Hi, new boy here looking for some tech help please

[jetskiadam]

Hi, after being a seasoned family of campers, a recent storm persuaded us to invest - loose definition of the word - in a caravan. After several weeks of looking at cheap vans, and doing a bit of homework I went to look at a 1991 Elddis Typhoon XL that was on gumtree at a price that was too good to ignore....or so I thought!

I viewed the caravan while the vendor was away using it with his family, and came away generally impressed, he was a decent bloke, nice family, clean and tidy van, almost everything worked and the things that didn't were pointed out. While I was viewing it another 3 people called to arrrange a viewing so I bought it there and then and took delivery the next day.

3 days after getting it home I was out in the van, getting ready for it's first night away,when I plugged the tv in to the wee white 12v socket to check it worked...it didn't. But worse, I went to check it was plugged in properly and just about got a 3rd degree burn as the socket was melting. There was a crackling noise and smoke came out of one of the cupboards behind the zig control panel. I disconnected the battery quickly but not before several metres of wire, 5 rocker switches and the voltmeter had melted in the fire.

The repair had now become time critical as visiting family from new zealand's planned accommodation had fallen through and they had been told they could use the van to help them out for a couple of weeks the day before the fire. I had 3 days to get it running again. I used what i remembered from my physics class 20 years ago and miraculously managed to replace all the damaged switches and wires with an array of different styles and sizes of rocker and toggle switches, it aint pretty but it works at least...except I've got 2 wires left over, not connected to anything and now isolated for safety.

Now mapplins did not have a small cheap voltmeter in stock, so the voltmeter has not been replaced yet but something tells me it can't be that easy, can it? Does anyone have, or can anyone take for me, a photo of the back of a correctly wired Zig CF-7?

Also, the 3 main strip lights down the centre of the ceiling dont work, but the rest of the lights do. To be fair the guy that sold me the van told me they didn't work when I bought it. He also told me they were 240v lights? I took the covers off, and noticed all the tubes were blown (12v 8 watt 300mm) so replaced all the bulbs with new ones but still no joy...could this be my 2 spare wires behind the zig? The wires don't appear to be fused though?

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for such an old caravan? I've managed to figure most things out as I've gone, but electrics are still more a dark art than a science to me.

So far I've been a busy laddie though

Thetford C2 toilet manual flush pump stripped down, and repaired and refitted
Carver 1800 heater cover stripped back to bare metal and resprayed
Crystal water filter / pump power connection fixed
12v TV socket replaced and rewired
on off on leisure battery/off/car battery switch replaced and rewired
Lights/pump/aux 1/aux 2 switches replaced and rewired

Still to go...

Floor delamination repair kit bought
volt meter ordered awaiting delivery
main lights to be fixed
hose in shower head/tap unit in shower room leaks.

Despite all of this, the caravan is great, my family are loving their stay in it and I'm looking forward to really getting stuck in with running repairs over the winter, in order to have a full seasons use next year.

Anyone with any technical info on this model, wiring diagrams, pics of back of zig panel or anything else that might be useful for a newbie to know please do let me know.

I look forward to hearing from you if you've read this far, cheers

Adam

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Adam,
cannot help with a wiring diagram may be able to source one on the net, or the photo as I no longer have a van.
but you cannot really test the circuits without a mulimeter you will need to check every circuit from unit to source in a methodical way. from your post it would seem the van has been bodged and things disconnected rather than rectified.
sorry I cannot be more help.
but from the information scant as it is, I assume the next three answers will be.
1. get a mobile engineer to sort it !!!!
2. take it to a service shop and let them do it !!!
3 have a proffesional electrician fix it !!!!
DIY on caravans is frowned on. you have had one fire the next one could be while it is being used.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Adam,

I agree with a large portion of Colin's post. It needs a methodical approach to faultfinding, and resist the temptation to just to make do, As you have already found, inadequate wiring gauge or substandard components and the lack of proper over-current protection (fuses) has led to a problem for you.

I also concur with Colin about the value of an effective multimeter. Again resist the temptation to go with the cheapest, purchase one from a reputable supplier- Avoid the cheapest ones on Ebay (usually made in china)

Where I only partly agree with Colin is about DIY repairs. You should only contemplate DIY on electrics and gas installations if you are fully competent to work on the systems, and you have access to all the necessary test gear and the knowledge of how to use them. If you have any doubts about your competence, it is most sensible to have the systems attended by a professional.

