading protection of information 2012 to help and speed up our process?

 

[Surfer]

thanks surfer

it states on the notice our vehicle was on their clients private property" one thing is that it is free parking on all of the reatil park. even on the shops premisses except for this rear areaof the shops..

so how does that work don't understand it really.. they manage car park and shop is client so who gets the money and who would be in court if it went that way??

But another shock parking company sent their notice to lease co. lease company has typed letter Stating FIXED PENALTY NUMBER - WE HAVE RECEIVED A PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE --- and passed hubby details to this independent company saying to resend to drivers address... as I say we can't honestly remember who was in the hot seat that day.. does that sound like in breach of DP??? as this is not a penalty at all...... when hubby phoned them they kept saying they had received a fine for the car!!

also we have found something in PoI 2012 schedule 4 (5) about companys can not send out anything for 28 days or something
can anyone anylise the following para..
• Check that any Notice to the Registered Keeper was sent out more than 28 days after the parking ticket was issued. If it was sent earlier then the parking company cannot sue the registered keeper for any alleged parking charges. If the parking company requested that the DVLA provide the name and address of the registered keeper earlier than 28 days after issuing a ticket, it cannot sue the registered keeper. It also may be a breach of the Data Protection Act, for which the DVLA may be liable.

this is tough work our letter we thing is ready to send to md of shop all I can find with email.. a copy to shop maybe not the shops fault we don't think
so any brains out their who like reading protection of information 2012 to help and speed up our process?

Check with the lease company and if the PPC has written to the lease company that it is a Penalty Charge Notice then that is highly illegal and the PPC can get shut down as the DVLA will stop supplying details of the registered owner. It is imperative that you do this check. Advise the lease company in writing that they are not to pay the invoice, but should send all documentation to yourself.

Off another forum some advice;
"It is not a contractual obligation nor compensation for
their losses so it is an unlawful penalty disguised as a claim for a contractual
loss. You can write to the company and tell them you are willing to send them
an extra £1 for their supposed loss of amenity and tell them that they are not
entitled to any more as any claim for above this amount is a penalty charge and
possibly a criminal act. (fraud by misrepresentation)."