Can anyone give me any suggestions on what van to buy? I need a 5 berth van and I have a Renault kadjar signature nav 1.6 diesel to pull it. I am new to caravaning and want to get into it. Would be grateful of any advise.
Lee
Lee
Hello everyone
- Thread starter Intoon
- Start date
Looking on the internet your car has a kerb weight of 1429kg. The recommendations are to have a van of no more than 85% of this weight, giving the van's max loaded weight (MTPLM) of 1215kg, so this is your starting point. Most 5 berth vans will probably weigh more than this figure, so your search has to be very careful.
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Hi WC
I've just been too Campbell's caravans to have a look around. I got speaking to one of the sales team and he asked what car I have etc and he says that I can look at caravans with around 1475-1500 mtplm. Obviously I questioned it and he showed me in his computer that my cars max towing is 1800kg.
I'm not saying u are wrong I'm just confused.
What's ur thoughts WC?
Kind regards
Lee
I've just been too Campbell's caravans to have a look around. I got speaking to one of the sales team and he asked what car I have etc and he says that I can look at caravans with around 1475-1500 mtplm. Obviously I questioned it and he showed me in his computer that my cars max towing is 1800kg.
I'm not saying u are wrong I'm just confused.
What's ur thoughts WC?
Kind regards
Lee
Just because your car can tow a trailer 1800kg doesn't mean that trailer is a caravan. It means with a certain load the car can pull away on a certain incline with that trailer. Please read my posting again re industry recommendation.
- Mar 14, 2005
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I am always wary about the way Renault (as a company) specify their Maximum permitted towed load. Where as most manufacturers will specify their maximum towed load as the difference between the cars Gross Train Weight and the cars Gross Vehicle Weight. Renault have a habit of using the GTW-GVW value plus most of the the cars own load margin i.e.
RENAULT Max permitted towed weight = (GTW -GVW) + (GVW - ULW) where ULW is the cars Unladen weight. I must stress this calculation may not apply to all Renault's so check the precise specification of your chosen vehicle.
But in all of this the GTW is the legal maximum for the car and must not be exceeded in any circumstance.
In practice this means to tow a trailer equal to the cars specified Maximum Towed Weight, the car cannot carry any passengers of luggage!
As Woodlands Camper has stated the cars Maximum Towed weight limit only reflects the cars ability with an ideal trailer, and caravans are far from Ideal. Consequently it is recommended that novice caravanners start with a caravan that whose MTPLM does not exceed 85% of the tow vehicle ULW. This not a legal requirement but a very sensible one. Only when you have gained real experience should you consider going above 85%. The industry further recommend that even experieinced drivers do not exceed 100%. It goes without saying the car manufactures limits must not be exceeded and some cars have limits lower than the recommeded values above - so check.
There is another issue to consider. and that is your driving licence.To drive an outfit where the trailers MAM (=MTPLM) exceeds the cars ULM, you must have Cat BE or B+E on your licence entitlements. Please be aware that the licence looks at the limits not the actual values. Also if the combined MAM (=GVW) of tow vehicle and trailer exceeds 3500kg you again need BE or B+E.
RENAULT Max permitted towed weight = (GTW -GVW) + (GVW - ULW) where ULW is the cars Unladen weight. I must stress this calculation may not apply to all Renault's so check the precise specification of your chosen vehicle.
But in all of this the GTW is the legal maximum for the car and must not be exceeded in any circumstance.
In practice this means to tow a trailer equal to the cars specified Maximum Towed Weight, the car cannot carry any passengers of luggage!
As Woodlands Camper has stated the cars Maximum Towed weight limit only reflects the cars ability with an ideal trailer, and caravans are far from Ideal. Consequently it is recommended that novice caravanners start with a caravan that whose MTPLM does not exceed 85% of the tow vehicle ULW. This not a legal requirement but a very sensible one. Only when you have gained real experience should you consider going above 85%. The industry further recommend that even experieinced drivers do not exceed 100%. It goes without saying the car manufactures limits must not be exceeded and some cars have limits lower than the recommeded values above - so check.
