Hi, newbie with towing weight question.

[Raywood]

I cant see a problem here as long as the trailer wieght is kept to 1300kg.It might be 100% but as we are reminded its only a recomendation.Load the van and wiegh it,forget the mtplm as you hopefully wont load as high as it.If the van and car was empty you wouldnt have a problem so just take the bare minimum.

I am afraid the law requires the B+E licence if the plated maximum weight of the car and trailer exceed 3,500 kg and not loading them to capacity is not an alternative nor is keeping the load on the caravan relevant you have to assume the maximum figures. You can still be prosecuted without exceeding the weight limits these days. I think this is because prosecuting someone after an accident would be impossible if they had to prove the weight of a wrecked trailer.
If you can change the car and have not yet found the caravan then a car with a higher towing capacity is the best bet as it will give you more choice assuming you get the B+E licence.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

...... a car with a higher towing capacity is the best bet as it will give you more choice assuming you get the B+E licence.

Be careful with this advice as my car has a towing capacity of 1800 kg but a Mass In Service of 1603 kg. I wouldn't want to tow an 1800 kg caravan, as it would be 112%. As a new tugger I would still suggest you stay at about 85% for the caravan weight.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As I have stated previously the most sensible thing to do is to get the B+e, which I am led to believe you will automatically get if you pass your C+e test But do check with the driving school etc. That will eliminate any practical restriction on the combined MAM requirement. As things stand at the moment it would be illegal to drive the outfit without the BE or B+e category.

On the face of it a caravan of 1350kg is 50kg to heavy for the Zafira THe suggestion of losing 50kg of payload capacity to keep the overall weight down is quite a lot of lost capacity and I suspect would prove to be quite difficult in practice.

But things are not quite a bleak as they might first appear.

HNB quotes the maximum permissible towed weight of his Zafira to be 1300kg. From a web site the ULW of the Zafira is 1558kg (or sligtly more depending on trim levels) which gives a towing ratio capacity of 83% or better which is well within the industry guidelines.

The caravan HNB has been considering has an MTPLM of 1350kg, which on the face of it is more than the Zaffras 1300kg limit, but we must not forget the cars stated limit is the TOWED weight, which actually equates to the caravans axle load, not its whole weight. The whole weight of a trailer is its axle load plus its nose load, and combined these must not exceed the trailers MTPLM.

Zafiras have a nose load capacity of 75kg. This load is not towed but carried by the car and must be accounted for in the cars loads, so the actual towed load is only what is carried by the trailers axles.

You must not load your caravan beyond a its MTPLM of 1350kg. But assuming you do max out its capacity at 1350, you will need to balance it to give it between 52 and 75kg nose weight which will reduce its axle load to between 1275 to 1300kg which is within the Zafira's towed load limit, and of course if you don't load the caravan to MTPLM you will be well within the car's capability.

So the car and caravan are possible and legal for a driver BE or B+e licences. But not suitable for a Cat B only licence holder.

 

[HNB]

WOW, has it really been that long since i last posted!

Anyways, a few changes have happened, i now have passed my class 1 (c+e) so that has given me my coach and trailer and more importantly my car and trailer (b+e) so no worries on going over 3500kg any more.

i have also changed my car, not a zafira vxr like intended but a zafira tourer cdti (165) with a towing limit of 1450kg and a maximum weight of 2430kg and then 3955kg (persuming this is car and trailer)

so this should see my able to use/get the caravan i want (bailey ranger gt60 540/6, 1350kg mam)

 

[ProfJohnL]

OK and good luck

 

[Raywood]

Looks a good combination so good luck and hope you enjoy the caravan..

 

[HNB]

well another old thread revival from me lol...

just fitted (finally) a towbar to my zaf tourer ready, and have just aquired (well pick up in 2 weeks) the caravan we was kind of after.

we was after a bailey ranger gt60 540/6 originally but then saw a nice bailey ranger 540/6 s5, this having a lower tow weight of 1300kg (instead of 1350kg from other model) so intheory giving us a better weight for luggage etc in the car (if im right?)

so looking forward to getting out and about...

just been sorting out storage and insurance today...

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello HNB,

What makes you think that a lighter trailer will give you more load capacity in the car?

 

[HNB]

because surely it reduces the max combined weight the car can have handle?

im useless with all this weights stuff lol

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi again,

If a car is specified as being able to tow a trailer its Gross Train Weight (GTW) will be provided on the cars data plate. It will always be bigger than the cars Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and the difference between the two figures is the towed weight margin.

Just because a vehicle tows a trailer or caravan, does not change the individual limits for the car, so the cars GVW and its maximum axle loads still apply. This means you cannot shift load from the trailer to the car if by doing so it causes the car to exceed any of its solo limits. But you must also take into account that when towing the nose load of the trailer is applied to the car and forms part of the cars load, so if a car were fully loaded to its solo limits and then a trailers is attached , the trailers nose load would increase the load on the car and would be exceeding the cars legal limits.

Do not forget there are other limits to consider as well, These should be included in the cars detailed specification, things like max roof load, max boot load, and how the nose load of a trailer reduces available boot load or passenger load.