Whilst you are technically allowed to work on the gas and electrical system in your caravan, It is illegal to work on the gas system in your house, and any mains electrical wiring changes must be certified by an electrician under "Part P"

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the 12V systems are relatively safe. It's true you are less likely to get a serious electrical shock from the 12V systems, but shoddy wiring, and underrated components can and will present a fire risk.

 

[LizziePope]

Hi there Adam and a warm welcome to the Practical Caravan forum.

 

[jetskiadam]

Thanks for your advice Prof & Colin, and your welcome Lizzie.

While I take onboard everything said about technical proficiency, this to me is about practical caravanning and that means if you've got a £1300 caravan, if it breaks you do your best to fix it yourself. If the toilet stops flushing, you roll your sleeves up, take it apart, investigate, repair and reassemble, you don't pay a caravan engineer a £45 call out fee plus labour.

I also recognise my limitations and am lucky enough to have a good caravanning buddy that is a gas safe heating engineer so he will be doing any work on the gas and has already inspected the gas system so I'm happy with that. Any electrical work I have done, I am 100% happy with, and has been done properly. Anything in the future that I have any doubt about I will get checked over by a caravan technician.

It's not practical to pay someone to do a job you can do yourself but I agree it is sensible to have that DIY work double checked by someone who is qualified where necessary.

I'm not into making botched jobs, but am in the situation where I am having to repair and make safe botches made by previous owners. In this case to be honest if I'd paid a pro to repair the damage I'd be hundreds of pounds down, as it is I've now got a safe, serviceable van that should do my family the next few seasons on the cheap...

Cheers

Adam

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Adam.

I am sorry to have to add a note of caution :-

The comments I gave were not just friendly advice, but are based on what you are legally allowed to do in respect of gas and electrical systems. Whilst we like to think our caravans are ours to do with as we wish, changes in legislation now mean that certain works do have to comply with regulations.

In terms of the gas system, touring caravans and motorhomes are two of a small group of special cases where there are certain and very specific differences to the general law on gas fitting as defined by the Gas safety Installation and use regulations.

As the owner of a private, not for hire touring caravan you may undertake changes to the gas installation, but regardless of who does the work the law on Health and Safety requires that it must be up to the standards as defined in the acops for gas fitting.

Anyone else whom you ask to work on your gas system (Whether it be friend or relative for free or for payment) unless they own the caravan, they must not work on the gas system unless they have the appropriate qualifications and approvals. The qualification for Natural gas is not the same as the qualifications for LPG. So your gas fitter friend must have the LPG ticket on their approval to carry out work on your caravan.

You can replace 230V components on a like for like basis, but modifications to the system must be certified by a qualified electrician before they are connected to the mains supply.

Failure to comply with these regulations falls under Health and safety Law which is dealt with under Criminal laws and carries unlimited fines and the possibility of a custodial sentence.

Sadly I have had to report on the consequences of DIYers who attempted work on LPG systems and appliances, and the little knowledge they had was incomplete and resulted in dangerous systems that did cause injury and near fatalities.

Please do not over estimate your own abilities in the areas.

Good luck

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Adam, in essence that is what caravanning is about, or should I say it was, it was my philosophy for over 40 years but sadly the practice is now well frowned upon 90% of the calls for help are answered with take it to an engineer, DIY is becoming a lost art as vans get more complicated both in construction and development of electronic equipment. while you have a old cheap van to work on you should be fine,

edit,
while I was writing this there was a answer from the prof and while I disagree with most things on DIY in essence he is correct, I did tell you what to expect though. any work has to be gas safe but any gas safe is not good enough it has to be the right gas safe, electrical work has to be certified or you cannot plug it into the site EHU bollard although no one will ask for a certificate, and the old gone mad health and safety rules are there in a catch all situation that is not covered by legislation. because all DIY'er are deemed numskulls in a use the lowest denominator philosophy with repairs. good luck with it, and enjoy.
ps. glad I'm now out of it all, I do feel sorry for those just starting though.

 

[Parksy]

Hello Adam.

