Heavy noseweight - advice needed

[Colinn]

I am new to caravanning and am working my way through the various problems/headaches a beginner experiences.

My car/van ratio is OK (1850 to 1200kgs) and the towing experience has been stable.

But the noseweight of my Buccaneer Elan seems very heavy and even with everything out of the front locker I can't get it much less than about 95 kgs, which is too much for my car's max of 75kgs

I am still experimenting with loading and obviously I can pile stuff behind the axle. But I worry that this will cause a pendulum or seesaw effect which might upset what is otherwise a stable tow.

I feel it needs sorting as a graunching sound started recently and although I stopped it by lightly sanding the towball clean (a tip in Practical Caravan} the ball looks as if it is suffering some premature wear and tear. (I don't, of course, know whether that was due to an overweight nose load or maybe its not connected)

Any advice from more experienced caravanners, please? Is the answer to pile the weight behind the axle to lift the front? Or, God forbid, do I need a new car??

 

[Lutz]

95kg for a caravan of only 1200g sounds very high, regardless of what car you've got. What heavy items have you got in the front locker? It would certainly be better to remove we

 

[Tony A.]

Colin,

are you a member of the caravan club? if so refer to pages 604 605 of the hand book, it explains how to load your van. you basicly put heavy stuff on the floor and arrange back and forth of the axle until the correct nose wieght is achieved. good luck. Tony A.

 

[Colinn]

Colin,

are you a member of the caravan club? if so refer to pages 604 605 of the hand book, it explains how to load your van. you basicly put heavy stuff on the floor and arrange back and forth of the axle until the correct nose wieght is achieved. good luck. Tony A.

Yes, joined Caravan Club at Caravan Show at the weekend? I have seen that page - my problem is that I have taken EVERYTHING removable off the front, so no room for further manoeuvre there. The only logiccal option is to counter balance on the back, but as I said I don't have the experience to know! I am beginning to wonder if my weight reading is correct although I checked it against my own weight. Van's MIRO is 1247 kgs and I weighed nose more or less empty

 

[Lol1]

Only a shot in the dark here Colin, and forgive me for saying what I am about to say as I know the Buccaneer Elan is a very nice caravan. You have said you have removed all from the front, I take it that you have emptied the front locker, the chest of draws if you have one between the parallel seats and any onboard water carriers. You're down to the bare bones. Like I said, I don't mean this to be offensive in any way, and I know some vans have a high load on the tow ball naturally, but are you suffering from any damp at all? Some caravans can be affected by it quite badly, my old ABI was wetter than a fish when it was damp tested but to the naked eye all seemed ok. It's probably going to be the last thing you check, but if all else fails it might be worth a look. Try contacting Buccaneer to find out how much weight should be on the nose of your van.

 

[Colinn]

Only a shot in the dark here Colin, and forgive me for saying what I am about to say as I know the Buccaneer Elan is a very nice caravan. You have said you have removed all from the front, I take it that you have emptied the front locker, the chest of draws if you have one between the parallel seats and any onboard water carriers. You're down to the bare bones. Like I said, I don't mean this to be offensive in any way, and I know some vans have a high load on the tow ball naturally, but are you suffering from any damp at all? Some caravans can be affected by it quite badly, my old ABI was wetter than a fish when it was damp tested but to the naked eye all seemed ok. It's probably going to be the last thing you check, but if all else fails it might be worth a look. Try contacting Buccaneer to find out how much weight should be on the nose of your van.

No offence taken. It's just had it's full service so I hope they might have spotted any damp problems. But then again, perhaps not. I think i need to go back to the drawing board and recheck everything meticulously. Any views on the towball getting scratched and noisy. Is this common with the modern greaseless hitches, it obviously wouldn't happen under the old greased systems?

 

[Lol1]

No offence taken. It's just had it's full service so I hope they might have spotted any damp problems. But then again, perhaps not. I think i need to go back to the drawing board and recheck everything meticulously. Any views on the towball getting scratched and noisy. Is this common with the modern greaseless hitches, it obviously wouldn't happen under the old greased systems?

The tow ball getting noisey is usually a symptom of the pads on your stabaliser getting contaminated, dirt, grease or oil are a big no no. Try sanding the friction pads on the hitch and cleaning them, if the problem returns. You obviously know to keep the tow ball clean, the same applies to the hitch, if you have a cover for when it's in storage use it. We have a plastic ball thats part of the alko hitch lock, that helps keep some of the dirt away, it's amazing what detrius can be blown around when it's windy.

