Looks like rain and strong winds are set for a while and I'm going away on Friday. I've towed a few times but never in these sort of conditions and am starting to get worried. Several motorways to go on, including M25. Any advice on towing in strong winds. Is there a limit when the wind is just to strong and I shouldn't go. I have a Bailey Pageant Imperial and tow with a Vectra 1.8.
High Winds and towing
- Thread starter Lynda_5096508
- Start date
if the wind is so severe it would cause problems to high sided vehicles,then i personally would not venture with the van.have been caught in really windy conditions and beleive me its not for the faint hearted.its a lot of money youve got behind you,as well as the car and the occupants and there safety is paramount.have seen caravans lifted off the floor in high winds,as well as been blown over and its really not worth it at all
i wouldnt worry about the M25 on a Friday ,you will only be crawling along any way ,thats why its known as Londons largest car park ,on a serious note it can be quite nerve racking if your not used to it ,its the sudden gusts that come from nowhere that take you by supprise ,we came along the M4 last Friday in high winds covering 218 miles and there were plenty of caravans on the roads with no incidents reported ,i would say keep a look out for open and exposed areas where the wind can hit you full on
As long as you stick to the 85% kerbweight rule and pack your van properly with all heavy items as low down as possible then you should have no problems. Just take it easy and slow down on exposed areas of countryside.
Lynda.
Just keep the speed down if the winds are high !
Any potential problem from high winds will worsen if your speed is up in general.
Try and get your time on the M25 over between 10 am and 2pm or after 8pm if you can.
What areas are you heading from and to?
Getting off the motorway can be a better option sometimes in high winds. M25 is my area so give a clue and maybe able to offer good quick viable alternative.
Just keep the speed down if the winds are high !
Any potential problem from high winds will worsen if your speed is up in general.
Try and get your time on the M25 over between 10 am and 2pm or after 8pm if you can.
What areas are you heading from and to?
Getting off the motorway can be a better option sometimes in high winds. M25 is my area so give a clue and maybe able to offer good quick viable alternative.
As long as you stick to the 85% kerbweight rule and pack your van properly with all heavy items as low down as possible then you should have no problems. Just take it easy and slow down on exposed areas of countryside.
Expect twitchiness when coming out of a sheltered area like a cutting into an exposed stretch of road like an embankment or a bridge, especially when going downhill at the same time. Ease off the throttle as you approach such conditions.
Hello Lynda,
MMMM comment about high sided vehicles is very sensible, If you think about it a caravan is mainly full of air and it has relatively high sides, it can be easily disturbed by strong winds, especially on exposed road such as motorways and bridges.
Sadly I cannot agree with Graeme's contention that keeping to the 85% guideline will prevent problems with wind, in fact the lighter the van is the more it is likely to be affected.
Incidentally the 85% is not a rule it is only guideline - however it does make a lot of sense especially for novice towers.
MMMM comment about high sided vehicles is very sensible, If you think about it a caravan is mainly full of air and it has relatively high sides, it can be easily disturbed by strong winds, especially on exposed road such as motorways and bridges.
Sadly I cannot agree with Graeme's contention that keeping to the 85% guideline will prevent problems with wind, in fact the lighter the van is the more it is likely to be affected.
Incidentally the 85% is not a rule it is only guideline - however it does make a lot of sense especially for novice towers.
John, the point I was trying to make was that a sensibly loaded van with an adequate tow vehicle should have 'few' problems in windy weather.
I know the 85% figure is not a rule but only a guideline but it is quoted in most caravan related topics relating to outfit matching. Stick to this and your outfit should be stable - no tail wagging the dog scenario's.
I know there will be some people out there who have lost a caravan in windy weather - but how many do you actually know about. If people did not tow in windy weather there would be few vans on the road each weekend!
I do agree that you need to be carefull in windy conditions - but don't let put you off towing.
I know the 85% figure is not a rule but only a guideline but it is quoted in most caravan related topics relating to outfit matching. Stick to this and your outfit should be stable - no tail wagging the dog scenario's.