I am sorry to have to add a note of caution :-

The comments I gave were not just friendly advice, but are based on what you are legally allowed to do in respect of gas and electrical systems. Whilst we like to think our caravans are ours to do with as we wish, changes in legislation now mean that certain works do have to comply with regulations.

In terms of the gas system, touring caravans and motorhomes are two of a small group of special cases where there are certain and very specific differences to the general law on gas fitting as defined by the Gas safety Installation and use regulations.

As the owner of a private, not for hire touring caravan you may undertake changes to the gas installation, but regardless of who does the work the law on Health and Safety requires that it must be up to the standards as defined in the acops for gas fitting.

Anyone else whom you ask to work on your gas system (Whether it be friend or relative for free or for payment) unless they own the caravan, they must not work on the gas system unless they have the appropriate qualifications and approvals. The qualification for Natural gas is not the same as the qualifications for LPG. So your gas fitter friend must have the LPG ticket on their approval to carry out work on your caravan.

You can replace 230V components on a like for like basis, but modifications to the system must be certified by a qualified electrician before they are connected to the mains supply.

Failure to comply with these regulations falls under Health and safety Law which is dealt with under Criminal laws and carries unlimited fines and the possibility of a custodial sentence.

Sadly I have had to report on the consequences of DIYers who attempted work on LPG systems and appliances, and the little knowledge they had was incomplete and resulted in dangerous systems that did cause injury and near fatalities.

Please do not over estimate your own abilities in the areas.

Good luck

While I am totally in favour of any d-i-y work being carried out by competent persons only, I'm sorry Prof. but I haven't been able to unearth any piece of legislation which would legally prohibit the Adam from carrying out electrical installation work on his touring caravan.
There is plenty of legislation concerning electrical installation which would apply to domestic electrical installation, this includes mobile homes or static caravans and it applies to electrical installation on caravan sites and new touring caravans have to carry electrical certification but I'm not sure that it applies to older tourers.
I'd agree that testing and certification has to be done by a qualified electrician but PIR testing and certification, while desirable, is not yet compulsory on older touring caravans, please correct me if I'm wrong.
I have yet to read about any touring caravan owner anywhere in the UK being asked to provide certification for electrical installation before they are allowed to use ehu's.
If you have evidence of any prosecution of a touring caravan owner who fitted, say, a 230v electrical socket or perhaps in this particular instance who repaired a zig battery charger on a touring caravan in the UK under this health and safety legislation with regard touring caravans I'd be most interested to see the details.
Gas safety is a completely different matter with very stringent laws which apply, and touring caravan owners must comply with all laws and regulations which are applicable in either case, but although it is desirable for the owner of an older touring caravan to have the electrical wiring and installation checked and certified I personally haven't found anything on the internet which would legally prohibit Adam from working on his caravan electrical system, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Jules_ht]

Good on you for rolling up your sleeves and getting it done. Not everyone frowns upon people making basic fixes to easy to understand electrical systems. Glad you're leaving the gas alone though, that sounds sensible.

On the subject of the lights, I have a pair of lights in my van that whilst run on 12V, only work when the van is connected to the mains supply. Don't know if that's how it's supposed to be!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Parksy and Adam,

I realise my posting may have caused some alarm, but it is not without basis. I make no apologies for being hard hitting on these safety matters. It is only right that people should be made aware of the possible consequences of their actions.

Just to clarify, when I did my NICEIC qualifications (over 30 years ago), It was made clear to us that whilst anyone can in theory do installation work on a mains electrical system, it must be tested and certified before it is connected to the mains supply. So Adam is free to make changes but they should be tested and approved before being used.

New caravans are provided with a NICIEC certification. Changes such as replacing a switch or socket outlet do not require recertification, but changes to the permanent fixed design does. Additions to the fixed installation constitute a change to the installation and thus just as in normal domestic installations requires re-certification before connection to the mains supply.

I do not intend to reopen the debate about periodic inspection reports/certificates again, which were condemned on the basis of being overly invasive disproportionate and far too expensive. But legally the IEEE regulations do expect a PIR to be carried out, and as far as I am concerned that is still a sensible requirement, but it does need a more proportional process to be agreed.

Despite the moratorium on the implementation of PIRs, legally a site operator can ask to see a current PIR certificate, and could refuse to allow an EHU connection if the cert is not present or is out of date.

