Help !. How to retain rear lamp cluster please

[peterw1]

Hello .Can any one offer any advice re fixing my rear lamp cluster.
Have recently had a indicator bulb fail (first one ever since purchasing caravan new in 07/2003) Removed lamp unit etc replaced bulb reinstalled unit only to find that the 5mm x 40mm self tapping screws that pass through the lamp unit and locate and screw into the ABS rear panel don't hold securely. Cannot use a bigger diameter screw as this will not pass through lamp unit.
Has been suggested by manufacturer that I try and glue a piece of wood on to the inside of ABS panel and drill a pilot hole into this .
I don't know if I can get to this point on the inside I'm not sure they do either !!
All contributions gratefully received thank you as the duct tape securing it at the moment looks very unsightly.
Ta Peter

 

[ValA.]

You should be able to buy hollow-wall fastenings from your caravan dealer - and they do work - but I'm sorry I don't know what they're called. They are specially for caravans, not the woodworking/plaster type things. We've used them to do exactly what you want them to do, when our light bulb failed. You don't have to make large holes but you need to be careful when using them. They are a sort of thinnish rubber sheath which you push into the hole, and this has a tiny 'nut' in the end. As you tighten the screw, the screw goes into the nut and compresses the rubber sheath which forms a firm fixing behind the inner wall of the caravan. If you can't get them locally Dickinsons of Bradford sell them in different sizes - and we keep a few in the caravan now as a 'just in case'. We're off to our caravan in a few minutes, and could photograph what we've got if you can't find them.

 

[wombat1]

Inappropriate Post Removed

 

[Cruzer]

I know what you mean, we have these on our van lights. We had one drop inside the body and the dealer replaced it during the service. I would expect most dealers would stock them and would even be able to identify them from the dodgy "rubber thingy that holds the light cluster" description.

 

[coburn]

They are called Caravan Cavity Fixings, see here;
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=caravan+cavity+fixing&_sacat=See-All-Categories

 

[forestgump]

o to b&q get self tapping plaster board screws i did this fix and put it on this forum some time back.

 

[Steve L]

Nice one forest.
I'll add that tip to my list. It might be prudent to add some silicone/glue to the drywall fitting to seal the rear panel from water ingress.
As caravans are getting more akin to cars as far as mass production methods are concerned, it isn't always easy to access behind exterior panels. Caravans are basically built inside out. The roof and end panels being fitted almost last and designed and fitted on a one time only basis.

 

[forestgump]

carnt get a clip up off the said screw plugs that i used due to beeing a pc idiot sorry steve i put a bit of supper glue onthem before putting a screw in this stops the plug from spinning .

 

[peterw1]

Thank you every one . I knew I would get some positive replys.
All be it I have the greatest respect for Coachman sometimes it takes them a long time to reply and then they are very guarded not to drop their selves in it !!
I do not want to drill any holes in the ABS panel and I don't know if they think I'm some sort of primate, but trying to stretch my arm up underneath the panel to the location of the lamps might be a bit much.
Damn William Wilberforce ,I could have done with a small child ,chimney sweep,to have shoved up there.

I think the hollow fixing is a good bet ( Coachman did suggest a rawlplug) and the silicon glue /sealent .
I will give it a go thanks every one.
I AM ALSO GOING TO POST ANOTHER PROBLEM IN GENERAL SECTION.
Ta PeterW

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Hi PeterW
You could try an auto accessories shop and get spring nuts that just slide over the existing hole and use original screw or even new one ,will cost coppers
Sir Roger

 

[peterw1]

Hello Sir Rog
You will have to explain 'spring nuts ' to me please
Ta

 

[Steve L]

Hi Pete.
Spring nuts look like a small strip of metal 6mm wide X 20mm long folded in half (10mm x 6mm). In the front flap of steel a clearance hole is drilled for the light fitting screw, the other flap has a spiral punched hole to captivate the thread. The clip is designed primarily to clip over a sheet metal hole to form a nut as such. Hundreds are used on cars to fix anything from a wing to a light cluster.

I've kept the description as basic as possible.

You should be able to get these from most motor factorers. Just look up motor factor or car accessory suppliers, on www.yell.com

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Thanks for That Steve I was just about to reply when I found your post.
I even picked a packet up yesterday and sort the proper name for them and guess what I forgot what they are called.
If there is a problem here i would gladly go and purchase and post on
Sir Roger

 

[peterw1]

Thank you both
I thought they would be like that .
I need to reaquaint my self with my problem to see if these will fit if they do this will be the easist solution i think
Ta Peterw

 

[peterw1]

Thank you both
I thought they would be like that .
I need to reaquaint my self with my problem to see if these will fit if they do this will be the easist solution i think
Ta Peterw

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Hi Peter.
I really dont see there being any problem here Ive just had a look at a spare ligh cluster I have here and as far as I can see should do the job a treat.The beauty of them is they wont slip off either
Sir Roger

 

[peterw1]