I know there will be some people out there who have lost a caravan in windy weather - but how many do you actually know about. If people did not tow in windy weather there would be few vans on the road each weekend!
I do agree that you need to be carefull in windy conditions - but don't let put you off towing.
I think the point that John was trying to make is that staying below the 85% recommendation does not guarantee a stable outfit just as being above that figure isn't automatically unsafe. The best safeguard, apart from technical features like ESP+, is still driver alertness. Being able to think ahead of possible hazards and to react accordingly is the best form of protection.
I don't understand, if you stick to the 85% guideline and your caravan is loaded correctly then why should the outfit not be stable?
Because there are so many factors which determine stability of an outfit apart from the weight ratio, some of which are equally important, Graeme. Besides, the 85% figure is totally arbitrary. Obviously, 80% is going to give you a greater margin of safety than 85% and 90% less but there's no magical figure where one can say for certain that exceeding the outfit will suddenly become unsafe.
Thanks Lutz. By other things that affect stability, do you mean things like the overhang behind the wheels of the towcar, caravan tyres, aerodyanamics of the van etc.
Yes. Speed is probably the most important factor. Although no-one wants to be labelled as a dawdler, stability suffers disproportionately with speed once you go much over about 50mph and an otherwise docile outfit can get really difficult to handle at speeds of about 70mph.
However, there are even more factors than those that you have already mentioned. Driver alertness is one. A driver who is able to sense the beginnings of impending instability and to be able to react immediately and correctly is likely to be able to handle a higher weight ratio than 85% even in windy conditions (after all, that's why 85% is the recommended maximum for a novice).
The size (not just weight) and the height of the centre of gravity also play a big role. That's why caravans are much more critical than low loader trailers where weight ratios of up to 130-140% can be towed quite safely, given the right equipment.
However, there are even more factors than those that you have already mentioned. Driver alertness is one. A driver who is able to sense the beginnings of impending instability and to be able to react immediately and correctly is likely to be able to handle a higher weight ratio than 85% even in windy conditions (after all, that's why 85% is the recommended maximum for a novice).
The size (not just weight) and the height of the centre of gravity also play a big role. That's why caravans are much more critical than low loader trailers where weight ratios of up to 130-140% can be towed quite safely, given the right equipment.
With the speed issue, what are your opinions on driving in France at 70mph on the autoroutes.
I followed a caravan dealers Nissan Outback 2.5 diesel the other day towing a van at about 70mph and the outfit appeared to be very stable even though it was windy.
I followed a caravan dealers Nissan Outback 2.5 diesel the other day towing a van at about 70mph and the outfit appeared to be very stable even though it was windy.
Graham I've towed down through France at 70mph with 7 people in a V Class and our old Bessacar twin axle. I was very dubious until on a sunny day with 400 + miles to do we just rolled along the Autoroute without a twitch or wobble and have averaged about 70 miles in an hour . Weather good, van well loaded and with a big car punching a big hole in the air we my wife even drove and found herself relaxed and happy as she found the car settled at 70mph without her rearly realising how fast she had got to. We've had loads of Continentals pass us going far faster than 8O with some large vans in tow. It depends on wind and weather the way your van is loaded, and you have to respect the signs for cross winds and down hill speed warnings.
I feel a lot of the stability is down to the size of the tow vehicle and the hole it punches to take the van through though.
I feel a lot of the stability is down to the size of the tow vehicle and the hole it punches to take the van through though.
It's hard to generalise. Under otherwise ideal conditions, one may be able to tow safely at 70mph but the threshold of when things start to go wrong can vary from outfit to outfit and it can set in very suddenly. I've towed my caravan at about 85mph for a short stretch with no other traffic around just to see how it handled and it was OK but I've also experienced instability about to happen under other conditions at speeds much lower than that. For that reason I find the French speed limit on the whole irresponsible and thankfully no other country has followed suit. But it does appear that the French are learning as they have introduced lower speed limits for caravans on many downhill stretches of their autoroutes.