 

[HNB]

the way i mean is, if iv saved 50kg off the towing vehicle,and say my cars max was 3000kg combined, that means iv taken 50kg out of the caravan and put into the car (without going over the cars limit combined and single max weight)

i get what i mean, its hard to explain...i may be wrong though (most prob am lol)

 

[ProfJohnL]

the way i mean is, if iv saved 50kg off the towing vehicle,and say my cars max was 3000kg combined, that means iv taken 50kg out of the caravan and put into the car (without going over the cars limit combined and single max weight)

i get what i mean, its hard to explain...i may be wrong though (most prob am lol)

Hello HNB,

I think I understand your suggestion, and if I have understood it correctly then yes you would be correct, BUT its not certain, becasue Whilst in theory if you take the cars Maximum authorised weight and subtract its UnLaden Weigh you should in theory know its payload, But whilst the GVW or MAM of the car is an absolute, the ULW is more of a guess than a certainty, This is due to the number of unremovable items that can get fitted to different model variations, and its far from impossible to find a cars real ULW is different to its published figure easily by 20 to 30kg if not more. So if you are trying to use the full capacity of the cars theoretical load allowance you could easily underestimate the cars weight and actually be overloaded. So dont try too hard to use the cars full weight capacity.

Good towing is not controlled by just one factor such as towing ratio, it about getting a range of factors under control, of particular note is the correct distribution of load inside the caravan, and the driving style, I'd argue these are more important than strict observance of the weight ratio's guidance .

 

[HNB]

thanks, i understand what you mean.

any good tips on bet loading/distribution in the caravan?

i usually put waterwaste/aquaroll in toilet, some bedding under back seats and then some under front (with them been lighter but equal amount at front and back) then any other stuff on floor over axle.

 

[Raywood]

The basic idea is heavy objects should be as low down as possible, on the floor if you can and as near the centre as you can manage. You may have to move these forward or back though to get the noseweight you need but try to avoid putting them right at the back as this can cause instability. Putting heavy things higher up moves the centre of gravity up which is also undesirable.
In our case the Aquaroll and waste container are not that heavy so location is not vital as long as they cannot move when travelling.
Lighter objects can be placed higher up if need be.
If you load heavy items in the car boot do watch that you do not overload the back axle.

 

[Hutch]

In My Opinion, (IMO), it take many many trips out to get the correct balance for your specific caravan, for a year or so , I would carry our waste roll, in the shower at the back of the caravan and a water roll in the back toilet, hook up cable above the axle. This gave me "The Dreaded" nose weight of about 75 kg. After a serious snake passing an HGV, On the return trip home I moved aqua rolls (2) and the waste carrier, to the front between the lounge seats and moved he hook up cable forward as well, nose weight about 90 kg now, my limit is 100 kg. And the van tows much, much better. Just be aware how you stow thing in the van.
Hutch.

 

[HNB]

thanks guys.

whats best way to measure nose weight?

atm the hook up leads (got 2 now as caravan came with 1) are in front locker where gas bottle is kept also.

 

[Hutch]

 

[ProfJohnL]

It should be obvious that when a caravan is coupled to a car the load the hitch applies to the car causes the car's suspension to drop and how much will depend on the applied load.

It is not always obvious but the load a trailer hitch actually produces changes if you raise or lower the hitch. There are good scientific reasons which i can explain if you wish but it simpler just to accept it. This fact is recognised by the authorities which is why they stipulate the nose load must be measured at its working height.

Load your car exactly as if you are ready to set off with all luggage and passengers.

Find a level (horizontal) stretch of surface thats long enough for your whole car and caravan.

Come to halt in a straight line, Measure the height of the hitch from the road and remember it or record it.

Uncouple the caraan and chock the wheels so they don't roll. but leave the brake off.

Using the jockey wheel readjust the hitch to the measured height, and then using the doorstep some magazines on the step to support a set of bathroom scales which will just slide under the hitch.

Raise the jockey wheel so the hitch is now resting on the scales and read the nose load.

The vast majority of so called nose load gauges do not adjust of the height of the hitch, and their graduations, accuracy, and consistency will be worse than the method Ive suggested.

 

[HNB]

thanks, nice helpfull lil tip that

 

[otherclive]

It should be obvious that when a caravan is coupled to a car the load the hitch applies to the car causes the car's suspension to drop and how much will depend on the applied load.

It is not always obvious but the load a trailer hitch actually produces changes if you raise or lower the hitch. There are good scientific reasons which i can explain if you wish but it simpler just to accept it. This fact is recognised by the authorities which is why they stipulate the nose load must be measured at its working height.

Load your car exactly as if you are ready to set off with all luggage and passengers.

Find a level (horizontal) stretch of surface thats long enough for your whole car and caravan.

Come to halt in a straight line, Measure the height of the hitch from the road and remember it or record it.

Uncouple the caraan and chock the wheels so they don't roll. but leave the brake off.

Using the jockey wheel readjust the hitch to the measured height, and then using the doorstep some magazines on the step to support a set of bathroom scales which will just slide under the hitch.

Raise the jockey wheel so the hitch is now resting on the scales and read the nose load.

The vast majority of so called nose load gauges do not adjust of the height of the hitch, and their graduations, accuracy, and consistency will be worse than the method Ive suggested.

A good set of bathroom scales used as per Prof John's advice will be the most accurate. I have just done six flights with cases at a combined weight of 38.2 kg as measured on the bathroom scales with me holding each case separately whilst standing on the scales. So my 100kg and a case was around 119kg. When checking in for each flight the cases were weighed together at the desk, and at no point were the airlines total weight of two cases any more than 0.6kg different to the weights as measured by me.