There is another issue to consider. and that is your driving licence.To drive an outfit where the trailers MAM (=MTPLM) exceeds the cars ULM, you must have Cat BE or B+E on your licence entitlements. Please be aware that the licence looks at the limits not the actual values. Also if the combined MAM (=GVW) of tow vehicle and trailer exceeds 3500kg you again need BE or B+E.
Intoon, please can you help us to help you, that way we are not all guessing 3rd hand.
What does your V5 document say for your car's Mass in Running Order?
What are the first 2 figures on your car's weight plate?
What does your V5 document say for your car's Mass in Running Order?
What are the first 2 figures on your car's weight plate?
- Mar 14, 2005
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I hqve just looked up the specification on teh Renault web site:
https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/kadjar/compare.html.
This gives the
Kerb Weight (Excluding Driver) (kg) 1390
Gross Train Weight (kg) 3734
Gross Vehicle Weight (kg) 1934
So the GTW-GVW = 1800kg
This means at least for this car Renault have at last conformed with max towed weight conventions. How ever the Kerbweight needs about 75 add for the driver to get to the ULW = 1465kg. This would give an 85% towed weight guide of 1245kg. Allowing for a 60kg nose load that gives an MTPLM of 1305kg.
Happy hunting.
https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/kadjar/compare.html.
This gives the
Kerb Weight (Excluding Driver) (kg) 1390
Gross Train Weight (kg) 3734
Gross Vehicle Weight (kg) 1934
So the GTW-GVW = 1800kg
This means at least for this car Renault have at last conformed with max towed weight conventions. How ever the Kerbweight needs about 75 add for the driver to get to the ULW = 1465kg. This would give an 85% towed weight guide of 1245kg. Allowing for a 60kg nose load that gives an MTPLM of 1305kg.
Happy hunting.
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
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Welcome to the forum Lee.
If you are buying a used tourer Click Here to have a browse through the caravan buyers guide.
A bit of general research will help you to avoid many of the most common pitfalls whether you buy from a recognised trader or opt for a private sale.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask
If you are buying a used tourer Click Here to have a browse through the caravan buyers guide.
A bit of general research will help you to avoid many of the most common pitfalls whether you buy from a recognised trader or opt for a private sale.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask
Looks like I am snookered! I Carnt seem to find a van that is 5 berth with such a low mtplm of 1305
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Intoon,
Lets try and put the weight ratio into a practical perspective: There are some absolute limits that you must always obey regardless of any advice or guidance. You must never exceed the tow vehicles Maximum towed weight limit and the maximum static vertical nose load on the ball hitch. These are legal matters as are any limits on your driving licence.
The industry guidance on weight ratio's is only guidance and it has no legal authority, but it is based on the sensible concept that trailers should always be kept as light as possible, and it recognises the fact that caravans are actually some of the most challenging trailers to deal with when towing becasue of their size and their ability to develop major forces that can upset the control the car can exert.
The 85% ratio is only guidance, so its not a legal matter, but if you haven't towed a caravan before it really does make sense to keep the ratio as low as possible, but its not 'no-no' if it creeps up a bit, provided it does not exceed either licence or the cars technical specifications.
Probably of greater significance than the actual weight ratio of car and caravan is the way the caravan is loaded with your items. Its this process that allows you to adjust the nose load the trailer applies to the car.
Lets try and put the weight ratio into a practical perspective: There are some absolute limits that you must always obey regardless of any advice or guidance. You must never exceed the tow vehicles Maximum towed weight limit and the maximum static vertical nose load on the ball hitch. These are legal matters as are any limits on your driving licence.
The industry guidance on weight ratio's is only guidance and it has no legal authority, but it is based on the sensible concept that trailers should always be kept as light as possible, and it recognises the fact that caravans are actually some of the most challenging trailers to deal with when towing becasue of their size and their ability to develop major forces that can upset the control the car can exert.
The 85% ratio is only guidance, so its not a legal matter, but if you haven't towed a caravan before it really does make sense to keep the ratio as low as possible, but its not 'no-no' if it creeps up a bit, provided it does not exceed either licence or the cars technical specifications.
Probably of greater significance than the actual weight ratio of car and caravan is the way the caravan is loaded with your items. Its this process that allows you to adjust the nose load the trailer applies to the car.