However the issue here is not about the recertification of an existing unchanged system, but the need for a modified system to be shown to be compliant with electrical safety and practice.

In practice there are practical ways to manage this issue. If an additional socket is required, it could be an extension cable that plugs into an existing socket. This is not a permanent addition to the system and thus not covered by the need for a new certificate.

Again in practice the number of H&S prosecutions in this area is thankfully low, and where they do arise is when a system has failed in some way causing an investigation. But the contraventions are Criminal offences with the penalties as previous described.

 

[Jules_ht]

Isn't all the OP is doing is performing like for like swaps/updating on the pre-existing equipment?

 

[Parksy]

Hello Parksy and Adam,

New caravans are provided with a NICIEC certification. Changes such as replacing a switch or socket outlet do not require recertification, but changes to the permanent fixed design does. Additions to the fixed installation constitute a change to the installation and thus just as in normal domestic installations requires re-certification before connection to the mains supply.....

....Despite the moratorium on the implementation of PIRs, legally a site operator can ask to see a current PIR certificate, and could refuse to allow an EHU connection if the cert is not present or is out of date. ......

We have no effective way to prove what work the o/p is carrying out Jules, apart from his statement that he is rectifying shoddy work done at some prior stage by someone else.
It's quite true that new caravans have for some time been issued with NICEIC certification which must be professionally updated if any electrical work is done by an unqualified person but I have found no evidence that would show that the present legislation concerning electrical certification would apply to older touring caravans which were never certificated at the manufacturing stage and haven't been since.
The PIR testing regime introduced by the NCC and which some regard as a commercial strategy is not legally binding on older tourers unless there has been a test case that no one is aware of?
Current editions of the electrical regulations which affect domestic, factory or even static caravan installations do not apply to uncertified touring caravans.
Any site owner can legally refuse or demand pretty much anything they want to within reason, I've yet to see evidence of sites, even those run by the two main clubs, actually asking anyone for their electrical certificate before they hook up, although if something was visibly and obviously dangerous my previous statement regarding refusal of entry would apply in any case.

 

[Thingy]

Just being the devils advocate here, but considering the "nice family" didnt bother to tell you that Dr. Frankenstein had rewired this thing, have you actually been round it with a damp meter?

In my experience if people are prepared to hide one fault, there will likely be others.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Parksy,

I'm sure that Damain would concur, that whilst there is no duty for pre existing wiring to be updated to comply with current legislation, any new additions do have to comply.

However if the installation fitter identifies and old system as being inadequate or even dangerous they should not make the connection until the system can be deemed safe.

If all the OP is doing is replacing pre-existing original fittings then no further action should be necessary, but if the system is being changed or extended then the new works should be compliant with current regulations.

This is why when people opt to have a new kitchen fitted in older properties, part of the works often entails having a new consumer unit fitted.

This is nothing new, and has been the case for many years.

Whilst you tell us you have found no evidence that touring caravans are subject to these regulations, I counter that with I have seen no evidence they are exempt, and during my training in these matters we were told they should comply.

The exemptions for gas works in touring caravans are not the same as for electrical work, and should not be confused.

Now regardless of the legalities, I'm sure every right minded person would want to do good work, but the problem can be that with (edit) no malice intended, working with insufficient knowledge, some issues may not be properly addressed. It is surely good sense to have any new works checked.

 

[Damian]

I will not go into EICR (or PIR as they were initially termed) as they are not a legal requirement but "should" be done at regular intervals.
The wording is the relevant factor.
"Should" is NOT a legal requirement.
"Will" and "Shall" ARE legal requirements.

Electrical work on caravans is covered in BS7671, Requirements for Electrical Installations, Section 721

Any electrical work must however be accompanied by a Certificate of Conformation.
Changing a single socket or light switch , like for like is exempt, but any substantial work such as replacing complete systems must be certified as being safe to use by a qualified electrician.

As far as gas systems are concerned, whilst it is not illegal for a person to do any work themselves on their own caravan, any work MUST comply with the relevant regulations.
It is totally ILLEGAL for a Gas Safe Registered engineer to certify ANY work not actually done by himself.
He CANNOT certify work done by anyone else.

 

[Woodentop]

I will not go into EICR (or PIR as they were initially termed) as they are not a legal requirement but "should" be done at regular intervals.
The wording is the relevant factor.
"Should" is NOT a legal requirement.
"Will" and "Shall" ARE legal requirements.

