Honda CRV later models

[Tobes]

I don't think he has ever tried it and is probably going by the marketing literature. However if the weight of the battery were removed the mpg would probably increase and get more on a tankful than the 35 miles the battery may offer? Just my opinion.

You probably can't try on battery alone if it's a simple hybrid. But if you could range would likely be less than 3 miles and limited to about 40mph. The hybrid battery probably only weighs a few kg. Would you get better mileage without it. just by saving weight? The answer is "no" and of course hybrids exist because of that answer. The battery and motor are there to absorb kinetic energy while braking, and deliver acceleration when moving off. In towns, this works very well. On a long run at constant speed - not so much. But MPG figures for hybrids are generally (in the real world) better than straight ICE.

 

[Tobes]

Do you know why? Not alarm bells I hope😥😥

Depends on whose bells. For the manufacturers (PSA in this case) I believe they realise that smaller new EVs are over priced compared to their fossil fuel counterparts, and with a fine if they don't sell enough, they are making strides to bring them in line via discounts at the dealer level. It makes for some fantastic looking deals, and the EV price is now close to the petrol price, all be it for a much higher performance car (the EV).

For used - I thing Prof has already hit this on the head. There are lots of 4 and 3 year company lease and sal-sac cars coming to the end of their deal, and hitting the market. My youngest's Vauxhall Corsa-E was one such car. She bought it (on PCP) at just under 4 years old on a 20 plate for £12k with just 16K miles on the clock. It's in very good condition and is showing 100% battery health, with the 4 year balance of the battery warranty left. The Mokka E and Peugeot E 2008 are on the same drive train, but the bigger SUV style body. The E2008 is a very nice interior IMHO.

If you can charge at home (have a drive and access to power) it can make for very cheap motoring.

 

[Buckman]

You probably can't try on battery alone if it's a simple hybrid. But if you could range would likely be less than 3 miles and limited to about 40mph. The hybrid battery probably only weighs a few kg. Would you get better mileage without it. just by saving weight? The answer is "no" and of course hybrids exist because of that answer. The battery and motor are there to absorb kinetic energy while braking, and deliver acceleration when moving off. In towns, this works very well. On a long run at constant speed - not so much. But MPG figures for hybrids are generally (in the real world) better than straight ICE.

Strange that he only gets a couple of miles extra per gallon than our 3L Jeep? I am not disputing any of your facts. Their car cans run on battery only. I think it is either a 2022 or early 2023?

 

[otherclive]

Strange that he only gets a couple of miles extra per gallon than our 3L Jeep? I am not disputing any of your facts. Their car cans run on battery only. I think it is either a 2022 or early 2023?

If it’s a non plug in hybrid it will be similar to my daughters Corolla and it can pull away in electric mode but has virtually zero all electric range. A battery of only around 1 kw will not give 35 miles range as stated in your earlier post. But as for economy close to that of your diesel Jeep that’s not surprising given those Forumites with Touareg also show good diesel economy too.

 

[ChrisUK]

I'm surprised that many Hybrids have low towing limits. e.g. CRV and Rav4 quote arround 800kg braked.

 

[otherclive]

I'm surprised that many Hybrids have low towing limits. e.g. CRV and Rav4 quote arround 800kg braked.

The new CRV PHEV can tow 1500 kg, whilst the self charging option is 750kg. RAV 4 PHEV is also 1500 kg.

 

[Oscarmax]

The latest Ford Kuga PHEV has now been uprated to 2100kg

 

[ChrisUK]

CRV, I didn't look across the columns. Big difference between PHEV and Hybrid then. But I was not planning to go to the big cost implications of PHEV or to have my drive dug up like my neighbours to lay the bigger cables required.

 

[otherclive]

CRV, I didn't look across the columns. Big difference between PHEV and Hybrid then. But I was not planning to go to the big cost implications of PHEV or to have my drive dug up like my neighbours to lay the bigger cables required.

My daughter had a supply to a charging unit and the cables came straight from her house consumer unit. It charged a Tesla Model Y overnight. Then when her son moved out the equipment was removed and reinstalled in his new house. Again no cabling along the drive the supply came from the house consumer unit.

 

[trevormonty]

CRV, I didn't look across the columns. Big difference between PHEV and Hybrid then. But I was not planning to go to the big cost implications of PHEV or to have my drive dug up like my neighbours to lay the bigger cables required.

A standard 13A outlet is more than enough to fully charge PHEV small battery (17.7kwh) overnight. 240vx13 =3.1kW x6hrs = 18.kwh.
For EVs more often than not a 13A outlet would be enough for average daily use given a 12hr charge ie 6pm -6am. = 35kwh or 200km Even after a long trip when arriving home with low battery a few nights with daily commutes should bring it backup to 100%. For rare occasions when full charge is needed next day, top it up at commercial charging station. The £1000s to purchase and install a 7KW charger buys a lot of commercial charges.

The issue with PHEV is small battery tends to get hammerd by regular deep discharges ie <20% which aren't for good batteries. Ideally want operate them in 30-100% range. EV battery has easier life as most commuters would only use <30-50% a day. Once PHEV battery degards enough owners have a very heavy HEV or cost of new battery which is $$$$ or alternatively tanks of petrol. Resale value on PHEV with stuffed battery is going be lot less normal ICE.