We are still working on 'other' databases. What are the unique figures for you car?
What does your V5 document say for your car's Mass in Running Order?
What are the first 2 figures on your car's weight plate?
What does your V5 document say for your car's Mass in Running Order?
What are the first 2 figures on your car's weight plate?
I don't have that document as it is a company car and they are kept at head office, I will try and find out that info when back at work.
Thanks WC
Thanks WC
- Feb 28, 2017
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Hi Intoon. I just went through the same pain only in reverse. I bought my first van based on the confirmed maximum loads for my merc. Then realised i would have been a pulling a van of equal weight. I have just sone some driver training on towing to get me through my B+E test and there is a use difference between what you "can" pull and what you "should" pull.
My rig on the lessons and test was at 70% and it was very easy to drive. (I even forgot i was towing at time) As part of the lesson i was given a rig that wat 95% and it was almost undrivable by comparison. Needed to over rev to pull away, it wouldn't break and wouldn't climb a hill. It was real eye opener. The torque on the car also makes a huge difference.
The weight rations are only a suggestion and not a legal requirement but it really needs thinking about. In the end i swapped cars!
In simple terms, the only things you should be looking at are kerb weight of the car, the kerb weight of the van, (and making sure its a good ratio), the confirmed towing weight in the car being within the limits of what you will be towing.
Those cars are actually quiet light for the size of them! Nice though.
My rig on the lessons and test was at 70% and it was very easy to drive. (I even forgot i was towing at time) As part of the lesson i was given a rig that wat 95% and it was almost undrivable by comparison. Needed to over rev to pull away, it wouldn't break and wouldn't climb a hill. It was real eye opener. The torque on the car also makes a huge difference.
The weight rations are only a suggestion and not a legal requirement but it really needs thinking about. In the end i swapped cars!
In simple terms, the only things you should be looking at are kerb weight of the car, the kerb weight of the van, (and making sure its a good ratio), the confirmed towing weight in the car being within the limits of what you will be towing.
Those cars are actually quiet light for the size of them! Nice though.
- Feb 28, 2017
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- Mar 14, 2005
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I think this comment needs to be put into perspective:
I agree wholeheartedly with;
" there is a use difference between what you "can" pull and what you "should" pull."
and
"The weight rations are only a suggestion and not a legal requirement but it really needs thinking about."
But the differences CN make between 70% and 95% is open to debate. Of course increas in a trailers load from 70 to 95% or even more will sap perfromance, but without knowing the vehicles actually used and there relative power, weight and torque, and how they were loaded its not a very informative account. No one in there right mind would expect a tow vehicle to perform as sprightly as when its solo, the real test is if it can keep up with the traffic around it when its towing so as not to cause an unreasonable hindrance. Basically if an outfit can match or better the performance of a bus or coach its generally not going to be a problem to use it on the roads.
How a trailer is loaded can make more of a difference than the weight ratio itself. I could properly load up a trailer with a weight ratio of 100% or above and it could tow with much better stability than a 70% trailer badly loaded.
Provide the tow vehicle has the necessary power and torque there is no reason why it can't make as good progress as the traffic around it
CluelessNewbies said:
I agree wholeheartedly with;
" there is a use difference between what you "can" pull and what you "should" pull."
and
"The weight rations are only a suggestion and not a legal requirement but it really needs thinking about."
But the differences CN make between 70% and 95% is open to debate. Of course increas in a trailers load from 70 to 95% or even more will sap perfromance, but without knowing the vehicles actually used and there relative power, weight and torque, and how they were loaded its not a very informative account. No one in there right mind would expect a tow vehicle to perform as sprightly as when its solo, the real test is if it can keep up with the traffic around it when its towing so as not to cause an unreasonable hindrance. Basically if an outfit can match or better the performance of a bus or coach its generally not going to be a problem to use it on the roads.
How a trailer is loaded can make more of a difference than the weight ratio itself. I could properly load up a trailer with a weight ratio of 100% or above and it could tow with much better stability than a 70% trailer badly loaded.
Provide the tow vehicle has the necessary power and torque there is no reason why it can't make as good progress as the traffic around it
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