Electrical work on caravans is covered in BS7671, Requirements for Electrical Installations, Section 721

Any electrical work must however be accompanied by a Certificate of Conformation.
Changing a single socket or light switch , like for like is exempt, but any substantial work such as replacing complete systems must be certified as being safe to use by a qualified electrician.

As far as gas systems are concerned, whilst it is not illegal for a person to do any work themselves on their own caravan, any work MUST comply with the relevant regulations.
It is totally ILLEGAL for a Gas Safe Registered engineer to certify ANY work not actually done by himself.
He CANNOT certify work done by anyone else.

I would totally agree with Damian and would add one point that the Prof may have overlooked. Part P regs (which is largely what we are talking about) allow mods to wiring, domestic or otherwise, without certification. Specifically the addition of spurs from a ring main. Where then does this leave us given that caravan wiring is not in ring formation?

 

[jetskiadam]

Isn't all the OP is doing is performing like for like swaps/updating on the pre-existing equipment?

Exactly that, no material changes, just renewals.

Also to clarify, I have no intention of carrying out any work on the gas system, my (lpg ticketed, gas safe qualified) friend tells me it's safe and good to go so that's good enough for me.

Also I have no intentions on working on the 240v system.

Also to clarify, I value everyone's input to this thread, it has been interesting and most informative and while I now have a better idea what I legally can and can't do, it appears to me that nothing that I have done is illegal or dodgy in any way. I will however have an electrician check my work for piece of mind.

Now everything in the caravan that I need to work does work I am happy, I am immensely proud that I have managed to get it as far as I have so I am going to stop worrying about everything else and go and enjoy my weekends away. As I've said before, it's a cheap, 24 year old caravan, if a couple of interior lights don't work, I can live with that, if there's a wee bit damp I expect it and accept it. I can't see/feel/smell any though and I'm certainly not going looking for any. That's why I didn't pay a lot of money for it, so I can be a bit more relaxed about it all. If I'd paid several thousand it would be a different matter, but I didn't.

Thanks again for all input

Adam

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

......

Also I have no intentions on working on the 240v system................

............. I will however have an electrician check my work for piece of mind.

Isn't this a contradiction?

 

[jetskiadam]

Not really. It's the 12v system I've worked on

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

OK, understand now.

 

[DrZhivago]

Personally, I would have much more confidence in these supposed demi-gods of officially qualified electricians and gas fitters if i had not witnessed at first hand examples of their incompetence; including by a gas fitter from the leading gas maintenance company around my area.

I won't go into the details of that expensive foul-up, but another example is that my daughter recently asked me to be present during an electrical inspection of her house by an officially qualified electrician. I intervened when he started demanding a ridiculous list of work to be done (by himself of course) and he then retracted much of it rather red-faced and started mumbling about "grey areas". I did readily agree with him on some points, but the final work and bill was some hundreds less than it would have been if I had not been there.

Trouble is, like the MoT test for cars, the testers are not independent and are often just touting for work. The system is rather corrupt and self-serving, but politicians make the laws and politicians are the most impractical people on earth - they regard DiY activity as shady, dirty and verging on criminal.

I would always counter-check any work done by any of those professionals. BTW, the OP in this thread made no mention of gas work, although the replies have treated us to a lot of advice on the subject.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh dear, dear,

I understand the sentiments the Dr has expressed, but it's wrong to condemn the vast majority of honest people who genuinely work with customers in mind.

Most of these people have invested time, effort and considerable money to attain the qualifications and certification to enable them to legally undertake these specialist services. Unfortunately the general public only see these people working and doing certain tasks, which on the face of it may seem quite simple, but that is the end of the process and belies the knowledge and experience they have employed to decide what needs to be done, and the the important safety testing they need to do to complete the job.

The proof of this pudding is the overall safety record of our energy services have, especially compared to some of our foreign cousins.

I am probably to blame for the inclusion of references to gas in caravans in this thread. I did so for two reasons. The first is that whilst the post is primarily a response to the OP's questions, Its highly likely that other like minded readers will read the thread, and because anyone who is renovating a touring caravan is likely to encounter issues with both electrics and gas. Again the general public are frequently unaware of the legal bounds that apply to working with these energy systems, and the approved methods of working with them. The consequences of getting wrong can be fatal!