 

[otherclive]

A standard 13A outlet is more than enough to fully charge PHEV small battery (17.7kwh) overnight. 240vx13 =3.1kW x6hrs = 18.kwh.
For EVs more often than not a 13A outlet would be enough for average daily use given a 12hr charge ie 6pm -6am. = 35kwh or 200km Even after a long trip when arriving home with low battery a few nights with daily commutes should bring it backup to 100%. For rare occasions when full charge is needed next day, top it up at commercial charging station. The £1000s to purchase and install a 7KW charger buys a lot of commercial charges.

The issue with PHEV is small battery tends to get hammerd by regular deep discharges ie <20% which aren't for good batteries. Ideally want operate them in 30-100% range. EV battery has easier life as most commuters would only use <30-50% a day. Once PHEV battery degards enough owners have a very heavy HEV or cost of new battery which is $$$$ or alternatively tanks of petrol. Resale value on PHEV with stuffed battery is going be lot less normal ICE.

My grandsons 7kw charger plus installation cost around £1000 to supply and fit in our daughters house. He had a low tariff for overnight charging which he told me was very much lower than commercial chargers. He was quite lucky as he had his employer provide free charging for company cars. So the 7kw charger was primarily used for the 5 Series PHEV and the Tesla when required IE after a business trip or weekends/leave.

The charger and installation cost should be looked at as something that spans more than one car. My grandson and his partner are unlikely to go back to ICE so the amortised cost of charger and installation will span a number of cars, and can be moved when moving house. As he’s already done already.

 

[RogerL]

You won’t be buying the new Duster then. Can’t see your objection to hybrids. Does it include SC and PHEV? My daughter has a Corolla SC and it’s a cracking car halved her fuel bill compared to her previous 1.6 Focus auto.

Hybrids don't suit all usage patterns - they are more complex than "simple" petrol/diesel models so potentially more to go wrong - for some users the overall fuel consumption can be worse than a simple diesel.

A friend has a Toyota CR-V PHEV hybrid - once he's used up the electric, his fuel consumption is worse than my VW Touareg !!! He had a Prius before which was way better on fuel consumption.

 

[Tobes]

A standard 13A outlet is more than enough to fully charge PHEV small battery (17.7kwh) overnight. 240vx13 =3.1kW x6hrs = 18.kwh.
For EVs more often than not a 13A outlet would be enough for average daily use given a 12hr charge ie 6pm -6am. = 35kwh or 200km Even after a long trip when arriving home with low battery a few nights with daily commutes should bring it backup to 100%. For rare occasions when full charge is needed next day, top it up at commercial charging station. The £1000s to purchase and install a 7KW charger buys a lot of commercial charges.

The issue with PHEV is small battery tends to get hammerd by regular deep discharges ie <20% which aren't for good batteries. Ideally want operate them in 30-100% range. EV battery has easier life as most commuters would only use <30-50% a day. Once PHEV battery degards enough owners have a very heavy HEV or cost of new battery which is $$$$ or alternatively tanks of petrol. Resale value on PHEV with stuffed battery is going be lot less normal ICE.

All this is true, but one small caveat. Almost all 3 pin car chargers ("granny leads") supply 10A max (2.3kW) , not 13A (3kW) max. You _can_ get hold of 13A max variants, but they are few and far between.

PHEV batteries indeed do take more punishment than full BEVs as the full discharge cycle tends towards once (or twice) per day. However, they do mostly have active cooling systems and both floor and ceiling charge levels that the BMS manages. I.e. the usable battery size is perhaps only 85 to 90% of the actual battery size. PHEV batteries tend to be of the order of 10 to 20 kWh, where full BEV batteries tend to be order 50 to 80kWh (though some are much smaller and some much larger).

And of course, PHEV batteries have a lower duty cycle than "regular" hybrid batteries. They are only of the order 1kWh and can be charged and discharged many times on a single stop start journey round a town.

I do find it fascinating that full battery vehicles often come under attack for the possibility of degraded of failed batteries than can render the car worthless, when the same is true for hybrids where the risk of failure is significantly higher due to much heavier relative use. The reality is _neither_ hybrid or BEV are likely to suffer with failed batteries. And it's worth pointing out that for the vast majority of hybrids, whilst they have a "backup engine" in the form of the ICE, it is generally useless with a failed hybrid battery. Hybrid engines don't have a regular starter motor, but a starter/ generator that is run from the hybrid battery. Lose that and the ICE can't start...

 

[Oscarmax]

Hybrids don't suit all usage patterns - they are more complex than "simple" petrol/diesel models so potentially more to go wrong - for some users the overall fuel consumption can be worse than a simple diesel.

A friend has a Toyota CR-V PHEV hybrid - once he's used up the electric, his fuel consumption is worse than my VW Touareg !!! He had a Prius before which was way better on fuel consumption.

I did not now Toyota market a CR-V PHEV Hybrid, the Toyota RAV4 both hybrid and PHEV both achieve over 50 mpg with a depleted battery.