If it's had the service then I would disregard the damp suggestion, and look at loading (still try to contact the maker for the nose weight) there maybe extras on your van such as spare wheel carriers, these should be placed behind the axle line, it may be for some reason that it isn't on yours. See what items are stored under your front seats, they might be light, but in numbers will add up. If all else fails then loading behind the axle as long as it is as close to the axle that you can get it, may be your only option. It isn't the end of the world, so give it a try. I dare not advise you to get a bigger tow car, some of us are on thin ice as it is...

 

[Lol1]

No offence taken. It's just had it's full service so I hope they might have spotted any damp problems. But then again, perhaps not. I think i need to go back to the drawing board and recheck everything meticulously. Any views on the towball getting scratched and noisy. Is this common with the modern greaseless hitches, it obviously wouldn't happen under the old greased systems?

Sorry, didn't spell check that one...

 

[mcghee]

colin.does you van definitely weigh only 1200kgs?my memory of the elans is that they were fairly heavy.you dont say which model you have but if its a 14 or 15 your loaded weight could be more like 1350kgs,giving a noseweight of around 90 to 95kgs.failing that,is your device for measuring noseweight accurate?noseweight guages can a hit or miss affair.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

If you can lift the front easily then the nose weight gauge is probably at fault as Craig suggests.

Putting the spare wheel on an Alko spare wheel carrier under the van behind the wheel could help but you probably don't have the Alko chassis

Pity because I've got a carrier for sale

As well as the alloy wheels !!!!!!!!!!!(& the Straighliner Stabiliser,Milenco wheel clamp and Bulldog hitch lock)

Now if you bought all those and put them at the back of the van your problem would be solved.

Hope that helps !!!

 

[Lol1]

If you can lift the front easily then the nose weight gauge is probably at fault as Craig suggests.

Putting the spare wheel on an Alko spare wheel carrier under the van behind the wheel could help but you probably don't have the Alko chassis

Pity because I've got a carrier for sale

As well as the alloy wheels !!!!!!!!!!!(& the Straighliner Stabiliser,Milenco wheel clamp and Bulldog hitch lock)

Now if you bought all those and put them at the back of the van your problem would be solved.

Hope that helps !!!

You going tenting instead John, or have you found out you want the cushy world of hotel rooms?

 

[Colinn]

Thanks Craig for your observations. You're quite right that the loaded weight would be about 1350. (MIRO is 1280). The point is though I was doing my tests with the van completely empty, ie no awnings, no gas bottles on the front, empty front locker, and the nose weight was still around the 100 mark. I think I'll have to go back to the drawing board to test the weights again. All the feedback has been very helpful in getting my mind round this aspect of weight, etc. Tks again. Colin

 

[Colinn]

If you can lift the front easily then the nose weight gauge is probably at fault as Craig suggests.

Putting the spare wheel on an Alko spare wheel carrier under the van behind the wheel could help but you probably don't have the Alko chassis

Pity because I've got a carrier for sale

As well as the alloy wheels !!!!!!!!!!!(& the Straighliner Stabiliser,Milenco wheel clamp and Bulldog hitch lock)

Now if you bought all those and put them at the back of the van your problem would be solved.

Hope that helps !!!

Lift the front easily? You must be joking. I cdn't lift it an inch and I'm no slouch. That's what got me really worried in the first place. I think the scales are OK, I tested them on my own weight. The chassis is Alko. So what price is your carrier and what size the alloy wheels?? Tks. Colin

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Lol not giving up but the Senator has all the bits on already so as they say genuine reason for sale!!!

This started as a tongue in cheek reply but the wheels are 5 spoke,5 stud 51/2 J X 14in.@

 

[Lutz]

I'd be interested to know what noseweight you come up with when you've measured it according to the method that I described in the other posting. If you are still getting a reading significantly over 75kg, one would have to put the problem down to bad design and the only option you've got (although this is not ideal) is to put a couple of heavy items in the back.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

We are told to load the van with heavy items over the axle etc but this advice is not followed by some manufacturers in a desire to create a particular layout.

My own caravan has the battery box at the extreme rear of the caravan and as our 110 amp hour battery weighs 4st 3lb this will make a difference to the nose weight.

I had re-sited it in a proper vented box at the front end of the fixed bed so that it was in the centre of the caravan from side to side as well.