I have seen too many examples of incompetent DIY interventions in gas systems and frankly I don't want to see any more, so its only by educating and spreading the word that we can reduce the number of further unfortunate incidents.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Oh dear, dear,

I understand the sentiments the Dr has expressed, but it's wrong to condemn the vast majority of honest people who genuinely work with customers in mind.

yes, oh dear dear john, why do you keep churning out this trust the professionals because DIY'er are a bunch of incompetant amature morons, rubbish. in the same post. be aware fine, but come on it gets annoying everytime.

yes some DIYers do take on more than they are prepared for, but the vast majority are quite capable or they would not even start, just because someone does something for a living, does not mean they don't make mistakes. professionalism isn't just a word, it an art, strike out the bonuses for finishing early number of jobs done a day, rushing to finish a job so they can get home to the kids. add also the fact that certificates can be obtained via the net, and not all tradesmen are time served masters of their art but just do a job get paid and move on merchants, like the Dr I have seen more bodge jobs by so called professionals it is hard to believe. it is one of the reasons I took up DIY because a well done worked out project that one takes time over. beats a throw it on gimmie the money pro any day.
so come on not all pros are great and not all DIYers are idiots. OK.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,

I totally agree that there will be some very competent DIYers, but some are demonstrably aren't, and the consequences of their ill informed actions have been incredibly serious.

Historically, we have a very good safety record of the uk energy industries, But the historic results are because we have had a highly regulated industry which has been overwhelmingly successful at preventing untoward incidents. That has made us become rather complacent about it and in some case quite disparaging about it even being mentioned.

Would you like to pitch up next to a caravan that is an electrical or fire hazard or a death trap because someone has failed to fit an appliance correctly? I also have admit that not all so called professionals are always fully competent. Some will make mistakes, but we have to have some faith in the training and accreditation processes. We only get to hear of the bad ones because it's human nature to complain about the negative experiences rather than to praise satisfactory ones.

In all walks of life you will get people with a range of abilities. At the extreme ends of that range, some will cope superbly with the tasks in hand and others will frankly make a pigs ear out of it. I am certain that there are more good professionals than bad ones. When you can't resolve a problem it's a better bet to use a 'professional', rather than fly by the seat of your pants.

Without specific reference to this thread,- We only have the posted information on which to base our opinions and judgements about the questioners ability or understanding of the subject in hand.

We see many examples of questions asked in such a way that it leaves a serious nagging doubt about the questioners understanding of the systems involved and thus their competence to actually carry out the work on it.

When that involves hazardous processes or where there are legal implications, it is appropriate to remind readers of the risks by citing examples. If this stops one person from making a serious mistake, it's worth it.

It may not be a popular stance, but it's in all our interests to promote safety and good practice, and often it needs shock tactics to bring this message home. I'm delighted if you no longer need to be reminded of the dangers, but my response was not written with just you in mind, but the wider readership of the forum some of whom will be new or not as confident as yourself about these matters.

 

[Parksy]

I admire and support your reminders about safety to potentially disastrous D-I-Y enthusiasts Prof, but my personal opinion is that if incompetent bodge merchants doesn't recognise their own limitations they are unlikely to read or to take note of any advice posted on a caravan forum.
Generally speaking, and to cover most forum gripes in one fell swoop, these bodge merchants are likely to be the ones we read about who insist that they don't need towing mirrors, they use the outside lane on motorways and exceed speed limits everywhere with overloaded outfits.
On site they party in their badly erected awning until the early hours while their dogs bark and children run wild.
Caravan related incidents occur almost daily on our roads during the summer months and there have been some tragic events which are thankfully rare with regard to touring caravans.
The trouble is that nobody could know for sure who they are pitched next to but really old and obviously dangerous touring caravans are becoming rarer from what I've seen as I'm out and about on various sites.
This may well be due to increased interest in so-called retro caravans, whereby older salvageable tourers are being refurbished to a high standard adding greatly increased value, or it may even be due to increased awareness of potential buyers because of the rapid expansion of social media on the internet.
Most forum users do so because they share or seek advice although the administrators of this website accept no responsibility, legal or moral, for advice offered or ignored.