 

[RogerL]

I did not now Toyota market a CR-V PHEV Hybrid, the Toyota RAV4 both hybrid and PHEV both achieve over 50 mpg with a depleted battery.

My bad! It's the Toyota C-HR PHEV that my friend has - he only gets 30 mpg on a long motorway run once the battery has depleted.

 

[Oscarmax]

The Toyota C-HR PHEV is a totally new model it has only been out approximately a month, the press are achieving 48.8mpg in hybrid mode with a depleted battery, Toyota C-HR owners club owners are achieving 50 mpg plus with the outgoing model.

 

[trevormonty]

My bad! It's the Toyota C-HR PHEV that my friend has - he only gets 30 mpg on a long motorway run once the battery has depleted.

For long motorway runs HEV are of little benefit. Whole idea of HEV is to capture deceleration energy and also use EV mode at very slow speeds when ICE aren't efficient..
On back country roads where there is lot of slowing down for corners plus hills then HEV is of benefit. HEV really shine in city traffic.

NB once initial plugin charge depletes on PHEV it becomes a heavy HEV.

 

[ChrisUK]

A standard 13A outlet is more than enough to fully charge PHEV small battery (17.7kwh) overnight. 240vx13 =3.1kW x6hrs = 18.kwh.
For EVs more often than not a 13A outlet would be enough for average daily use given a 12hr charge ie 6pm -6am. = 35kwh or 200km Even after a long trip when arriving home with low battery a few nights with daily commutes should bring it backup to 100%. For rare occasions when full charge is needed next day, top it up at commercial charging station. The £1000s to purchase and install a 7KW charger buys a lot of commercial charges.

The issue with PHEV is small battery tends to get hammerd by regular deep discharges ie <20% which aren't for good batteries. Ideally want operate them in 30-100% range. EV battery has easier life as most commuters would only use <30-50% a day. Once PHEV battery degards enough owners have a very heavy HEV or cost of new battery which is $$$$ or alternatively tanks of petrol. Resale value on PHEV with stuffed battery is going be lot less normal ICE.

Thanks

 

[Oscarmax]

The so called granny charger which come with the vehicle are limited to 10 amps, a PHEV uses 70% of the battery, it never full discharges leaving 30% in reserve i.e Toyota RAV4 PHEV 18.1 kWh battery 14.3/14.5 kWh to full charge including losses.

For a Toyota RAV4 PHEV or Suzuki Across PHEV 220/230v x 10 amp = approximately 6.22 hours.

 

[trevormonty]

PHEV do have one big advantage for caravaning. Most have 220V outlet 1500W in case of Outlander, enough to power Caravan over night with heater running on low. In summer months a few days. This allows use of cheaper unpowered sites while still having full use of 220V appliances.

 

[Oscarmax]

Toyota RAV4 Hybrid owners are achieving 50 + mpg, RAV4 PHEV are seeing similar figure, our Suzuki Across ( a rebadge RAV4 PHEV) achieves 50 mpg even in the winter with a depleted battery, our 2020 Outlander PHEV was nearer 32/36 with a depleted battery.

On the motorway we used hybrid mode in cruise control you will be surprised how much energy is generated especial going down hill, on long journey 33% is generated, in stop start or slow A road it is more.

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet, originally I was a sceptic, however in 2020 we took the plunge and went for a 2020 Outlander PHEV we were pleasantly surprised, last year we changed to the Suzuki Across we were very impressed how technology has progressed, we would never go back to a diesel.

Next step is a full EV maybe a Hyundai Ionia 6 with the later 82kWh battery

 

[Buckman]

Toyota RAV4 Hybrid owners are achieving 50 + mpg, RAV4 PHEV are seeing similar figure, our Suzuki Across ( a rebadge RAV4 PHEV) achieves 50 mpg even in the winter with a depleted battery, our 2020 Outlander PHEV was nearer 32/36 with a depleted battery.

On the motorway we used hybrid mode in cruise control you will be surprised how much energy is generated especial going down hill, on long journey 33% is generated, in stop start or slow A road it is more.

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet, originally I was a sceptic, however in 2020 we took the plunge and went for a 2020 Outlander PHEV we were pleasantly surprised, last year we changed to the Suzuki Across we were very impressed how technology has progressed, we would never go back to a diesel.

Next step is a full EV maybe a Hyundai Ionia 6 with the later 82kWh battery

As a matter of interest do you know the main differences between the RAV and the Across of the same year? Thanks.

 

[Oscarmax]

The only real difference it does not have the Toyota Satnav (apparently is not that good) but has CarPlay so you can use Google or Apple Maps (I use my old Garmin) 7 year instead of 10 year warranty apart from some minor difference it the same car built on the same production line in the same factory in Japan.

 

[trevormonty]

The only real difference it does not have the Toyota Satnav (apparently is not that good) but has CarPlay so you can use Google or Apple Maps (I use my old Garmin) 7 year instead of 10 year warranty apart from some minor difference it the same car built on the same production line in the same factory in Japan.

To update maps for Vitara's SatNav was going cost £75. Google maps are free plus maps a nicer and its linked to ph contacts addresses. Lot new cars aren't offering SatNav anymore.