Help Please On Towing Weights

[Spriggy]

Morning

Could anyone give me some advice please, we are new to Caravaning with this being our first year, and we are really enjoying it.

We are now in the process of changing our car and I am a little confused about the towing weights.

I was told to work on 85% of the Kerb weight of the car which seems straightforward enough,

Our Caravan is 1150 kg, The Kerb Weight of the new car is 1612 kg so 85% = 1370 kg.

But as I read further through the specification it says Towing weight 1200 kg, so I am a little confused as to which is correct.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi, the only real way of working out weights is from the vin weight plate take the largest of the two figures, then deduct the smallest one from the largest one, this give the the max towed weight.
although TBH seeing as how your van is under 1200kg I wouldn't worry.
if you search though the site there are numerous threads on weight all the information you require is in there in minute detail as this topic has been covered many times before.

 

[Spriggy]

Thanks for your reply Colin, and i will have a look through the site as you suggested.

Thanks Again

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Spriggy,

I agree with Colin's advice, but I'm not sure it tackled your underlying question, so for your information:-

Every new car sold in the EU has to what is called type approved. This is essentially the cars specification, and how it performs a number of statutory tests. A good example of this is the cars official fuel consumption figures which often bear little relationship to the figure the ordinary drive will get. However in terms of the towed weight specification, it's based on a series of tests where the car and trailer makes a series of hill starts under ideal conditions.

Legally a car can tow a trailer as long as it does not exceed the manufacturer's specification (i.e. in your case 1200kg). But not every trailer is as ideal as the test trailer, and caravans are about as far from ideal as you can imagine. They're physically big with a large surface area which means it will dramatically increase the drag from air resistance, but also the caravan is easily buffeted by strong winds and bow waves from other road vehicles.

It makes a lot of sense to always use the smallest and lightest trailer you can, but in reality that's not possible when caravanning, So the UK industry has suggested that novice caravanners should aim not to exceed 85% of the tow vehicle's unladen weight. Only as the caravanner builds experience should they consider going beyond 85% towards a maximum of 100%. At all times the manufacturer's weight limits must be adhered to. There are some cars where their specification towed weight limit is less than 85% and few usually more exotic cars where the manufacturer does not quote a towed weight, and these cannot be used for towing.

So it pays to check the specifications carefully, But a word of warning about using tow matching services. None of the online weight matching services can guarantee the details they have about cars and caravans is 100% accurate. So you must not trust the results these services produce unless you can verify ALL the details they have used are exactly the same as the car and caravan you are considering. Similar models are not a safe guide as something as trivial as trim levels can affect some cars rated towing limits.

Good luck

 

[alibabaxx]

Hello Spriggy,

I agree with Colin's advice, but I'm not sure it tackled your underlying question, so for your information:-

Every new car sold in the EU has to what is called type approved. This is essentially the cars specification, and how it performs a number of statutory tests. A good example of this is the cars official fuel consumption figures which often bear little relationship to the figure the ordinary drive will get. However in terms of the towed weight specification, it's based on a series of tests where the car and trailer makes a series of hill starts under ideal conditions.

Legally a car can tow a trailer as long as it does not exceed the manufacturer's specification (i.e. in your case 1200kg). But not every trailer is as ideal as the test trailer, and caravans are about as far from ideal as you can imagine. They're physically big with a large surface area which means it will dramatically increase the drag from air resistance, but also the caravan is easily buffeted by strong winds and bow waves from other road vehicles.

It makes a lot of sense to always use the smallest and lightest trailer you can, but in reality that's not possible when caravanning, So the UK industry has suggested that novice caravanners should aim not to exceed 85% of the tow vehicle's unladen weight. Only as the caravanner builds experience should they consider going beyond 85% towards a maximum of 100%. At all times the manufacturer's weight limits must be adhered to. There are some cars where their specification towed weight limit is less than 85% and few usually more exotic cars where the manufacturer does not quote a towed weight, and these cannot be used for towing.

So it pays to check the specifications carefully, But a word of warning about using tow matching services. None of the online weight matching services can guarantee the details they have about cars and caravans is 100% accurate. So you must not trust the results these services produce unless you can verify ALL the details they have used are exactly the same as the car and caravan you are considering. Similar models are not a safe guide as something as trivial as trim levels can affect some cars rated towing limits.

Good luck

Hi read your comments with interest.... my tow capacity is 1400 but 85% of the kerb weight is higher than the tow weight.... so which do you go with?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello alibabaxx

The car manufacture sets out the MAXIMUM towed weight the car can handle. This figure has legal significance and must never be exceeded regardless of any other "advice or guidance"'

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I'm reading the on-line Owner Manual for a Vauxhall Insignia and I've come across an interesting statement where maximum rear axle load and gross vehicle weight can be exceeded when towing, if speed is reduced to 60 mph; isn't that the max towing speed in any case. What happens when a VOSA roadside test only looks at the values on the plates?

Quote:
Rear axle load
When the trailer is coupled and the towing vehicle fully loaded, the permissible rear axle load (see identification plate or vehicle documents) may be exceeded by 90 kg for the 5-door Hatchback/4-door Saloon and 85 kg for the Sports
Tourer/Country Tourer, the gross vehicle weight rating may be exceeded by 65 kg for the 5-door
Hatchback/4-door Saloon and 60 kg for the Sports Tourer/Country Tourer. If the permissible rear axle load is
exceeded, a maximum speed of 60 mph applies.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Woodlands,

I have heard of this before from what I consider a reputable source,but I don't know how you defend the case of exceeding a stamped weight limit, even though the manufacturer makes claims of this nature in the owner's handbook.

Until there is clarity on this issue I will not suggest caravanners try to use this apparent extra capacity.

 

[Raywood]

An interesting point. I would have to assume that if that was presented as a defence then any prosecution would fail.
Ray

I'm reading the on-line Owner Manual for a Vauxhall Insignia and I've come across an interesting statement where maximum rear axle load and gross vehicle weight can be exceeded when towing, if speed is reduced to 60 mph; isn't that the max towing speed in any case. What happens when a VOSA roadside test only looks at the values on the plates?

Quote:
Rear axle load
When the trailer is coupled and the towing vehicle fully loaded, the permissible rear axle load (see identification plate or vehicle documents) may be exceeded by 90 kg for the 5-door Hatchback/4-door Saloon and 85 kg for the Sports
Tourer/Country Tourer, the gross vehicle weight rating may be exceeded by 65 kg for the 5-door
Hatchback/4-door Saloon and 60 kg for the Sports Tourer/Country Tourer. If the permissible rear axle load is
exceeded, a maximum speed of 60 mph applies.

 

[ProfJohnL]

An interesting point. I would have to assume that if that was presented as a defence then any prosecution would fail.

Ray

Hello Ray,

I don't think there is any certainty either for or against prosecution.

In all other related areas it seems the evidence of over loading or not will hinge on measured load compared to the plated weights. I.e those that stamped on the official plate for the vehicle or that appear on the official record of registration. (V5c) The vehicle hand book does not constitute the registered specification, thus the courts are not likely to recognise them as changing a registered specification, but the courts might accept that they cause confusion for users which might be a reason to moderate any judgement.

It would require a court judgement to set a precedence.

 

[JonnyG]

insignia owner here and whilst i cannot think of a time where i would apply page 157 of my handbook the way its worded and each model 5dr/4dr specific , i would trust it as a valid information and a valid defence should a case ever arise. one thing does anyone know what mc stands for in maximum permissible mass [excluding m / c ]