The fact that in the case of an accident in France involving a German outfit, German insurances will not pay for claims if proved that it was going at over 100kph (60mph), even though the legal speed limit allows more, I think supports my view.
The fact that in the case of an accident in France involving a German outfit, German insurances will not pay for claims if proved that it was going at over 100kph (60mph), even though the legal speed limit allows more, I think supports my view.
Thank you Lutz for defending my point of view,
Graeme,
It has been said on this and many other threads, there are many factors that will affect the stability of an outfit, You mention some, and there are many more, each contributes in differing proportions depending on the combination of tow vehicle and trailer.
It is a complex process, and to rely on a simple weight ratio of car to trailer, is to ignore the other factors which in total can exceed the effect of the ratio by its self. Other major influences are:
The driver,
Speed
Balance of the trailer,
Road surface,
Wind conditions,
Tyre pressure, / condition,
Suspension stiffness,
Suspension sag,
Overhang
this list is far from exhaustive,
It is dangerous to assume that by meeting the 85% ratio an outfit will be automatically safe and stable. I venture to suggest that it is possible to upset the stability of any 85% outfit through the actions of the driver.
I seem to recall from a long time back on this forum, a posting that found a particular combination of tow vehicle and caravan that was a real handful yet it fell within the 85% ratio, and others have posted in this thread that some outfits at 85% have remained stable at well above the UK speed limits. Others report that ratio's above 85% have proven to be stable. So the 85% figure is not a holy grail, but a sensible target, but as always the driver must be alert to the possibility of difficulties.
Graeme,
It has been said on this and many other threads, there are many factors that will affect the stability of an outfit, You mention some, and there are many more, each contributes in differing proportions depending on the combination of tow vehicle and trailer.
It is a complex process, and to rely on a simple weight ratio of car to trailer, is to ignore the other factors which in total can exceed the effect of the ratio by its self. Other major influences are:
The driver,
Speed
Balance of the trailer,
Road surface,
Wind conditions,
Tyre pressure, / condition,
Suspension stiffness,
Suspension sag,
Overhang
this list is far from exhaustive,
It is dangerous to assume that by meeting the 85% ratio an outfit will be automatically safe and stable. I venture to suggest that it is possible to upset the stability of any 85% outfit through the actions of the driver.
I seem to recall from a long time back on this forum, a posting that found a particular combination of tow vehicle and caravan that was a real handful yet it fell within the 85% ratio, and others have posted in this thread that some outfits at 85% have remained stable at well above the UK speed limits. Others report that ratio's above 85% have proven to be stable. So the 85% figure is not a holy grail, but a sensible target, but as always the driver must be alert to the possibility of difficulties.
Hi Lynda,
We have corresponded before I have the same outfit as you Imperial towed by a Vectra.
Driving in very windy conditions I drop the speed down to 50mph,
The big 6 wheeled tractor trailer lorries that hug the roads do not worry me its the high sided white vans which roughly occupy the same airspace as the caravan can cause the van to twitch slightly as they roar past at 70mph plus.Towed the van for over 4 years now good test of nerves is to drive over the A66 from Scots corner to Penrith during windy conditions.
I always load the van with the waste container between the inline seats with the chairs on top, all the heavy gear loaded over the axles in front of the fridge. to stop the heavy objects moving forward.I have a modified a broom handle covered in the foam lagging that you cover pipes with, across the van just in front of the fridge behind the seats and the seat opposite.
never had any movement in all the journeys.
On the M 25 I use quite a lot living in Essex, when towing I find keeping in the inner lane gets you around far quicker as everybody uses the overtaking lanes.
Have a great holiday.
Roy
We have corresponded before I have the same outfit as you Imperial towed by a Vectra.
Driving in very windy conditions I drop the speed down to 50mph,
The big 6 wheeled tractor trailer lorries that hug the roads do not worry me its the high sided white vans which roughly occupy the same airspace as the caravan can cause the van to twitch slightly as they roar past at 70mph plus.Towed the van for over 4 years now good test of nerves is to drive over the A66 from Scots corner to Penrith during windy conditions.