Hello Sir Roger
Have just had a look at my light cluster again and unfortunately I don't think I can use the spring fasteners.
When you remove my rear lamp clusters the whole unit comes away,the lens and bulb holders in total.This all sits in a recess at the bottom of the panel.The whole of the unit is held in place by four 40mm long self tapping screws which pass smoothly through the lamp unit and then directly screw into the ABS panel. It is these holes in the panel which now appear to be too big a diameter.
There is no access to the rear of the panel at this point.
I think for the fastener you are suggesting I would have to slide the fastener over the face and behind the hole to be able use and secure. Does that sound about right ?
The problem is there is no easy access to the rear of the panel apart from coming up from undernath (if that is possible) and I still don't think my arms are long enough.
It looks like popping up to Dudley Zoo and borrowing one of their apes. Definately more clever than me.
PeterW

 

[peterw1]

Hello Sir Roger
Have just had a look at my light cluster again and unfortunately I don't think I can use the spring fasteners.
When you remove my rear lamp clusters the whole unit comes away,the lens and bulb holders in total.This all sits in a recess at the bottom of the panel.The whole of the unit is held in place by four 40mm long self tapping screws which pass smoothly through the lamp unit and then directly screw into the ABS panel. It is these holes in the panel which now appear to be too big a diameter.
There is no access to the rear of the panel at this point.
I think for the fastener you are suggesting I would have to slide the fastener over the face and behind the hole to be able use and secure. Does that sound about right ?
The problem is there is no easy access to the rear of the panel apart from coming up from undernath (if that is possible) and I still don't think my arms are long enough.
It looks like popping up to Dudley Zoo and borrowing one of their apes. Definately longer arms and more clever than me.
PeterW

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Sorry Peter . I really thought this was the answer and yes you are right in what you were saying how the clip fits thats a shame cos you can get screws that would be long enough if you can get at it.
Well youll just have to keep scratching you head Im afraid but good luck anyway
Sir Roger.

 

[peterw1]

Thank you Sir Roger
It is appreciated.
I actually think that these holes have been made to big .
As I have said this is the first time I have removed the lamps since purchasing new in July 2003.
Typical caravan building technique ?? bit disappointing to think that the manufacturers don't think ahead just that little bit to these sort of things happening.
Apart from being a bit heavy it has/is a great van.
We purchased our first van (this our second) the original Elddis Odyessy in September 2001 It was 100 kilos over weight as stated on the plate and fell apart in 18 months.Elddis were rubbish and the dealer (Broadlane) did everything they could to help us solve the problems to the point where they said enough !! and changed it for us at very little cost.
We actually had our Elddis weighed by our local (Dudley) trading standards office when we suspected some thing wasn't correct but all Elddis offered to do was update the plate to the correct weights. Unbelievable. They were not concerned we may have been towing illegally for 12 months.
Many thanks PeterW

 

[ValA.]

Pete - when I said we'd used the caravan hollow fixings to fix our lamp cluster, I should have explained that we actually took the hollow wall fixing apart. We'd found one which was the same thread as the lamp screw, took the rubber off the shorter screw which was supplied, pushed the rubber into the hole in the caravan wall leaving the 'flange' on the inner side (nearest you) of the caravan wall, and then used the existing screw to screw through the lamp and into the rubber with the 'nut' which was now on the outer side of the wall. As the screw bites into the nut the rubber on the outer side the caravan wall compresses against the flange which is on the inner side of the caravan wall and forms a firm fixing. There isn't much 'flange' so that's the stage you have to be careful, in not pushing the rubber right through the wall. Perhaps this might help.

 

[Ian825]

Pete,
I had the same problem & resolved it with 'rivnuts' I bought some M5 alloy ones with a tool to apply from the internet (don't know if I can mention trade names on here - I have just registered to help you having suffered same problem) down side was having to buy a tool but it has come in handy again since so no moans.
Very simple to use, just open the original hole in the panel slightly as per size given in the instructions, apply the rivnut until tight with some sealant if considered necessary, this gives the equivalent of an M5 nut captive in the panel. Next thing is buy some M5 machine screws to secure the light unit.
My lights are Hella & the hole for the screws was a tad tight so I opened them up with 5mm drill with no ill effects. I would recommend
The result is lights that can be removed whenever required easily for lamp changes & resecured properly.
I have no affiliation with the supplier, I searched the net & rang to enquire if rivnuts would do the job & the guy was helpful. I bought & have been more than happy with the results.
Suppose now I've registered I'll have to stop lurking & join in the forums!

 

[forestgump]

usewhat i said you wont go wrong spring clips dont reach the centre off hole and spin when screw fix.

 

[peterw1]

Forest
I agree this would be the best option . But I cannot see how I can use them as I dont have access to the back of the panel which I believe I would need.
Ta

 

[forestgump]

you screw them from the front you dont need to get to back off pannel simply screw them in and a dob off supper glue to stop them screwing more when the screw is put in through the light lense.