This improved the feel of the van but it has had to go back in the "proper place" for the impending trade in.

Some friends of ours had an ABI van that had the toilet cooker and wardrobe all at the rear and that would snake alarmingly above 50 mph (I followed once-but not for once)

As Lutz says you don't always get good design.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

We are told to load the van with heavy items over the axle etc but this advice is not followed by some manufacturers in a desire to create a particular layout.

My own caravan has the battery box at the extreme rear of the caravan and as our 110 amp hour battery weighs 4st 3lb this will make a difference to the nose weight.

I had re-sited it in a proper vented box at the front end of the fixed bed so that it was in the centre of the caravan from side to side as well.

This improved the feel of the van but it has had to go back in the "proper place" for the impending trade in.

Some friends of ours had an ABI van that had the toilet cooker and wardrobe all at the rear and that would snake alarmingly above 50 mph (I followed once-but not for once)

As Lutz says you don't always get good design.

Not for long I meant !!

 

[Lutz]

In these modern times of computer aided engineering where the weight of every component is calculated as the design develops, it is very easy to determine the weight and centre of gravity of a caravan before even the first prototype is built. The caravan manufacturers have absolutely no excuse for poor designs but I get the impression that some of their engineering is based on books out of the days of horse and cart.

 

[PaulA3]

In March I traded in my Fleetwood Garland 5 berth 165-5 van for a 2 berth ABI Jubilee Rallyman with end kitchen a much lighter van I was worried that the new layout would be back heavy however once we had loaded the van I found the nose weight to be 115kg. So we rearanged everything I even ended up taking one of the gas bottles out of the front locker and draining the hot water tank before I got the nose weight to 75kg. This would not be practical I then relasised that the flush tank for the cassett toilet was empty and as this is right on the back of the van we filled it up which meant we could now put the gas bottle back in the front locker. I now just have to remember to make sure the flush tank is full before towing.

 

[Lutz]

Of all things, liquids of any sort are about the worst type of ballast to try to get the noseweight right. Unless the tank is full to the brim or unless baffles are provided inside the tank, the weight of the water (or whatever) has a mind of its own and will splash around, resulting in potential instability of the caravan.

 

[PaulA3]

Of all things, liquids of any sort are about the worst type of ballast to try to get the noseweight right. Unless the tank is full to the brim or unless baffles are provided inside the tank, the weight of the water (or whatever) has a mind of its own and will splash around, resulting in potential instability of the caravan.

Yes your correct thats why I make sure its full to the top.

 

[Lol1]

Hi Lol not giving up but the Senator has all the bits on already so as they say genuine reason for sale!!!

This started as a tongue in cheek reply but the wheels are 5 spoke,5 stud 51/2 J X 14in.@

 

[Colinn]

I'd be interested to know what noseweight you come up with when you've measured it according to the method that I described in the other posting. If you are still getting a reading significantly over 75kg, one would have to put the problem down to bad design and the only option you've got (although this is not ideal) is to put a couple of heavy items in the back.

Thanks Lutz, your observations (and others) have been very helpful and I'm very grateful for the tips I'm picking up. I'm going to remeasure this weekend and I'll keep you all posted. I think I may end up moving the gas bottle and everything else from the front locker to a position above the axle, perhaps nestling them among the awning/poles etc. Bit of a hassle and I'll have to be careful about keeping them secure, but I want to get it right, especially with the bad effect my towball seems to be suffering. It certainly doesn't help that the 110a battery and the gas bottle are both at the very front (and, worse, on the same side!. I also note that under the 7% rule my noseweight works out at 90ks on the MIRO alone. Tks again, Colin.

 

[Lutz]

I'd be interested to know what noseweight you come up with when you've measured it according to the method that I described in the other posting. If you are still getting a reading significantly over 75kg, one would have to put the problem down to bad design and the only option you've got (although this is not ideal) is to put a couple of heavy items in the back.

For safety's sake, gas bottles should be tethered down so I'd leave that in the front locker. Otherwise you may be in danger of transporting a flying bomb. For transport only, the battery could be moved elsewhere so long as it, too, is well secured.

 

[Colinn]

Hi Lol not giving up but the Senator has all the bits on already so as they say genuine reason for sale!!!

This started as a tongue in cheek reply but the wheels are 5 spoke,5 stud 51/2 J X 14in.@