I always load the van with the waste container between the inline seats with the chairs on top, all the heavy gear loaded over the axles in front of the fridge. to stop the heavy objects moving forward.I have a modified a broom handle covered in the foam lagging that you cover pipes with, across the van just in front of the fridge behind the seats and the seat opposite.
never had any movement in all the journeys.
On the M 25 I use quite a lot living in Essex, when towing I find keeping in the inner lane gets you around far quicker as everybody uses the overtaking lanes.
Have a great holiday.
Roy
As usual with all driving you have to have the sense to adjust speed and distances etc with traffic flow + road and weather conditions and what weight you are carrying and towing. Many tow in this country at 70 mph, I know as a caravanner I normally observe other wans on the road.
I followed three UK vans back from Dover at the weekend and all three were at 68 mph( cars seedo's probably indicated 70mph) and much to close together! I see this quite often!
I followed three UK vans back from Dover at the weekend and all three were at 68 mph( cars seedo's probably indicated 70mph) and much to close together! I see this quite often!
having read all the comments and took them on board,the question asked was about towing in high winds.although john lists numerous things we should be aware of,what do we class as high winds.yes ive drove in windy conditions,gale force actually,unfortunately had no choice at the time but luckily made it to a sevice station and parked between high sided lorries for around 6 hours till it subsided,now them sort of conditions you should not be driving in unles you are absolutely mad.certainly there are windy conditions (not severe)that taking a caravan on the road would be acceptabley safe,but there are wids that are not.at the end of the day its personal choice.some people disregard safety and just go ahead anyway with disastrous repercussions.no matter how safety concious you are with your caravan,loading etc,a strong wind has no mercy and all should be aware.
Recently witnessed a guy weaving in and out of heavy traffic on the M1, He must have hit around a 100mph a couple of time and it was wet as well.
After 25 or so miles of madness he was about 6 cars behind me as he tuened off.
I Drive, Tow and Ride Bikes and some will never learn or slow for rain, laying water etc etc.
If the car and van is getting buffeted about and it is hard to steer and keep the rig in a straight line or the whole rig keeps getting pushed sideways as you pass parts of the road where you get exposed to sudden side wind gusts surely some little cog in your head tells you it is time to slow down or park up between some big trucks or something else.
Large trucks and vans and other cars are also a good pointer, if they are getting blown about it is pretty sure your car and van is going to move about in the wind.
Some will remain head down fighting the steering wheel with their right foot buried to the floor and often with poorly loaded vans in tow.
After 25 or so miles of madness he was about 6 cars behind me as he tuened off.
I Drive, Tow and Ride Bikes and some will never learn or slow for rain, laying water etc etc.
If the car and van is getting buffeted about and it is hard to steer and keep the rig in a straight line or the whole rig keeps getting pushed sideways as you pass parts of the road where you get exposed to sudden side wind gusts surely some little cog in your head tells you it is time to slow down or park up between some big trucks or something else.
Large trucks and vans and other cars are also a good pointer, if they are getting blown about it is pretty sure your car and van is going to move about in the wind.
Some will remain head down fighting the steering wheel with their right foot buried to the floor and often with poorly loaded vans in tow.
Hear! Hear, Klarky! What you say is only too true. The problem starts, however, in deciding whether the wind is still manageable or whether the threshold of safe driving, even with extreme care and caution, has been exceeded. What one person considers OK, someone else will think as beyond the safe limit. It's a bit like the perennial question whether it is safe to tow at close to 100% or even higher. Where do you draw the line?
A caravan ban would also be difficult to enforce legally in windy conditions. Nobody has any way of checking wind speed, especially as local conditions can change very rapidly.
A caravan ban would also be difficult to enforce legally in windy conditions. Nobody has any way of checking wind speed, especially as local conditions can change very rapidly.
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